Thread for "Crazy Kenny" moves involving players 3+ years pa

[caulfield12]

Dodgers trade Juan Pierre to the White Sox for Josh Fields, and, in a Thome-like contract move to get him off their team so the youngsters can play, subsidize about 60-65% of his $45 million contract (3 years remaining on the deal).

 

Pierre, familiar with Ozzie from their days in FLA, becomes the White Sox CFer about 5 years too late.

 

The White Sox also sign Nomar Garciaparra to replace Uribe as their supersub and Casey Blake as their new 3B.

 

Brad Penny undergoes a thorough mental/psychological and physical (Dr. James Andrews) evaluation and is cleared to become Don Cooper's latest project with a one year, incentive-based deal with a Mutual Option for 2010 or buy out.

 

Luis Castillo is reunited with Juan Pierre at the head of the line-up, once again, 5 years too late...with the Mets paying $4 million of his $6.25 million contract and Boone Logan/Adam Russell sent to improve the Mets porous' bullpen.

 

Ozzie is still a happy camper to have the veterans around him that he trusts. Brian Anderson, not so happy.

Edited October 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[rangercal]

Juan Pierre is not coming to the South Side. I don't know where you guys come up with this crap.

[knightni]

Apparently, throwing arms and defense mean nothing.

[caulfield12]

I'm not saying that I like the move at all, and Pierre definitely is Johnny Damon-esque in terms of his arm, but I also don't see KW going out and bidding on many players either, like he thought about the last couple of offseasons. You look at Rowand, Pierre, Torii Hunter, Fukudome, Mathews, Jr., Dave Roberts...all of those guys turned out to be so-so acquisitions at best for their teams, AT BEST.

 

Andruw Jones, maybe the worst signing of all. But the Dodgers actually had the farm system to support so many mistakes with veterans like Pierre, Nomar, Kent, Andruw Jones and Jason Schmidt. I mean, if the White Sox/KW made one mistake ala Cory Snyder, he would be torn apart by the fans at Sox Fest.

Edited October 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[rangercal]

I'm not saying that I like the move at all, and Pierre definitely is Johnny Damon-esque in terms of his arm, but I also don't see KW going out and bidding on many players either, like he thought about the last couple of offseasons. You look at Rowand, Pierre, Torii Hunter, Fukudome, Mathews, Jr., Dave Roberts...all of those guys turned out to be so-so acquisitions at best for their teams, AT BEST.

 

Andruw Jones, maybe the worst signing of all. But the Dodgers actually had the farm system to support so many mistakes with veterans like Pierre, Nomar, Kent, Andruw Jones and Jason Schmidt. I mean, if the White Sox/KW made one mistake ala Cory Snyder, he would be torn apart by the fans at Sox Fest.

why not just play pierre 2.0 (jerry owens) for free? I don't think Kenny is that stupid. The man just brought in TCQ and Lexi. Give Kenny more credit.

[caulfield12]

Because Ozzie loves his veteran players...like Erstad and Mackowiak and Griffey and Thome.

 

He likes young players with lots of ability, but not Anderson/Tracey/Rauch/Fields/Owens/Andy Gonzalez, lol.

[santo=dorf]

Apparently, throwing arms and defense mean nothing.

I was going to say, haven't we b****ed enough about CF defense the last 3 years (yes, including some of Rowand's routes and plays like the one against the Indians at the Cell in September) with guys like Owens, Mackowiak, Griffey, Ramirez, Swisher, Erstad?

Edited October 7, 2008 by santo=dorf

[caulfield12]

ZONE Rating and Total Chances Per Inning (Carlos "The Franchise 2" Gomez first in both categories)

 

TC/IP

 

1. Carlos Gomez, .356

2. Aaron Rowand, .331

3. BJ Upton, .321

4. Curtis Granderson, .316

5. Adam Jones, .311

6. Carlos Beltran, .305

7. Michael Bourne Identity, .302

Near Last, BA, .228 (I know, I know, he usually comes in for the late innings, where the relievers dominate and there aren't so many fly balls, and our pitching staff was above average, so fewer chances)

 

Other interesting names to keep an eye on...(not qualified)

Ichiro Suzuki .332

Marlon Byrd, Rangers, .360 (bad Texas pitching or great defender?)

