fathom Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (sox1844 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 02:03 AM) I don't get what the big deal is. OC played to his career averages, and we had a much better year than anyone expected. Good deal. Lets move on. He was brought in for situational hitting and clubhouse leadership. I think we can all agree he didn't live up to expectations there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 He was completely overrated and I for one will not miss him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox1844 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:05 PM) He was brought in for situational hitting and clubhouse leadership. I think we can all agree he didn't live up to expectations there. Um, I think he was brought in for more than those 2 things. And you can't really speak on clubhouse leadership can you? From where I'm sitting, what I hear and what I see are two totally opposite things, I tend to believe my eyes more than what I hear from losers like Cowley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 09:05 PM) He was brought in for situational hitting and clubhouse leadership. I think we can all agree he didn't live up to expectations there. RISP: .261/.289/.343/.633 (s***) RISP & 2 out: .208/.278/.264/.542 (EMBARRASSING) Close & Late: .239/.283/.315/.598 (DREADFUL) Tie Game: .242/.299/.290/.589 (HORRIBLE) His situational hitting was a f***ing joke. Coincidentally, Jon Garland had the 6th lowest VORP of any starter with at least 180 IP this season, bump that up to 186 IP and he's #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock4Life Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 i don' like him. i would much rather have garland as the number 3 starter, uribe at short, and crede/fields at 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Kalapse @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:24 PM) RISP: .261/.289/.343/.633 (s***) RISP & 2 out: .208/.278/.264/.542 (EMBARRASSING) Close & Late: .239/.283/.315/.598 (DREADFUL) Tie Game: .242/.299/.290/.589 (HORRIBLE) His situational hitting was a f***ing joke. Coincidentally, Jon Garland had the 6th lowest VORP of any starter with at least 180 IP this season, bump that up to 186 IP and he's #1. How the hell does that work? Garland almost put up an ERA of 5 and his ERA was like 6 in the second half. I don't think anybody can complain that the team traded Garland. Trading Garland got Floyd into the rotation and he won 17 games. Edited October 7, 2008 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 09:36 PM) How the hell does that work? Garland almost put up an ERA of 5 and his ERA was like 6 in the second half. I don't think anybody can complain that the team traded Garland. Trading Garland got Floyd into the rotation and he won 17 games. Well, you want your VORP to be as high as possible (see: Cliff Lee: 75.0, John Danks: 52.8 and Carlos Silva -17) so yeah, Jon Garland's value over a replacement level player was only 7.6 this past season which is just about as bad as it gets for a guy who pitches as many innings as he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 07:32 PM) A guy who is often seen loosening up the boys, dancing with other players before games, and the first to celebrate another's home run. He shows more passion than most of the rest of the team combined. It's a lack of that that we often complain about from other players. What a cancer. ^^^ That. I'd love to see the looks on some of the posters who s*** on him when they learn he's loved by his teammates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 07:57 PM) FWIW, there are people on here with inside info on how hated OC is. I'd love to hear from those people. No one I know feels that way. Especially JD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox1844 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (Steff @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) I'd love to hear from those people. No one I know feels that way. Especially JD. Right on Steff. I hate it when people say things like that and don't back it up. From everything I've seen, his teammates love him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Interesting to look at the teams that don't have protected picks. The Dodgers, Cardinals, Blue Jays, and Twins could all be options for OC. 1. Nationals (59-102) 2. Mariners (61-101) 3. Padres (63-99) 4. Pirates (67-95) 5. Orioles (68-93) 6. Giants (72-90) 7. Braves (72-90) 8. Reds (74-88) 9. Tigers (74-88) 10. Nationals (compensation for failure to sign 2008 first-rounder Aaron Crow) 11. Rockies (74-88) 12. Royals (75-87) 13. Athletics (75-86) 14. Rangers (79-83) 15. Indians (81-81) 16. Diamondbacks (82-80) Unprotected First-Round Picks 17. Dodgers (84-78) 18. Marlins (84-77) 19. Cardinals (86-76) 20. Blue Jays (86-76) 21. Astros (86-75) 22. Mariners (compensaton for failure to sign 2008 first-rounder Joshua Fields) 23. Twins (88-75) 24. White Sox (89-74) 25. Mets (89-73) 26. Yankees (89-73) 27. Brewers (90-72) 28. Phillies (92-70) 29. Red Sox (95-67) 30. Rays (97-65) 31. Yankees (compensation for failure to sign 2008 first-rounder Gerrit Cole) 32. Cubs (97-64) 33. Angels (100-62) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I love his fire but I also think he's pretty much a dick. I just hope that we get a 1st round pick for him and not a 2nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrown85 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 So at first glance I thought this said good riddance CQ i was like are these people kidding? Either way i'll be a happy camper when oc is gone...him and his oversized jerseys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 One of our problems was we didn't have a great leadoff hitter. Maybe we'd like him better if he batted lower. I won't miss him but I wouldn't tear my hair out if we signed him for one year. I can't imagine him getting some megabuck deal somewhere. But maybe teams are that crazy. Detroit wasn't crazy about Renteria either, right? I'm not a big OC fan that is for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:39 PM) Well, you want your VORP to be as high as possible (see: Cliff Lee: 75.0, John Danks: 52.8 and Carlos Silva -17) so yeah, Jon Garland's value over a replacement level player was only 7.6 this past season which is just about as bad as it gets for a guy who pitches as many innings as he does. yeah that's me forgetting how VORP works and misunderstanding what you were saying so you do agree with my statement about trading Garland, regardless of your feelings of OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 07:42 PM) Why is OC gettinng singled out? He's one of the few veteran players on this team who actually lived up to their career averages. fathom's