Off-Season Suggestion Thread

witesoxfan · October 8, 2008

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 09:52 AM)

I bet he goes with Marshall and Hoffpauir for Brian Roberts

Why can't the Sox top that?

sircaffey · October 8, 2008

QUOTE (BearSox @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 07:40 AM)

batting Nate McLouth leadoff is as stupid as batting Grady Sizemore leadoff.

Depends on the team. I don't like either leading off on their current clubs. They are both the best hitters on their teams, but if McLouth ended up on the Sox, then batting him leadoff would make a ton of sense.

witesoxfan · October 8, 2008

Batting him leadoff also gets him the most at bats out of anyone on the club. If they are the best hitter, it makes sense to me, because they can do things that a leadoff hitter does but they'll also be able to drive in runs too.

Kalapse · October 8, 2008

Supposedly the Yankees are going to go hard after McLouth FWIW.

beck72 · October 8, 2008

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 12:31 PM)

There's too many question marks about Justin, Crede and Taveras to make those moves...

[i]Why are we trading away Clayton Richard, who actually showed something in the playoffs? Because he's a Sox pitching prospect and we simply believe that he will fail like every starter since Buehrle?[/i]

I still don't trust taking an injured pitcher off the hands of BB...if he's healthy, he holds onto him for half the season while he re-establishes his league-leading ERA, if he's not 100% healthy or cleared by the doctors' exams, he's not going anywhere and Beane knows it.

1) Beltre

2) Casey Blake

3) Melvin Mora

4) Garrett Atkins

5) Kevin Kouzmanoff

Any of those aforementioned would be better options than Crede/Uribe at 3B again in 2009 IMO.

NOT TO MENTION THE MOST POPULAR CHOICE OF SOX FANS, CHONE FIGGINS!

A few things.

*Richard is likely not a SP. He has a lot of value now as teams may gamble that he can be one. But if he fails as a SP, his value will drop off a lot. If the sox want to make some trades, they have to give up some decent players. I like Richard in the bullpen a lot. For that reason alone, he might be too valuable to trade. Yet he's not going to be the sox 5th starter and shouldn't be if the sox are trying to get back to the playoffs.

*Beltre would be nice at 3b. But if the sox want a leadoff man [such as Roberts], most of their trade talent will go toward getting him. Same with Atkins and Kouzmanoff. Mora's bat would be nice. But his glove isn't there. If Crede's prognosis looks good, keep him around.

*Duchsherer had a hip injury. If it was his arm, I'd be leery. The sox need another SP who could put Vazquez as the 5th starter. And then the sox would have Poreda as the next option in case someone goes down.

*The sox need a speedy, good glove in CF. Esp. if Dye is in RF. While Taveras has holes, he'd fit the bill of speed at the bottom without sacraficing defense. The sox aren't going to find a CF who can steal bases, play solid defense and who can hit leadoff. Might as well get 2 of 3.

whitesoxbrian · October 8, 2008

I doubt Colorado trades Atkins. In the NL West, they can win that division.

If they do, it's going to take a lot to get him- Getz, Richard, Poreda, and maybe Fields.

I'm not sure if I'd do that.

beck72 · October 8, 2008

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 10:47 PM)

I doubt Colorado trades Atkins. In the NL West, they can win that division.

If they do, it's going to take a lot to get him- Getz, Richard, Poreda, and maybe Fields.

I'm not sure if I'd do that.

that's the thing. The sox have the peices for one big deal. It should be for a leadoff hitter rather than a middle of the order guy

witesoxfan · October 8, 2008

If you think Williams only has the pieces for one big deal, you are sorely mistaken.

caulfield12 · October 8, 2008

QUOTE (beck72 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 04:04 PM)

A few things.

*Richard is likely not a SP. He has a lot of value now as teams may gamble that he can be one. But if he fails as a SP, his value will drop off a lot. If the sox want to make some trades, they have to give up some decent players. I like Richard in the bullpen a lot. For that reason alone, he might be too valuable to trade. Yet he's not going to be the sox 5th starter and shouldn't be if the sox are trying to get back to the playoffs.

*Beltre would be nice at 3b. But if the sox want a leadoff man [such as Roberts], most of their trade talent will go toward getting him. Same with Atkins and Kouzmanoff. Mora's bat would be nice. But his glove isn't there. If Crede's prognosis looks good, keep him around.