Carlos Gonzalez, A's, .345 (lots of chances will all those terrible pitchers the 2nd half)

Cody Ross, .301

Corey Patterson, .310

Rajai Davis, .323

 

ZONE RATING (just listed players we might realistically have ANY interest in)

2. Melky Cabrera

5. Corey Patterson

9. Mike Cameron

10. Chris B. Young

11. Rowand

12. Hunter

14. Taveras

16. Lastings Milledge

17. McLouth

18. Bourn

19. CoCo Crispies

 

To summarize, the best speed/defensive players we should THINK about getting are:

Ichiro

Corey Patterson (no go on that one)

Mike Cameron (but he's like BA offensively now, and aging)

Michael Bourn (anemic OPS)

Melky Cabrera (most interesting name so far, in terms of realistically getting him and not giving up something huge)

Taveras (anemic OPS)

CoCo Crisp

 

Cabrera and Crisp are good possibilies...

Ichiro for Swisher, Getz, Fields and Poreda (then we go out and find someone in the 2nd or 3rd round with OC's compensation pick/s and give them first round money to replace Poreda, sort of what we did with Reed, Sweeney and Danks)???

 

If we took on Ichiro's contract, we would definitely have to move Konerko or Dye. But I wouldn't mind an outfield of Quentin, Ichiro and Melky Cabrera. Pretty good, in fact.

Edited October 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[rangercal]

Count me in for going hard after Melky Cabrera and bringing in an experimental player like corey patterson (as long as he makes less than 3 mil) .

[joejoesox]

The Mariners would never deal Ichiro, he is the face of that franchise. Hell Nintendo owns 49% of the team, I believe. Japanese-american culture is a huge part of that baseball team, and Ichiro is the brand-name of it. I'd be completely blown away if the Mariners trade him

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

I think it would only happen if he publicly (moreso than he has done up til now) expressed his displeasure and desire to play on a contending and not rebuilding team...just because his teammates supposedly wanted to jump him or beat him up doesn't mean he'll be traded (anymore than KW could trade OC in the middle of the season, or Ozzie could bench him), but I think it's going to get some serious consideration, simply because of his age and the fact that his skills are slowly beginning to decline a little bit each year.

[Felix]

Dodgers trade Juan Pierre to the White Sox for Josh Fields, and, in a Thome-like contract move to get him off their team so the youngsters can play, subsidize about 60-65% of his $45 million contract (3 years remaining on the deal).

 

Pierre, familiar with Ozzie from their days in FLA, becomes the White Sox CFer about 5 years too late.

 

The White Sox also sign Nomar Garciaparra to replace Uribe as their supersub and Casey Blake as their new 3B.

 

Brad Penny undergoes a thorough mental/psychological and physical (Dr. James Andrews) evaluation and is cleared to become Don Cooper's latest project with a one year, incentive-based deal with a Mutual Option for 2010 or buy out.

 

Luis Castillo is reunited with Juan Pierre at the head of the line-up, once again, 5 years too late...with the Mets paying $4 million of his $6.25 million contract and Boone Logan/Adam Russell sent to improve the Mets porous' bullpen.

 

Ozzie is still a happy camper to have the veterans around him that he trusts. Brian Anderson, not so happy.

I would hate all of these moves, and they would make the team worse.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Felix

[caulfield12]

Brad Penny

Juan Pierre

Luis Castillo

Casey Blake

 

You can argue about Pierre and Anderson, but I think taking a flier on Penny isn't the worst move in the world, and has a definite upside. These seem to be the type of moves that KW typically makes, maybe not THESE specific moves, but it's his style. Not the big signing of CC or Dempster.

