Who won the VP Debate?

[lostfan]

Ah the completely overbroad comeback. At least I was limiting it to this specific issue.

 

I'm just saying that liberals somehow think the two are consistent:

 

1) Obama won the first debate because he put together two complete sentences regarding international policy.

 

2) Palin lost big time even though she was supposed to come out drooling and wetting herself for 1.5 hours but didn't.

I'm not being overbroad. Look at what you're doing here. You are saying AHB is "liberals." There is no way to reply to that without making another sweeping generalization.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Yeah yeah, Gore was going to kill Bush, so was Kerry,

Last I checked, Gore and Kerry didnt have a chance to beat Bush is DARK RED states like NC, IN, VA, and CO.

This years is COMPLETELY different with a VERY different map. The fact that McCain is now concentrating on 2004 Bush states and largely conceding the Kerry states (PA being the exception) proves this is not good for McCain.

[StrangeSox]

In here, compared to many other places, nobody is going over the top with anything. Maybe a little overexcited at times, but that's to be expected.

 

Elsewhere, and you can easily apply this to supporters of ANY candidate, people are stupid, and pop off at the mouth.

 

 

In several other places I visit, the insane, illogical rhetoric is over the top. This is one of the few bastions of usually level-headed discussion.

Edited October 3, 2008 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Ah the completely overbroad comeback. At least I was limiting it to this specific issue.

 

I'm just saying that liberals somehow think the two are consistent:

 

1) Obama won the first debate because he put together two complete sentences regarding international policy.

 

2) Palin lost big time even though she was supposed to come out drooling and wetting herself for 1.5 hours but didn't.

 

[lostfan]

 

In several other places I visit, the insane, illogical rhetoric is over the top. This is one of the few bastions of usually level-headed discussion.

There are only a handful of places I'll go where people of different political views go back and forth to discuss politics, and even then, there are people that go overboard. Whenever I see a response like that (for example if I say something positive and someone responds to me with an irrelevant tangent about Jeremiah Wright) I just ignore it. It's much easier that way.

[Texsox]

And I'm pissed that marriage is even regulated at all by the government. Marriage is a religious idea--civil unions are the legal idea. Let's leave marriage to the church.

 

That probably should have been better vetted 225 years ago when the whole what is marriage in the US started. And Churches really do not regulate marriages. You can get married with or without a religious entity involved. Atheists are married all the time in this country. I do not think it is right to take away marriage from those people who are not religious and offer them the only option of some newly created PC version of what their parents and grandparents had.

[Jenksismyhero]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/20..._obama-225.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ma...bama_vs_mccain/

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

http://pollster.com/

 

Don't forget that McCain has pulled out of Michigan.

 

Lol, I love how you post stats that show for the last 3 months Obama's lead in overall polls has stayed consistent (anywhere from 4-7%) and the electoral map has stayed roughly the same (except for the bump for mccain after the RNC). I see nothing in those first to links that show Obama "seperating" from McCain.

 

Again, I'm not saying Obama won't win, or that he won't win easily. I just feel it's a little premature to concede the election in the first week of October. Look at recent history in elections - polls and surveys aren't exactly accurate come election day.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I don't see posts in here saying any of those things.

 

Palin isn't assertive anyway - she asserts nothing.

 

The only one of those three things I've seen brought up here is McCain's age. And MOST of us aren't saying its an issue of his ability to lead - its his ability to stay alive. And that is a real issue to consider. Not a dealbreaker IMO, but, at his age, it does amplify the importantance of his VP candidate, who is just terrible.

 

so, the way Palin talks (albeit overdone) hasn't been made fun of....which believe it or not, millions of americans talk in funny sounding ways.

 

And "his ability to stay alive" is a joke...anyone could die or a million reasons. He's old. With that logic, the fact that Nancy Pelosi is two major tragedies away from being President is equally scary.

 

 

And just to be clear, I'm probably voting for Obama...I really don't know.

 

The problem I have with each side:

 

Obama - For all the change talk, he's doing the same kind of politics that we're used to. If the campaigning sidetracks his ideals, what's going to happen when he's in office? I like the change, Democrats have some great ideas, not all of them, but I believe 100% we need to do everything we can to get our infrastructure into the 21st century and devote 24 hours a day to commercializing wind, solar, and alternative energies to the masses.

 

McCain - Tied a little too much to bad policies, not all of them, but some. The country needs a new direction.

[Jenksismyhero]

ok fair enough. I'll change it to "liberals on this board."

[HuskyCaucasian]

I see nothing in those first to links that show Obama "seperating" from McCain.

I'll post this again incase you missed it.

 

If the election were held today:

 

Edited October 3, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[lostfan]

Lol, I love how you post stats that show for the last 3 months Obama's lead in overall polls has stayed consistent (anywhere from 4-7%) and the electoral map has stayed roughly the same (except for the bump for mccain after the RNC). I see nothing in those first to links that show Obama "seperating" from McCain.

If the national poll approaches double digits, at that point you're talking about ridiculous Reagan over Mondale type pwnage. Anything over 5% is a relatively easy victory. Day to day fluctuations in national polls are just there for trends, nothing more.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I'll post this again incase you missed it.