had some weird psychotic hate for him all season and I can't quite understand it. You mean the same veteran, fundamentally sound hitter, that went 2/16 in the ALDS? Swinging at garbage pitches? Good riddance. P.S. His numbers with RISP, RISP with 2 outs, LATE AND CLOSE, etc., were all BRUTAL. He's also a weak .242 career hitter in the playoffs.... Edited October 7, 2008 by CQMVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Joe Cowley was just on the radio, and said that after some members of the Sox organization heard the OC to Twins rumors last week, they told Cowley they'll be happy to drive him to Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) people here are just sour on OC b/c he's a rental player. you train yourself early not to get attached. the contract negotiation and the scioscia thing are these minor little details that become huge fodder for building this horrible impression of him in your mind. no he's not the most noble guy; few athletes are. plenty of guys have that smug attitude and have been beloved by the fans. frankly, race plays a factor as well. a white guy can have that smugness and it's seen as tough, not as 'overly brash' Edited October 7, 2008 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I've spent a lot of time in Cartagena. Cabrera is like a god there....he paved all the streets in the neighborhood where he grew up and he built a luxurious high rise apartment near the Caribbean for his parents and him to live during the offseason, when he's not in Miami or the States. I actually considered renting a unit from OC...just down the street from where Diego Maradona had gastric bypass surgery, lol. Now Renteria, he hates OC. And vice-versa. Edgar's from Baranquilla, hometown of Shakira and Sofia Vergara (google her, she's foxy). I worked with Renteria's brother to put together a baseball camp while I was down there in 05-06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 You know what I found odd, I sit in a part of the park where you can see the Sox dugout. OC keeps all of his stuff down in the corner by himself, helmet, bat, etc. I found this odd, I am not sure why, I just did. OC kind of grew on me though. He seemd ot have Jose Valentin type mental lapses and made some stupid plays. I am really neutral on him and realize there may not be better alternatives. He seemd to be a guy that had a personality defect and may have been misunderstood. While I know nothing of his psyche he just seemed to be different in his personality. Sprinting out of the dugout on the Ramirez slam was cool and flew in the face of all I thought I knew of him. He seemed kind of like an outcast or someone that has trouble fitting in with people......he also seemed to be.....not sure how to put it......a little slow. Although that is simply from watching him on tv so I could be way off base. Boston gave up on him in a heartbeat so I am not sure what to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 11:06 AM) You know what I found odd, I sit in a part of the park where you can see the Sox dugout. OC keeps all of his stuff down in the corner by himself, helmet, bat, etc. I found this odd, I am not sure why, I just did. OC kind of grew on me though. He seemd ot have Jose Valentin type mental lapses and made some stupid plays. I am really neutral on him and realize there may not be better alternatives. He seemd to be a guy that had a personality defect and may have been misunderstood. While I know nothing of his psyche he just seemed to be different in his personality. Sprinting out of the dugout on the Ramirez slam was cool and flew in the face of all I thought I knew of him. He seemed kind of like an outcast or someone that has trouble fitting in with people......he also seemed to be.....not sure how to put it......a little slow. Although that is simply from watching him on tv so I could be way off base. Boston gave up on him in a heartbeat so I am not sure what to make. Well the reason Boston gave up on him was because apparently he was a party animal in the Kyle Orton-Chris Duhon kind of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I didn't like OC and I tend to like everybody on the Sox one way or the other. So long. Won't miss him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 11:06 AM) You know what I found odd, I sit in a part of the park where you can see the Sox dugout. OC keeps all of his stuff down in the corner by himself, helmet, bat, etc. I found this odd, I am not sure why, I just did. OC kind of grew on me though. He seemd ot have Jose Valentin type mental lapses and made some stupid plays. I am really neutral on him and realize there may not be better alternatives. He seemd to be a guy that had a personality defect and may have been misunderstood. While I know nothing of his psyche he just seemed to be different in his personality. Sprinting out of the dugout on the Ramirez slam was cool and flew in the face of all I thought I knew of him. He seemed kind of like an outcast or someone that has trouble fitting in with people......he also seemed to be.....not sure how to put it......a little slow. Although that is simply from watching him on tv so I could be way off base. Boston gave up on him in a heartbeat so I am not sure what to make. Since baseball began, all the Hispanic players (especially those who have trouble with English or have just arrived to play baseball) have bonded closely on every team, whether it's the majors or minors. I just think the other Hispanic players have a huge amount of pride and "brotherhood" for each other to see another succeeding, especially someone like Alexei, who seems to be a nice guy on and off the field. It was this way in 2005 with the Sox and always will be...these players usually come from poverty-stricken backgrounds and they can relate to each so much better than players from other countries can...and when their quotes are misinterpreted or "phonetically" captured or the English isn't corrected (this happens to Guillen constantly), they tend to rally around each other, an island in the middle of the team. He's not slow in a John Rocker type of way...he's just someone who has learned English as his second language, and is not always as comfortable using it or speaking with the press due to incidents in the past that soured him on dealing with the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I grew very tired of watching him make bad first pitch outs this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 10:18 AM) Well the reason Boston gave up on him was because apparently he was a party animal in the Kyle Orton-Chris Duhon kind of way. So he was a neck-beard douchebag that tried to get free drinks at the bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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