joejoesox Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Am I alone in thinking he simply doesn't fit into this teams lineup/positions right now? Not with Jim Thome in the lineup, whom also mucks up the water. If Thome is in the lineup, we're basically forced to either: Put Swisher in CF and deal with his slightly sub-par defense (He doesn't get the best reads, and he's not very fast), and look for speed in our lineup at 3B (Unlikely), or 2B/SS ($$$/Prospects&Pieces we don't have to trade IMO) or Trade Jermaine Dye, deal with Thome's subpar hitting (compared to Jermaine) in the DH spot, and find a CF while putting CQ and Swish at the corners. You wanna know what I think? First of all, F*** trading Jermaine. If Kenny deals Dye this offseason, I'll be the most furious, pissed off motherf***er on these boards. Dealing for Swisher, now that we know Quentin is capable of surpassing everyone in our lineup offensively, totally f***ed up the design of this team, offensively and defensively, as he's nothing more than another station-to-station player (And will not get any faster as he gets older) What I *HOPE* happens this offseason: Tell Jim he doesn't fit here, and if he stays, he'll be nothing more than a left-handed bat off the bench. He will not get anywhere close to regular playing time. Keep Dye, put him at DH Swisher in left Quentin in right Konerko at 1B Alexei at either 2B or SS Casey Blake at 3B Try to sign a CF and 2B or SS (wherever Alexei isn't playing). Make sure one of the aforementioned players can leadoff, and has gap-to-gap/linedrive power with a respectable average (.290+) and has a respectable OBP (.365+) I just don't like Swisher taking up a spot with Thome staying at DH, I don't want Dye f***ing traded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I just read some of the postgame stuff finally. KW hugged Swish and said, 'Start over next year.' That doesn't mean he won't trade him, but I can see the front office taking the stance that it was an off year which I don't necessarily agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 The problem with trading Swish is you're trading him at his lowest value. Bring him back next year when he should be able to at least hit .240. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 01:36 AM) I just read some of the postgame stuff finally. KW hugged Swish and said, 'Start over next year.' That doesn't mean he won't trade him, but I can see the front office taking the stance that it was an off year which I don't necessarily agree with. The fact that his batting average, OBP, and slugging percentage were all down significantly from his previous 2 seasons says otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 01:49 AM) The problem with trading Swish is you're trading him at his lowest value. Bring him back next year when he should be able to at least hit .240. I think he fits if you look down the road 1 more year. In 2010 Thome is gone and Konerko in the last year of his deal. You have Paulie Dh and Swish is your 1B from 2010 and on. In terms of 2009 you might start with Thome DH and Konerko playing 1B, but most likely Thome breaks down or becomes a DH platoon with Swish or Konerko. Keeping him isn't all the bad, especially since trading him at low value really brings you nothing. The most important thing is finding a new 2B and 3B (assuming alexi to ss) that have speed, hit in the gaps, and are high avg and obp hitters. That should help balance the lineup a bit. If we could land 2 of casey blake, nick punto, rafael furcal, orlando hudson would be great. Furcal/Hudson Alexi CQ Dye Thome Konerko/Swisher AJ Blake Anderson/Wise/FA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 02:03 AM) The fact that his batting average, OBP, and slugging percentage were all down significantly from his previous 2 seasons says otherwise. His OBP and SLG were down because his average was down. Plain and simple. Thome isn't bad, and people need to stop thinking he's a hole in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxdavid Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think he fits just fine. He can give different guys a day off during the season. I honestly think his numbers will be better next season, plus he hypes up the team. Definately not a club house cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxt Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Swisher didn't fit on this team the day we traded for him...Not one of Kenny's smarter moves - seeming made out of fustration and desperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Keep Swish. Why would you trade him at his lowest value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (rangercal @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 03:40 AM) Keep Swish. Why would you trade him at his lowest value? Uh, because I would rather have Dye than Swisher. It's a pretty easy decision to make, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (chisoxt @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 04:33 AM) Swisher didn't fit on this team the day we traded for him...Not one of Kenny's smarter moves - seeming made