Do you think KW would undo the Chris Young trade now?

[caulfield12]

Knowing what he knows now?

 

Would the White Sox be in better shape with Chris Young for the next five years than Brian Anderson in CF...? Do you consider the trade to be Young/Vizcaino/Carter for Vazquez, money and Carlos Quentin (one of the reasons Quentin was dealt was due to Young's 2007 season)?

 

Young's salary (because of the pre-emptive five year deal he signed) for the following years: $1.75 million in 2009, $3.25 million in 2010, $5 million in 2011, $7 million in 2012 and $8.5 million in 2013. Can we bet a better CFer for the same amount of money?

 

Can we consider the trade a success, because we made the playoffs with Javier on the team? Can the D-Backs also consider it a success already, after last season?

 

How much did not having Vizcaino on the team hurt in 06?

 

I almost got the feeling that KW wanted to make this trade work so badly, that he gave Javier another contract, which is now looking quite questionable...and I guess we could say the same thing for Contreras, although Jose's deal was also a little bit about "reward" for 05/06 also.

 

Personally, because we've had such poor luck developing homegrown players that have major league impacts, I really would have liked to hold onto Young. Yes, he strikes out too much. Yes, he doesn't have a very good arm. Yes, he has a low OBP. The closest player we've had (recently) to Young was Mike Cameron, and we also traded him, interestingly enough.

 

You have to go back to Buehrle/Crede/Rowand, then Ordonez/Carlos Lee....and Ray Durham, that's about the sum total of players we've developed in our system the last 15 years, in terms of players that have had huge impacts on the major league roster.

Edited October 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Well it was nice having a break from this topic for the short while it lasted...

[Jordan4life_2007]

Never liked the trade from day 1. I forced myself to like it becaue we were coming off a World Series win and I refused to question anything Kenny did. Young had a s***ty year. But I'd take his youth/upside over Javy any day of the week. And I'm not just saying that because he almost single handedly cost us a trip to the playoffs, and is the main reason we're down 0-1 right now.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Jordan4life

[klaus kinski]

No he wouldnt-Vasquez-even when shakey gave us innings and wasnt far from break even

[caulfield12]

Anyone pretty happy about right now we weren't able to sign Fukudome? That one definitely went KW's way. If Piniella has a doghouse this late in the season, Kosiuke definitely just found his way there.

[lostfan]

I was going to reply but I just don't feel like having this conversation again.

[LittleHurt05]

Anyone pretty happy about right now we weren't able to sign Fukudome? That one definitely went KW's way. If Piniella has a doghouse this late in the season, Kosiuke definitely just found his way there.

 

Thank you very much Jermaine Dye, Shingo Takatsu, and Tadahito Iguchi for keeping up from signing Fukudome. KW offered him the most money, but he wanted to only play RF and play on a team where no other Japanese player had played before. I was pissed we didn't get him to play center but turns out we got lucky he didn't sign with us.

 

And about the CBY trade, Javy is our 4th best starter. Compare him to other #4 starters in the league, and I think it is definitely good we have him, and he still takes the ball every five days, even if it seems to be reluctantly. We win one game in the Metrodome, and then we get to set up our rotation, and then he doesnt have to pitch until Game 4, it was the Sox fault he had to pitch game 1. And I have no doubt Young has the potential to be a star, but right now he would be the last thing this team needs in the lineup, another guy who doesn't get on base very often and seems to constantly swing for the fences.

 

[caulfield12]

Thank you very much Jermaine Dye, Shingo Takatsu, and Tadahito Iguchi for keeping up from signing Fukudome. KW offered him the most money, but he wanted to only play RF and play on a team where no other Japanese player had played before. I was pissed we didn't get him to play center but turns out we got lucky he didn't sign with us.