*Duchsherer had a hip injury. If it was his arm, I'd be leery. The sox need another SP who could put Vazquez as the 5th starter. And then the sox would have Poreda as the next option in case someone goes down.

*The sox need a speedy, good glove in CF. Esp. if Dye is in RF. While Taveras has holes, he'd fit the bill of speed at the bottom without sacraficing defense. The sox aren't going to find a CF who can steal bases, play solid defense and who can hit leadoff. Might as well get 2 of 3.

But why would BB trade Duchscherer now, instead of waiting? #1, he's still on the DL, correct? Or no? Can he even be traded? He would have to clear a ton of physical exams from Sox doctors, and we've been on the other side of this situation with Mike Sirotka once before...it would be like KW trading Konerko, he could get a lot more coming off a normal, healthy, .285, 30+, 100+ RBI season than this one. Especially with the overvaluation of pitchers, he has no reason not to wait it out and rebuild his value.

knightni · October 8, 2008

Vazquez for Michael Young. :bringit

Kalapse · October 8, 2008

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 06:11 PM)

But why would BB trade Duchscherer now, instead of waiting? #1, he's still on the DL, correct? Or no? Can he even be traded? He would have to clear a ton of physical exams from Sox doctors, and we've been on the other side of this situation with Mike Sirotka once before...it would be like KW trading Konerko, he could get a lot more coming off a normal, healthy, .285, 30+, 100+ RBI season than this one. Especially with the overvaluation of pitchers, he has no reason not to wait it out and rebuild his value.

There is no offseason disabled list, that doesn't even make sense. Duch will be a free agent at the 2009 season's end so if he spends some time on the DL or sucks for the first half of the season Beane won't be able to get anything for him. (aside from maybe comp picks) If Billy Beane can find a team that's willing to roll the dice and give up a good prospect or two for Duch in hopes that he'll duplicate he'll come close to duplicating his 2008 production and maybe stay healthy enough to give them 28 starts then he should and likely would jump at it. Hell, just look at what Jim Hendry said today, he'd be happy if Harden gave him 25 starts next year as long as their 25 dominant starts, that's the sort of mindset Billy is banking on.

Fantl916 · October 9, 2008

The best part about reading all of these posts are that people are looking in all the logical places for players who will be on our team next year. I keep reading Figgins, Brian Roberts, Beltre, Atkins, etc...

I also keep reading that it'll be easy to trade for Figgins with Paulie, we can outdue the Cubs (and everyone else in MLB who wants a leadoff 2b) for Roberts, and the Mariners will give away Beltre, bla bla bla... First, the Angles do in fact have a decent alternative if they can't sign Texiera, and that's Kendry Morales. Some of you might laugh, but I would bet that the Angles brass would rather have have Morales bat .270 with 20 home runs and a cheap contract than Konerko and his .245 average with 25-30 home runs at $12 mil a year, especially since it would cost them Figgins... There will be a TON of teams after Roberts if he gets put on the trade block, and I would estimate it would take at a minimum Fields, Poreda, and someone like Shelby to beat what someone else might be willing to offer. Beltre will probably come the same as Roberts, as will Atkins. We might have the pieces for this, but I doubt Kenny goes that route unless he thinks he can sign Roberts to an extension.

In my opinion, and I'm gonna be a little outside the box here, under the radar because that's how Kenny Williams operates, I think we won't end up with any of the big guns everyone's talking about. Rather I think you will see subtle moves that some will like and others won't, but moves that potentially have very high upside. Here is what I'm thinking...

1. I think we package a couple decent minor leaguers (let's say Ely and someone like Sisqo) for Rickie Weeks to fill our hole at 2b. Now i know what you're already thinking: "That injury prone, crappy average, crappy defense, hugely talented guy? No way, you're an idiot..." But this is precisely what the Quentin move was, a move for a once hugely heralded young talent that has hit some injuries and rough patches, and has played hurt, albeit Weeks has struggled a bit more than Quentin at this level. Maybe he needs a change in scenery and a chance to get healthy to fulfill his promise. You trade for him, let him get healthy, and once he is bat him 9th and start him. If nothing else he's a speedy power source at the bottom of the lineup, and Getz is always there as a backup in case it doesnt work out. Big upgrade over Uribe in the 9th spot, and if it works out ya move Beckham to 3rd, if not his replacement is in Chicago by 2010...