 

Castillo's a better fit for this club than Getz in 09, and Casey Blake is a solid, .800 OPS 3B.

 

Maybe Nomar wouldn't be a better "supersub" than Uribe, but he can play every position on the infield...not unlike Ozuna.

[chitownsportsfan]

I might not be opposed to bringing in Melky with the condition that he isn't promised anything and that he could very well lose the spot to Swisher or BA. It's going to be impossible to improve CF without getting one of Swisher/Thome/Kong/Dye gone, and I think that Thome is the guy I'd want to move the most.

 

Pick up 5 million or so from his deal and suddenly teams would get pretty excited to have him for 1 year for 8 million. Seattle, Baltimore and the Angels would be interested I think.

[elrockinMT]

Juan Pierre is not coming to the South Side. I don't know where you guys come up with this crap.

 

 

Stand by for more!!! It will get weirder as the off-season progresses. But, still kind of fun to see all the weird ideas that get floated around out there.

Edited October 7, 2008 by elrockinMT

[Buehrle>Wood]

Brad Penny

Juan Pierre

Luis Castillo

Casey Blake

 

You can argue about Pierre and Anderson, but I think taking a flier on Penny isn't the worst move in the world, and has a definite upside. These seem to be the type of moves that KW typically makes, maybe not THESE specific moves, but it's his style. Not the big signing of CC or Dempster.

 

Castillo's a better fit for this club than Getz in 09, and Casey Blake is a solid, .800 OPS 3B.

 

Maybe Nomar wouldn't be a better "supersub" than Uribe, but he can play every position on the infield...not unlike Ozuna.

 

Your math is bad.

[joeynach]

Because Ozzie loves his veteran players...like Erstad and Mackowiak and Griffey and Thome.

 

He likes young players with lots of ability, but not Anderson/Tracey/Rauch/Fields/Owens/Andy Gonzalez, lol.

 

I think your missing the point Ozzie isn't dumb. If ozzie though his young players were loaded with talent and great instincts he would play them, ala Lexi, CQ, Wise, etc. You saw what happened with our young players last year, those were bad players (terrero/gonzalez/etc) going no where, and it was dismal. I would play Thome and Griffey over those bums too. Dont even think for a second that if Ozzie had Andre Either or Matt Kemp he would play Griffey or Swish over them in CF most of the time, there is no way. Ozzie knows who the performers, stop gaps, and clown car players are, hes not dumb.

 

 

[caulfield12]

My point was if there's not a "clear cut" reason to play someone (like Griffey versus Anderson) and you could make legitimate arguments both ways, then Ozzie almost always goes with the veteran player and is more comfortable with that decision. Or Fields versus Uribe. Whether you agree or disagree, there's always baseball logic behind every decision he makes usually. Mackowiak versus Anderson, etc. Same thing with the bullpen guys...although I think in the end he gave Boone Logan 2-3 too many chances, we still managed to make the playoffs and Boone had NUMEROUS opportunities to redeem himself. Same thing with Ramirez...until Ozzie had no choice but to go with Clayton Richard (which is an example where Guillen chose a rookie over a more experienced player). Erstad versus Anderson...etc.

 

People keep treating Wise like he's a rookie, but he has more overall playing experience than Swisher in baseball. He's 4 years older and maybe Ozzie feels he's "hungrier." I don't know. Or maybe he just likes to go with the hottest hand available?

 

I've been arguing around here the last month WHY Ozzie isn't dumb or a bad manager...check the threads.

 

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

can it be March yet?

[kjshoe04]

can it be March yet?

seriously, I already miss White Sox baseball.