 

And about the CBY trade, Javy is our 4th best starter. Compare him to other #4 starters in the league, and I think it is definitely good we have him, and he still takes the ball every five days, even if it seems to be reluctantly. We win one game in the Metrodome, and then we get to set up our rotation, and then he doesnt have to pitch until Game 4, it was the Sox fault he had to pitch game 1. And I have no doubt Young has the potential to be a star, but right now he would be the last thing this team needs in the lineup, another guy who doesn't get on base very often and seems to constantly swing for the fences.

 

 

But, if KW can come up with Danks and Floyd, who's to say he can't find two better options with $20 million plus that would be going to Vazquez and Contreras?

 

We are so lucky to have Floyd and Danks at reasonable payroll levels, they are the ONLY things that make Vazquez and Contreras and Buehrle a possibility in the rotation. That said, we had about $55 million sunk in Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland and El Duque...which is just TOO much for any team, except for the top 2-3 payrolls in MLB.

 

We can rationalize that Vazquez is okay as an innings-eater and 4th/5th starter, but at $11.5 million, there simply are too many better and more logical options out there, whether through trade or FA.

 

 

[Harry Chappas]

I have no reason to believe that Chris Young will be a better MLB player than Brian Anderson.

 

 

[BlackBetsy]

But, if KW can come up with Danks and Floyd, who's to say he can't find two better options with $20 million plus that would be going to Vazquez and Contreras?

 

We are so lucky to have Floyd and Danks at reasonable payroll levels, they are the ONLY things that make Vazquez and Contreras and Buehrle a possibility in the rotation. That said, we had about $55 million sunk in Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland and El Duque...which is just TOO much for any team, except for the top 2-3 payrolls in MLB.

 

We can rationalize that Vazquez is okay as an innings-eater and 4th/5th starter, but at $11.5 million, there simply are too many better and more logical options out there, whether through trade or FA.

+4. I love it when you analyze.

 

Free up $11.5 million for Vazquez, $4.5 million for Uribe, $8 million for Cabrera and $5 million for Crede and you've got $29 million. If insurance pays off 60% of Contreras, you've got $35 million. Even with raises to folks like Jenks, Swisher etc., the Sox would have a bunch of money to spend in the offseason if they wanted to keep the budget flat (I'm assuming they do).

 

I think the Sox will have to pay Thome his full salary next year (i.e., he gets a $8 million increase from the payroll perspective as Philly will not contribute another $8 million to the option year), so my guess is that they have probably $20 million or so to throw at free agents if they dumb Vazquez, Uribe, Crede & Cabrera. That will land them pretty much any of the big names on the market, or even two lesser names. Think Orlando Hudson at $8 million or so and Jon Garland at $11 million.

[caulfield12]

+4. I love it when you analyze.

 

Free up $11.5 million for Vazquez, $4.5 million for Uribe, $8 million for Cabrera and $5 million for Crede and you've got $29 million. If insurance pays off 60% of Contreras, you've got $35 million. Even with raises to folks like Jenks, Swisher etc., the Sox would have a bunch of money to spend in the offseason if they wanted to keep the budget flat (I'm assuming they do).

 

I think the Sox will have to pay Thome his full salary next year (i.e., he gets a $8 million increase from the payroll perspective as Philly will not contribute another $8 million to the option year), so my guess is that they have probably $20 million or so to throw at free agents if they dumb Vazquez, Uribe, Crede & Cabrera. That will land them pretty much any of the big names on the market, or even two lesser names. Think Orlando Hudson at $8 million or so and Jon Garland at $11 million.

 

 

1) Who would be interested in Vazquez, assuming we basically give him away to the top bidder?

2) If we let Uribe go, is Getz then our "supersub" or do we find another player through trade or FA? Bring Ozuna back? Find another Cuban, lol?

3) Is there serious consideration being given to either Anderson or Fields ever being regular players for the Sox again?

4) Would we really want Garland back? Would he even want to come back?

5) Would anyone be interested in signing Freddy Garcia again...if his contract was almost 100% incentives-based?

6) What if Cabrera is offered arbitration and accepts it? What then, lol? It will be like Kiffin and Al Davis! Doubt that happens, though.