2. Sign an innings eater for the 5th starter spot to a 1 year deal, someone like Braden Looper, Paul Byrd, or Odalis Perez come to mind. Guys, we are not trading Javier Vasquez. Yea he might suck in big games but the guy is someone we can depend on to be effective enough over 200+ innings. As a 4th starter he's great. It would be nice to not have to force Clayton Richard into the 5th starter role, as he showed brilliant stuff in the playoffs out of the bullpen, and I think he would be UNREAL in the long relief/spot starter role, with an aim towards eventually grooming him for the rotation. Guys like Looper, Bryd, and Perez aren't always pretty, but they can keep your bullpen from getting taxed and often enough put you in position to win games. Also this move doesnt necessitate Contreres coming back to the rotation upon his return, which is a good thing.

3. I am of the frame of mind that we don't need to make a big splash on the trade market to get better. I actually think we can get better by addition through subtraction. Nobody is going to like this, but at this point I think trading Paulie for prospects will make us better. Before you criticize, hear me out. Paulie is our emotional leader offensively, but he's an aging 1b who bats .245 and hit 20-25 home runs with iffy defense, and those are easy to come by. You can convince some contending team looking for a 1b or a DH to take him I'm sure for a few prospects, and maybe the Angles will to spite having Morales. If Paulie were to accept a deal somewhere that leaves us with Swisher at 1b, who essentially should replicate Paulie's numbers with a little better defense and a bit more pop if given the playing time. I don't see us trading Dye either, he's Thome replacement as our DH after next year.

4. That leaves us with the leadoff question... who is that gonna be? I estimate that we let Crede go and start Josh Fields, with Getz playing super-sub at 2b and 3b. That would mean that our leadoff hitter is probably coming from center field... You could look at this a couple ways: we could go get a Jerry Hairston Jr type, trade for someone like Coco Crisp (horrible idea if we did, but would fit the CF with speed), or do what i know people think is a terrible move... just play Jerry Owens. Now look, I don't want to ever read that we should trade for Willy Tavaras, and somebody did post that and I puked all over my keyboard when i did... When Owens played in 2007 he struggled mightily at first, but got better and put up respectable numbers. In fact, his 2007 ratios in half a season where he sucked for most of it were better than Willy Tavaras's ratios from all of 2008. He can steal 50 bases, and he can do so batting .270, which is repsectable. Nobody in Tampa complains about Iwamura, and he really doesnt have great numbers. All you need is someone who can be disruptive. That's what Podsednik was in 2005, and that's certainly what Owens can be when he gets on base. Now i know his OBP will not be stellar, but he's still young, and if he gets regular PT maybe he can improve into a .270 avg, .340 OBP type that steals 50 bases, scores 100+ runs in this offense, and plays quality defense. I like the idea in this scenario of giving Jerry a chance to see what he can do, best case he's Tavaras or Pierre in their primes, worst case you go find an alternative at the deadline.

So under my scenario we don't increase payroll, in fact we decrease it, and we get a whole lot younger, but I think we'll still be plenty competetive

CF: Owens

C: AJP

LF: Quentin

RF: Dye

DH: Thome

SS: Alexei

1b: Swisher

3b: Fields

2b: Weeks

Bench: BA (OF), Getz (2b/3b), Hall ©, Wise (OF), Uribe (3b/SS)

Staff: Buerhle, Floyd, Danks, Vasquez, Looper

Pen: Richard (Longman, spot starter), Wasserman, Dotel, Linebrink, Thornton, Jenks

Just my two cents trying to play the forecaster...

Edited October 9, 2008 by Fantl916

witesoxfan · October 9, 2008

You make a good points, but that lineup stands no shot at competing. KW wouldn't stand for it.

santo=dorf · October 9, 2008

I just read in the trib and on the Cubs board than Cedeno is on his way out because of a confrontation with the Cubs trainers. I bet we could get our hands on him for somewhat cheap. I've always thought he would be a good player if given regular playing time. He would be both a good option for SS and also for super sub.

He can't hit or field. He once also got thrown out at second after Jacque Jones took ball 4.

