Good riddance OC

[jenksycat]

people here are just sour on OC b/c he's a rental player. you train yourself early not to get attached. the contract negotiation and the scioscia thing are these minor little details that become huge fodder for building this horrible impression of him in your mind.

 

no he's not the most noble guy; few athletes are.

 

plenty of guys have that smug attitude and have been beloved by the fans.

 

 

 

 

frankly, race plays a factor as well. a white guy can have that smugness and it's seen as tough, not as 'overly brash'

 

Not really. I hated him because he seems like a jackass. Name one "white" guy on the team with that same attitude and I'll hate him too. The only exception given to guy like that is if he is an amazing player, which OC showed he is not.

[Paulie4Pres]

people here are just sour on OC b/c he's a rental player. you train yourself early not to get attached. the contract negotiation and the scioscia thing are these minor little details that become huge fodder for building this horrible impression of him in your mind.

 

no he's not the most noble guy; few athletes are.

 

plenty of guys have that smug attitude and have been beloved by the fans.

 

 

 

 

frankly, race plays a factor as well. a white guy can have that smugness and it's seen as tough, not as 'overly brash'

 

No, I think most people are sour on OC because he's EXTREMELY overrated. His clutch hitting is atrocious, his playoff numbers are bad, and his defense isn't even GOOD. He's an AVERAGE SS. We did NOT see a gold glove SS this year. Far from it, actually. He's also a "me first" type of player, which doesn't help the matter.

[santo=dorf]

Joe Cowley was just on the radio, and said that after some members of the Sox organization heard the OC to Twins rumors last week, they told Cowley they'll be happy to drive him to Minnesota.

That's just because they love him so much and want to save him the gas money.

[Buehrle>Wood]

his defense isn't even GOOD. He's an AVERAGE SS.

 

He topped the AL in Zone rating and range factor and was 4th in fielding percentage. That is just a lie.

[santo=dorf]

He topped the AL in Zone rating and range factor and was 4th in fielding percentage. That is just a lie.

You've just quoted three of the worst fielding stats in the sketchy world of defensive metrics.

 

All you told me is that he has a lot of balls hit to him (The Sox aren't quite a strikeout staff,) and usually makes a lot of those plays. He's had a few generous calls go his way (intimidation?) and has botched some DP's that aren't counted as errors because you can only assume one out.

[Buehrle>Wood]

All you told me is that he has a lot of balls hit to him (The Sox aren't quite a strikeout staff,) and usually makes a lot of those plays.

Which is all you can ask, no? I'm certainly not asking him to go get balls over at 3B or 2b( but hey, if you wanted to know, he's tops in the AL at getting balls out of his zone as well). He plays his position better than anyone in the AL.

 

EDIT: Also, we we're 3rd in the league in strikeouts. Hardly not a "strikeout staff".

Edited October 7, 2008 by Buehrle>Wood

[BaseballNick]

Which is all you can ask, no? I'm certainly not asking him to go get balls over at 3B or 2b( but hey, if you wanted to know, he's tops in the AL at getting balls out of his zone as well). He plays his position better than anyone in the AL.

 

 

Agreed. OC makes some fantastic plays at SS. I don't know what games some of the people on here were watching all season, but his defense is about as good as you're going to see.

[ThunderBolt]

Joe Cowley was just on the radio, and said that after some members of the Sox organization heard the OC to Twins rumors last week, they told Cowley they'll be happy to drive him to Minnesota.

Maybe they should let the Cubs coaching staff drive him. We all know how that worked out the last time Piniella and his crew went on one of their road trips. It'll be Kingston Trioesque "He's the Cab, that never returned"

Edited October 7, 2008 by Thunderbolt

[elrockinMT]

How about this: Welcome to SS Alexei Ramirez!!!

 

 

That's my guess too. However, I have nothing against OC except that he will probbaly costs too much money to sign as our SS. Is there a leadoff man out there that can play SS-2B or 3B? I would guess Figgins and Roberts, but I don't see why LAA would let Figgins go and if they ddi at what cost?

[santo=dorf]

Which is all you can ask, no? I'm certainly not asking him to go get balls over at 3B or 2b( but hey, if you wanted to know, he's tops in the AL at getting balls out of his zone as well). He plays his position better than anyone in the AL.

 

EDIT: Also, we we're 3rd in the league in strikeouts. Hardly not a "strikeout staff".

If that's all you're asking for, why not keep Uribe for less than half the price and trade Garland for something else? True that we're 3rd in the AL, but we were 9th in the MLB in K's against.

[caulfield12]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fieldi...mn=totalChances

 

This is another interesting stat.

 

The problem is, Johnny Peralta is something like 5th in total chances, but he's essentially a statue at SS and will be moved to 3rd, probably to begin next season...so Asdrubal Cabrera can play there and Barfield theoretically will stop playing like Richie Weeks.