7) Who's the starting 3B if you shed Uribe and sign Hudson and a pitcher?

8) Where do you put Ramirez next year? SS seems the most logical, since it's easier to find a 2B more cheaply and his offensive potential is a huge net plus coming from that position.

 

 

[letsgoarow]

I have no reason to believe that Chris Young will be a better MLB player than Brian Anderson.

 

How about his 32 home runs last year?

[SoxFan562004]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/youngch04.shtml

 

it's a wash trade as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, you save money with Young, but the Sox are a top 10 payroll team, so Javy's contract won't cripple them. Javy is fine as a 4-5 starter and Young is an average offensive player with plus defense

[Leonard Zelig]

1) Who would be interested in Vazquez, assuming we basically give him away to the top bidder?

2) If we let Uribe go, is Getz then our "supersub" or do we find another player through trade or FA? Bring Ozuna back? Find another Cuban, lol?

3) Is there serious consideration being given to either Anderson or Fields ever being regular players for the Sox again?

4) Would we really want Garland back? Would he even want to come back?

5) Would anyone be interested in signing Freddy Garcia again...if his contract was almost 100% incentives-based?

6) What if Cabrera is offered arbitration and accepts it? What then, lol? It will be like Kiffin and Al Davis! Doubt that happens, though.

7) Who's the starting 3B if you shed Uribe and sign Hudson and a pitcher?

8) Where do you put Ramirez next year? SS seems the most logical, since it's easier to find a 2B more cheaply and his offensive potential is a huge net plus coming from that position.

 

I am just trying to enjoy the fact that the Sox are still playing baseball. There will be several months to worry about all that other stuff soon enough.

[Steve9347]

Oh my F*CKING GOD get the F*CK OVER IT!

 

Do you think AZ would undo the Quentin deal?

 

Do you think TEX would undo the Danks deal?

 

Do you think PHI would undo the Floyd deal?

 

Do you think some teams might have ponied up a bit more dough for Alexei?

 

GET OVER IT.

[BlackBetsy]

1) Who would be interested in Vazquez, assuming we basically give him away to the top bidder?

2) If we let Uribe go, is Getz then our "supersub" or do we find another player through trade or FA? Bring Ozuna back? Find another Cuban, lol?

3) Is there serious consideration being given to either Anderson or Fields ever being regular players for the Sox again?

4) Would we really want Garland back? Would he even want to come back?

5) Would anyone be interested in signing Freddy Garcia again...if his contract was almost 100% incentives-based?

6) What if Cabrera is offered arbitration and accepts it? What then, lol? It will be like Kiffin and Al Davis! Doubt that happens, though.

7) Who's the starting 3B if you shed Uribe and sign Hudson and a pitcher?

8) Where do you put Ramirez next year? SS seems the most logical, since it's easier to find a 2B more cheaply and his offensive potential is a huge net plus coming from that position.

(1) I'm assuming the usual suspects, which have to be East Coast b/c of his no-trade clause/he wants to be as close to Puerto Rico as possible: Washington (old franchise, NL), Philadelphia, Atlanta, Baltimore, Florida (if they want to take on salary thinking they can make a run), Pittsburgh. My thought is that if a team takes his entire salary, they can have him for a Lance Broadway-type prospect.

 

(2) Getz becomes the supersub. But supersubs are cheap on the market.

(3) Anderson, no. I think Fields is one option in spring training.

(4) I think we would. They guy is a winner, although he may want to stay near home in So. Cal. Don't know what the Angels think about him. I don't think bridges were burned with Garland.

(5) I would...but he has to have a 92 mph fastball. He can compete for half a season at 88 mph, but the league will catch up with him.

(6) Cabrera is SOOOO gone. No way he accepts arbitration. He's a Dodger or a Red Sox or somewhere else next year.

(7) Fields probably going into the season with trade help on the way - you could pick up an Adrian Beltre mid season on the cheap.

(8) Shortstop without hesitation.