out of fustration and desperation. Swisher's fine, as a corner outfielder, DH or 1B. He's not 1) a CFer or 2) a leadoff hitter. Yes, there was some desperation, because KW didn't want to go through another year of Jerry Owens in CF. Rowand, Fukudome, Hunter...all the big names (thankfully) got away, for various reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to get the Cubs to buy out a large part of Fukodome's contract and rehabilitated him on the South Side. Stranger things have happened. It would be hard for them to send him to Iowa making that kind of money. He can't really go back to Japan as a "failure," and the player's union won't let him tear up or escape from his contract I don't think. Retirement at age 31. A very difficult situation for the Cubs, and one that I'm sure they will enjoy discussing all offseason long. Quite a change from the day he announced he would rather inhabit RF in storied/hallowed Wrigley Field and be the first Japanese player there instead of taking $2 million more (I think) from the Sox. He should have talked to Tadahito and Shingo first. Edited October 7, 2008 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 The problem with trading Swish is you're trading him at his lowest value. Bring him back next year when he should be able to at least hit .240. How sad is it that? We're actually looking foward to a player hitting .240. I know his OBP is sky high, but now I see why. I hate his approach at the plate, and I never did understand why people kept penciling him in for the first base gig. Even if he put up his Oakland OPS numbers, he wouldn't be good enough for first. People railed on Konerko's .842 OPS in 2007 yet Swisher's was .835. People were correct on USCF helping his numbers because he f***ing sucked on the road this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 05:30 AM) How sad is it that? We're actually looking foward to a player hitting .240. I know his OBP is sky high, but now I see why. I hate his approach at the plate, and I never did understand why people kept penciling him in for the first base gig. Even if he put up his Oakland OPS numbers, he wouldn't be good enough for first. People railed on Konerko's .842 OPS in 2007 yet Swisher's was .835. People were correct on USCF helping his numbers because he f***ing sucked on the road this year. Logic says to trade Konerko. Thome's our only LH power bat that we can count on for next year (no, I'm not including Swisher or AJ). Dye makes less than Konerko, but he's older. Both are within 1-2 years of being full-time DH's, I think. Dye's contract is over after 09, Konerko's after 2010... When it comes down to it, it's easier to go and out find/buy/trade for Paulie's numbers at 1B than replacing Jermaine's numbers (if he puts up a comparable, injury-free year) in RF. Konerko and Dye are both very popular players, but we've traded Lee, Ventura, Durham...and let players like Thomas and Valentin walk. Crede too, in all likelihood. I guess you'd have to say that trading either one would lead to a mixed reaction from fans...seeing the logic behind the move, but there's such a strong connection between Sox fans and Konerko/Buehrle because of 2005 and because they've been around the longest, by far. Konerko's last month and his power display in the playoffs should answer any questions about his knee/hand/obligue...as well as the lingering rumors about a degenerative hip condition, losing weight or only possessing warning track power and a slow bat. I think his bat speed is fine...it was just a matter of him feeling healthy and 100% again. I'm not one to stick Ross Gload or Scott Hatteberg or Olmedo Saenz and say that we'll have equal results as a team (by investing the money elsewhere)...but I do think we're pretty solid up the middle with Ramirez and AJ...we just need to sort out 2B/SS and find a better CFer with range, a good arm, speed and the ability to make contact on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 06:25 AM) Uh, because I would rather have Dye than Swisher. It's a pretty easy decision to make, actually. it won't happen. Glad Kenny Williams is the gm and not you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I like swisher. He had a down year, but he's young and I think he'll bounce back. If that happens, he may be a bigger piece of the greater puzzle, as well as CQ, Danks, Floyd and Lexi. If not, he'll be moved. I'm supportive of bringing Swish back for another year and seeing what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (rangercal @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 04:51 AM) it won't happen. Glad Kenny Williams is the gm and not you. what won't happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 07:19 AM) what won't happen? Swisher moved at his lowest value. You don't trade a 27 year old switch hitter, with a .805 career ops and a good contract after his worst year as a pro. That is not how any sane GM operates. (maybe the lower tier of GMs operate that way) . I consider Kenny to be in the top tier of GMs. In fact, If Swisher were on any other team, I would WANT kenny to go after him knowing he could