 

Jason Bartlett, who is a MUCH better SS than Cabrera at this point in their respective careers, is middle of the pack...because the Rays' pitching staff is so good and not dominated by ground ball/sinkerball pitchers. They have more K's, and there are so many balls hit on that turf that nobody can stop...those plays are usually made on a grass field like US Cell. Michael Young is a "meh" SS IMO, but he's second...largely because the Texas pitching staff is historically/traditionally so bad. Tejada is pretty horrible too.

 

So definitely, there's no be-all, end-all defensive measurement that's easy to quantify. We all go off our "qualitative" observations. This reminds me of numerous arguments about Clayton's glove versus Valentin's arm and "bad glove." It can never measure Valentin's better range and how many outs he got that Clayton didn't with his arm...just like Uribe and Ramirez.

 

 

[Wanne]

That's my guess too. However, I have nothing against OC except that he will probbaly costs too much money to sign as our SS. Is there a leadoff man out there that can play SS-2B or 3B? I would guess Figgins and Roberts, but I don't see why LAA would let Figgins go and if they ddi at what cost?

 

I think much will hinge on what happens with Teixeira. If he leaves that kind of opens the door for a Paulie trade to the halos IMO.

[caulfield12]

Maybe it would be better to put Dye at 1B and Swisher/Quentin on the corners...although, if that's the plan, Jermaine needs to start the adjustment ASAP. He can't wait until February 20th. Assuming a Konerko deal might actually happen.

 

You know Moreno absolutely has to be P-O'ed in LA. The Angels win in 2002 with a much smaller payroll, and Moreno's invested millions into the club. However, they're the West/Left Coast Yankees now and the Dodgers are still playing on in a relaxed, care-free way that might lead them to the WS title.

 

Just goes to show you, a team of stars doesn't always get it done...and a team like the Marlins in 2003, White Sox in 2005, Cardinals in 06, hopefully the Rays in 08, can take it to the big boys and make them look silly.

Edited October 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[sox1844]

No, I think most people are sour on OC because he's EXTREMELY overrated. His clutch hitting is atrocious, his playoff numbers are bad, and his defense isn't even GOOD. He's an AVERAGE SS. We did NOT see a gold glove SS this year. Far from it, actually. He's also a "me first" type of player, which doesn't help the matter.

 

OK dear, hate to shut you down here, but really? How is a guy OVERRATED when he hits above his career averages? Above?? Check the stats. And plays D consistent with is career averages? This is a case of a guy playing exactly to his expectations, and if you were surprised, then you were misinformed my friend. You didn't do your homework. You can't ask a player to do more than that on any given year. You certainly didn't ask Swisher to, and you all still love him.

[santo=dorf]

How in the world was his defense consistent with his career averages? He won gold gloves before, and this was obviously not a gold glove award season. Shouldn't we expect more than slightly above career averages (which aren't that good aside from BA, which isn't that important for a leadoff man) when trading away one of our starters and paying the guy $10 million? Whatever happened to Cabrera being the infield defense leader?

[RockRaines]

Not really. I hated him because he seems like a jackass. Name one "white" guy on the team with that same attitude and I'll hate him too. The only exception given to guy like that is if he is an amazing player, which OC showed he is not.

AJ Pierzynski

[RockRaines]

Joe Cowley was just on the radio, and said that after some members of the Sox organization heard the OC to Twins rumors last week, they told Cowley they'll be happy to drive him to Minnesota.

Cowley and OC didnt get along personally, and Cowley is someone who both holds a grudge and lets his personal feelings infiltrate his reporting. Check out his history, alot of his collegues felt the same way about him. I would take his opinion with a grain of salt here.

[sox1844]

How in the world was his defense consistent with his career averages? He won gold gloves before, and this was obviously not a gold glove award season. Shouldn't we expect more than slightly above career averages (which aren't that good aside from BA, which isn't that important for a leadoff man) when trading away one of our starters and paying the guy $10 million? Whatever happened to Cabrera being the infield defense leader?

 

He won 2 gold gloves in a 10 year career. Not to mention, he played 160 games for the White Sox, so he was out there almost every single day. And he's NOT a lead off hitter! He's never lead off, and he did the best he could. His numbers defensively were average. I don't know how many games you watch, but I saw him moving the infield on almost every play. He had a rookie playing 2b on one side and Uribe for most of the year at 3b, neither in their natural position. If thats not infield leadership, I dont' know what is. No one wants to mention that Joe Crede had like 20 errors in the half season he played.

[JoeCredeYes]

Cowley and OC didnt get along personally, and Cowley is someone who both holds a grudge and lets his personal feelings infiltrate his reporting. Check out his history, alot of his collegues felt the same way about him. I would take his opinion with a grain of salt here.

 

Cowley repeatedly took jabs at Quentin this year because he "has no personality" and "is a terrible interview". Just made Quentin sound like he's a real jagbag. When the real story should have been that Quentin takes his job seriously, and would rather spend his time working on his game and doesn't care to spend his time playing nice with the beat reporter. Joe comes off as a guy that expects to be buddies with the players to deal with the mundane routine of his job, and gets pissy when players don't care to spend much time with him. Acts like the working the beat is beneath him, well there's easily thousands of guys that would love to have his job and do it better than he does.