 

Lineup would look like this:

 

Hudson

AJ

Quentin

Thome

Dye

Konerko

Ramirez

Swisher

Fields

 

Rotation

Buehrle

Floyd

Danks

Garland

Richard

[caulfield12]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/youngch04.shtml

 

it's a wash trade as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, you save money with Young, but the Sox are a top 10 payroll team, so Javy's contract won't cripple them. Javy is fine as a 4-5 starter and Young is an average offensive player with plus defense

 

 

He was the #12 MLB CFer in terms of OPS, and that doesn't really take into account/factor in stolen bases and his defensive abilities (minus the arm). And this was admittedly a downer/disappointing season for Young and the D-Backs.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...ull&minpa=0

[Texsox]

I don't think Kenny worries about trades already made. He makes new decisions based on what the current situation is. If the decision doesn't work out, he analyzes what could have been done different, if anything, and how to avoid the same mistake down the road, then moves on.

[SoxFan562004]

He was the #12 MLB CFer in terms of OPS, and that doesn't really take into account/factor in stolen bases and his defensive abilities (minus the arm). And this was admittedly a downer/disappointing season for Young and the D-Backs.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...ull&minpa=0

He had his highest OPS+ and 4.8 RC/G. It's a small sample obviously, but he didn't have a down year for him.

[caulfield12]

Who would you look at for fifth starter next year? I'm already penciling Richard in at #4, lol.

 

1) Broadway

2) Carrasco

3) Horacio Ramirez

4) Vazquez

5) FA

6) Trade

7) Poreda

8) Egbert

9) Haeger

10) Sisco

11) MacDougal

[SoxFan562004]

Who would you look at for fifth starter next year? I'm already penciling Richard in at #4, lol.

 

1) Broadway

2) Carrasco

3) Horacio Ramirez

4) Vazquez

5) FA

6) Trade

7) Poreda

8) Egbert

9) Haeger

10) Sisco

11) MacDougal

I don't think there's anything wrong with having Javy as 4 or 5. He will eat innings and, during the regular season, give you at least a 50/50 shot at winning. He costs a lot of money, but the Sox are a big payroll team and it's a done deal anyway, so try and get some value out of it

[WCSox]

With a lineup of Quentin, Dye, Thome, Konerko, Swisher, and Griffey, my answer would be no. The Sox don't struggle to score run. While Young would certainly be a nice addition, they're not in desperate need of a player like him.

 

After Freddy fell apart and Jose's myriad of injuries, a veteran middle-of-the-rotation pitcher was a necessity. Even if the guy bites it in pressure situations, he solidifies the rotation during the regular season and helps them GET to the playoffs.

 

[Texsox]

I don't think there's anything wrong with having Javy as 4 or 5. He will eat innings and, during the regular season, give you at least a 50/50 shot at winning. He costs a lot of money, but the Sox are a big payroll team and it's a done deal anyway, so try and get some value out of it

 

As a fifth starter in a five man rotation he would have been pitching on regular rest and possible not starting a playoff game. I'd like that situation.

[clyons]

I don't think there's anything wrong with having Javy as 4 or 5. He will eat innings and, during the regular season, give you at least a 50/50 shot at winning. He costs a lot of money, but the Sox are a big payroll team and it's a done deal anyway, so try and get some value out of it

 

I'm a Javy hater (because I foolishly keep expecting so much more from him), but I'm also good with keeping him as an expensive 4 or 5. The White Sox know that he is not a top of the rotation guy, but were forced by circumstances to pitch him in Game 1. Sure he crapped back the lead, but he kept us in the game. Unfortunately, that's all you can hope for from the guy, or for that matter, any 4 or 5.

[DBAHO]

Yes I think he would.

 

But consider this. Young's OBP over the past 2 seasons has been .295 and .315.

 

That's not exactly going to help us majorly is it.

 

Swisher had a terrible year with the bat and he still had an OBP of .332 and 2 more HR's than Young this season.