 

If the election were held today:

 

 

Plenty of time for it to swing either way.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'll post this again incase you missed it.

 

If the election were held today:

 

That's today. What'll happen next week? Or the week after? Am I overlooking the graph that goes up and down for both candidates over time?

[Rex Kickass]

Ah the completely overbroad comeback. At least I was limiting it to this specific issue.

 

I'm just saying that liberals somehow think the two are consistent:

 

1) Obama won the first debate because he put together two complete sentences regarding international policy.

 

2) Palin lost big time even though she was supposed to come out drooling and wetting herself for 1.5 hours but didn't.

 

 

Obama won because he looked calm and unflappable on stage. McCain on the other hand had problems making eye contact and came off as condescending. He held his own on international policy questions, at time providing a better argument than McCain. This was McCain's field of expertise.

 

Palin won given the expectations set by the McCain camp, and not making any really stupid mistakes. But Biden also did well, and also won. If there is a situation where you can have two winners in a debate, you had it here. I think Palin took the first half of the debate fairly convincingly, but Biden scored on international issues (which was expected) and felt really really sincere when he talked about his family (which was not.)

 

People seem to connect more with the Obama/Biden ticket this year. This doesn't take anything away from McCain/Palin. The truth is, that this year just isn't their time. Unfortunately for McCain, his time was 2000.

[Soxy]

ok fair enough. I'll change it to "liberals on this board."

That's bulls*** too, and I think you know that.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Plenty of time for it to swing either way.

 

 

wait...

 

 

that's what she said.

[lostfan]

That's today. What'll happen next week? Or the week after? Am I overlooking the graph that goes up and down for both candidates over time?

Obama hasn't really lost his electoral lead since the general election started. It dipped into "toss-up" territory for about a week after the GOP convention but his margin has about doubled in the last couple of weeks.

[Soxy]

That probably should have been better vetted 225 years ago when the whole what is marriage in the US started. And Churches really do not regulate marriages. You can get married with or without a religious entity involved. Atheists are married all the time in this country. I do not think it is right to take away marriage from those people who are not religious and offer them the only option of some newly created PC version of what their parents and grandparents had.

They would still have that option--but in a religious ceremony.

 

It's not PC, it's about the government NOT regulating sacraments/religious stuff.

[Jenksismyhero]

Obama won because he looked calm and unflappable on stage. McCain on the other hand had problems making eye contact and came off as condescending. He held his own on international policy questions, at time providing a better argument than McCain. This was McCain's field of expertise.

 

Palin won given the expectations set by the McCain camp, and not making any really stupid mistakes. But Biden also did well, and also won. If there is a situation where you can have two winners in a debate, you had it here. I think Palin took the first half of the debate fairly convincingly, but Biden scored on international issues (which was expected) and felt really really sincere when he talked about his family (which was not.)

 

People seem to connect more with the Obama/Biden ticket this year. This doesn't take anything away from McCain/Palin. The truth is, that this year just isn't their time. Unfortunately for McCain, his time was 2000.

 

I disagree, as I feel McCain come off as someone with a lot of experience and Obama came off as someone who has talked a lot about the issues but hasn't really done anything with them (not going to Iraq or meeting with military leaders was a pretty big point to me). On top of that, international issues accounted for probably 25% of that debate, so I feel it's a little unfair to say that it was McCain's debate with his field of expertise. Moroever, I again ask why is it that Palin lost when it was clear that Biden was going to blow her away but didnt? I still don't think she'd make a good Prez, let alone a good VP, but she exceeded expectations in that debate. If we're going to give Obama props for making good arguments and at least being equal to McCain, why not say the same for Palin?

 

And I agree that 2000 was McCain's year and that Obama connects a lot more with people. But I'd prefer someone who is going to solve the countries problems, not someone I feel a connection with. I feel a connection with Jessica Alba. That doesn't mean I want her investing 2-300 billion dollars (dollars which we don't have) in a national healthcare system run by the government.

[Jenksismyhero]

That's bulls*** too, and I think you know that.

 

Look at the polls of the board 19-10 Obama, 26-8 Biden.

 

 

[Soxy]

Look at the polls of the board 19-10 Obama, 26-8 Biden.

So, some of the liberals on this board (although a fair share of Moderates also voted for Biden).

[Soxy]

Look at the polls of the board 19-10 Obama, 26-8 Biden.

And keep in mind that 25 people said they were voting for Obama--so not all of those people said that Obama won.

[daa84]

When people talk about Palin being close to the White House it isnt because of assassination concerns, its because of his age. McCain isnt the candidate the Secret Service is worried about protecting IMO.

oh certainly i know that...mccain is 72 with history of skin cancer, i was just making the statement to emphasize the fact that i think palin is a mope

[lostfan]

Look at the polls of the board 19-10 Obama, 26-8 Biden.

That's some pretty awful logic, IMO.

 

I voted "tie" for the first debate and "Biden" for the second one. Expectations played zero factor in how I voted or else I would've said Palin won.

[Rex Kickass]

I said people watching baseball won, for the record.