[MO2005]

Kenny will bring a leadoff hitter here who can do the little things! If you look at the trades or the acquisitions, you know it will either be someone who another team has dumped on for an old power hitter or a veteran who is 3-5 years passed due. In 2002 it was Kenny Loften, 2003 he got Roberto Alomar at the all star break, 2005 Scott Podsednik was a special case because the guy was coming off a 70 stolen base season. In my opinion it won't be Roberts because Kenny won't give up that much, it won't be Figgins unless Konerko waves his no trade (this could be a minor possibility like last year with the 1 for 1)...The ones I could see coming here are JACK WILSON from the Pirates because they need a bopper in that lineup and Kenny has dealt with the Pirates before and MARK KOTSAY fits here very well. No one is talking about these guys much...Hudson is wanted by Kenny, but I think someone will overpay for him.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Brad Penny

Juan Pierre

Luis Castillo

Casey Blake

I agree on Richard

 

Disagree on Anderson. He may be a better fielder, but as a hitter Juan is better and we need some contact hitters in this lineup. (PS: I dont want Juan on this team)

 

If this were 2002, I'd take Castillo in a heartbeat. Heck, in 2002 I wanted us to go after him. He's on the back end of his career now.

 

There is no way Uribe and Fields are better than Blake. He's no Crede from a few years back, but he's head and shoulder better than Uribe and Fields combined.

[witesoxfan]

Kenny will bring a leadoff hitter here who can do the little things! If you look at the trades or the acquisitions, you know it will either be someone who another team has dumped on for an old power hitter or a veteran who is 3-5 years passed due. In 2002 it was Kenny Loften, 2003 he got Roberto Alomar at the all star break, 2005 Scott Podsednik was a special case because the guy was coming off a 70 stolen base season. In my opinion it won't be Roberts because Kenny won't give up that much, it won't be Figgins unless Konerko waves his no trade (this could be a minor possibility like last year with the 1 for 1)...The ones I could see coming here are JACK WILSON from the Pirates because they need a bopper in that lineup and Kenny has dealt with the Pirates before and MARK KOTSAY fits here very well. No one is talking about these guys much...Hudson is wanted by Kenny, but I think someone will overpay for him.

 

neither Wilson nor Kotsay should be anywhere near the leadoff spot for a team at any time in the future

 

[caulfield12]

I agree on Richard

 

Disagree on Anderson. He may be a better fielder, but as a hitter Juan is better and we need some contact hitters in this lineup. (PS: I dont want Juan on this team)

 

If this were 2002, I'd take Castillo in a heartbeat. Heck, in 2002 I wanted us to go after him. He's on the back end of his career now.

 

There is no way Uribe and Fields are better than Blake. He's no Crede from a few years back, but he's head and shoulder better than Uribe and Fields combined.

 

 

I guess I need to start typing in Green Font too.

 

I wasn't being serious...completely. Someone pointed out how my opening topic for the thread...that all those moves wouldn't improve our team.

 

Now, I never said they were "great" moves, just the kind that Kenny normally likes to make, bringing in veterans 3-5 years past their date of expiration (like Chinese milk).

 

For CF, I have Melky Cabrera, CoCo Crispy Bar and Corey Patterson as 5th OF it they trade BA.

 

For 3B, Blake, then Beltre (I think think Beltre would be better, just too high a cost in talent to acquire), then Mora/Kouzmanoff/Atkins.

 

For 2B, Roberts/Hudson/Figgins (who can also play 3rd, making him a bit more valuable and also covering some gaps when Juan Uribe is gone)

[HuskyCaucasian]

I guess I need to start typing in Green Font too.

ah. no big deal. You never know. You could have been legit. Some people have an Anderson hardon.

 

For 3B, Blake, then Beltre (I think think Beltre would be better, just too high a cost in talent to acquire), then Mora/Kouzmanoff/Atkins.

 

Agreed. Man, it makes me so sad to say the Crede wont be at 3B next year. he had so much potential. Coudl have been a stable here for the next 10 years. But, he just cant hold up.

 

I'd be very happy with Atkins. Is he for sale or a FA?

Edited October 8, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000