come relatively cheap. Trading Swisher this off season would be very similar to moving Konerko after 2003. (Similar #'s, same age.) Kenny is a Buy Low/Sell High GM. Edited October 7, 2008 by rangercal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 The .805 OPS thing would be true, if he played CF, 2B, SS or catcher. But a corner infielder or outfielder, he's not quite as rare as you are making him out to be...I agree, unless KW got something good (another team assuming he could/would also have a bounceback year at a corner OF spot or 1B/DH and out of the limelight/pressure of Chicago), it wouldn't make sense to move him, just because he had one bad season. Any more than it would make sense to "banish/exile" Vazquez to the National League because 95% of Sox fans strongly dislike him right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 07:51 AM) The .805 OPS thing would be true, if he played CF, 2B, SS or catcher. But a corner infielder or outfielder, he's not quite as rare as you are making him out to be...I agree, unless KW got something good (another team assuming he could/would also have a bounceback year at a corner OF spot or 1B/DH and out of the limelight/pressure of Chicago), it wouldn't make sense to move him, just because he had one bad season. Any more than it would make sense to "banish/exile" Vazquez to the National League because 95% of Sox fans strongly dislike him right now. Well, he hit .836 and .865 the 2 seasons prior to joining the Sox. I am sure he can reach that again this year. If he has another bad year, then yes, cut your losses. These are the calculated risks you must take in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 guys swisher is fine. he was extremely unlucky when he was starting and then once he got moved to platooning he wasn't able to string anything together. not all that surprising. i think he'll bounce back if given a starting role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I'm definitely in the keep Swisher fan club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chi Town Sox Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 05:30 AM) Swisher's fine, as a corner outfielder, DH or 1B. He's not 1) a CFer or 2) a leadoff hitter. Yes, there was some desperation, because KW didn't want to go through another year of Jerry Owens in CF. Rowand, Fukudome, Hunter...all the big names (thankfully) got away, for various reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to get the Cubs to buy out a large part of Fukodome's contract and rehabilitated him on the South Side. Stranger things have happened. It would be hard for them to send him to Iowa making that kind of money. He can't really go back to Japan as a "failure," and the player's union won't let him tear up or escape from his contract I don't think. Retirement at age 31. A very difficult situation for the Cubs, and one that I'm sure they will enjoy discussing all offseason long. Quite a change from the day he announced he would rather inhabit RF in storied/hallowed Wrigley Field and be the first Japanese player there instead of taking $2 million more (I think) from the Sox. He should have talked to Tadahito and Shingo first. My friend and I were discussing the same thing walking down the ramp after the game yesterday - that would be hilarious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 CQ and Dye are the RH power. Thome the LH power. Swish stays and plays first. I think Konerko upped his value once again at the end of the season and he'll be traded. Konerko, Vasquez, Fields, Broadway to Blue Jays for Halladay and Rios (not sure what the needs are for teams but KW will get a top flight starter and some speed). Cabrera, Crede gone. Sign Hudson. We'll likely keep Uribe at 3rd, given lack of options but if we can get Rolen from bluejays too, that's be nice. Lexi plays short. Hudson Swish CQ Dye Thome Rios Lexi AJ Uribe Hall Anderson Wise Getz Halladay Buehrle Danks Floyd Poreda Jenks Thornton Linebrink Dotel Russell Richard Carrasco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 2009 bounce-back candidate Nick Swisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Swish isn't the problem. IMO he had a bad year but I hardly would give up on him just yet. The problem is we're stuffed with sluggers that we can't necessarily or won't trade: Konerko Griffey Thome Dye Swish made most sense to me at 1B but we can't move him 'cause Konerko's there. We can't DH Konerko because Thome's there. Dye to me seems like a DH ready to happen but we've got... Thome and Konerko. Griffey is the obvious choice to dump because I never knew what we got him for in the first place; we have three sluggers already and he sure ain't Brian Anderson in CF. But that core group: Dye, Konerko, Thome... it's pretty hard to figure out how to work around that if none of them are going anywhere. And don't forget: you could call Quentin a slugger too. So that's four sluggers, even with Griffey gone. No speed (maybe Quentin), no bunting. I don't know how you work around this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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