Lemon_44 · October 9, 2008

ok, here's my 2009 Chicago White Sox 25 man roster

batting order:

3B- Chone Figgins- acquired in a trade for Konerko package

2B-Freddy Sanchez-acquired in a prospect trade

LF-Carlos Quentin

1B-Jermaine Dye-he's a good enough athlete to make the transition

RF-Bobby Abreu-FA that Ozzie and KW have always liked

DH-Jim Thome

SS-Alexei Ramirez

C-AJ Pierzynski

CF-Nick Swisher

bench:Wise,Anderson,Getz, Lucy, Uribe on the cheap

Pitching:

SP-Mark Buerhle

SP-AJ Burnett-FA signing that KW has wanted for years

SP-Matt Cain-in a trade for Fields, Javy,prospects

SP-John Danks

SP-Gavin Floyd

Closer-Bobby Jenks

RP-Scott Linebrink

RP-Matt Thprnton

RP-Octavio Dotel

RP-Clayton Richard

RP-Adam Russell

bigruss · October 9, 2008

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 07:58 PM)

ok, here's my 2009 Chicago White Sox 25 man roster

batting order:

3B- Chone Figgins- acquired in a trade for Konerko package

2B-Freddy Sanchez-acquired in a prospect trade

LF-Carlos Quentin

1B-Jermaine Dye-he's a good enough athlete to make the transition

RF-Bobby Abreu-FA that Ozzie and KW have always liked

DH-Jim Thome

SS-Alexei Ramirez

C-AJ Pierzynski

CF-Nick Swisher

bench:Wise,Anderson,Getz, Lucy, Uribe on the cheap

Pitching:

SP-Mark Buerhle

SP-AJ Burnett-FA signing that KW has wanted for years

SP-Matt Cain-in a trade for Fields, Javy,prospects

SP-John Danks

SP-Gavin Floyd

Closer-Bobby Jenks

RP-Scott Linebrink

RP-Matt Thprnton

RP-Octavio Dotel

RP-Clayton Richard

RP-Adam Russell

ThunderBolt · October 9, 2008

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 08:58 PM)

2B-Freddy Sanchez-acquired in a prospect tradel

Sanchez is superficially a very good hitter, because his average is consistently high, and he a decent eye at the plate. That being said he has no pop, does not steal and injuries have transformed him from a fairly consistent doubles hitter to a singles guy. With our lineup this simply would not fly, and would instead be station to station in the most inadequate way possible other than the Sac Bunt

Reddy · October 9, 2008

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 07:34 PM)

In my opinion, and I'm gonna be a little outside the box here, under the radar because that's how Kenny Williams operates, I think we won't end up with any of the big guns everyone's talking about. Rather I think you will see subtle moves that some will like and others won't, but moves that potentially have very high upside. Here is what I'm thinking...

actually your initial logic is wrong. we usually DO get the guy Kenny Williams has "always been wanting", or at least KW goes after them. It just usually happens a year or two later. Griffey's a perfect example. KW had always wanted him, we talked about it here for years, then POOF! there he is.

i bet you that between Roberts, Figgins, Burnett and Beltre that we get one of them.

RockRaines · October 9, 2008

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 07:54 PM)

He can't hit or field. He once also got thrown out at second after Jacque Jones took ball 4.

He's a plus fielder. Has a good OBP in sporatic play this season. I think he can hit as well.

ThunderBolt · October 9, 2008

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 10:06 PM)

He's a plus fielder. Has a good OBP in sporatic play this season. I think he can hit as well.

Yeah, whether you like the Cubs or not I don't think anyone can deny that he (Cedeno) made positive strides this year. However, he made these strides by proving himself a decent backup, and I can't see him truly contributing unless it's as one half of a platoon or as a defensive replacement.

santo=dorf · October 9, 2008

He's a plus fielder. Has a good OBP in sporatic play this season. I think he can hit as well.

No he isn't a "plus" fielder and his OBP was .328. He has very little pop as well. I rather have Cabrera or Uribe over him.

beck72 · October 9, 2008

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 12:11 AM)

But why would BB trade Duchscherer now, instead of waiting? #1, he's still on the DL, correct? Or no? Can he even be traded? He would have to clear a ton of physical exams from Sox doctors, and we've been on the other side of this situation with Mike Sirotka once before...it would be like KW trading Konerko, he could get a lot more coming off a normal, healthy, .285, 30+, 100+ RBI season than this one. Especially with the overvaluation of pitchers, he has no reason not to wait it out and rebuild his value.

Duchsherer will likely get a big jump in salary in arb. due to his being a SP. He made $1.2 mill as a bullpen guy. Beane has enough young SP's around who pitch for meal money. If Beane can get a decent return, I don't see why he wouldn't deal Duch. While we're at it, I wouldn't mind seeing what Huston Street's asking price is.

caulfield12 · October 9, 2008

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 06:34 PM)