Thinking Like KW on SS/2B situation

[elrockinMT]

Chris Getz of our own Chisox farm system maybe?

[Melissa1334]

Hes also a liability in the field, once again he has talent there but doenst use it properly. I dont think that trade would entice the Brewers....

 

He would be your favorite over TCQ or Danks or any other star on this team right now?

 

Also, I am not racist or anything, I jsut find it interesting that many athletes who are perceived as five tool players are usually minorities, which makes sense because from my experiences in playing sports the most athletic kids are usually nonwhite, but alot of these players get huge attention on their potential, that they have a quick swing, they have a strong arm, they are extremely fast. Seems almost too good to be true, and I think it is, for most of these guys dont have baseball skills, from inexperience or jsut not having it. Yes they can launch a ball in bp, or run a fast times in drills, but when it comes down to it they dont have 'it' to fulfill that potential. Im talking about guys like Adam Jones, Delmon Young, Weeks, etc, I just dont have any faith as a baseball fan that these guys will ever live up to their potential. Yes, they are all VERY young, and have loads of time to get there, I jsut dont think they many of these athletes have the baseball instinct that is required to succeed at this level. Once again, I am not racist, nor trying to be, for there have been white guys with the skillset but lack of baseball instinct also.

 

I guess I am comparing them to guys who have tremendous baseball instinct, but no athleticism, and how they may also succeed at lower levels but once the competition gets harder they cant keep up, except alot of these guys are never placed with the huge potential tag.

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, jsut something that came up in my mind.

what does the "t" stand for? ive seen it used a lot

[bigruss]

what does the "t" stand for? ive seen it used a lot

THE Carlos Quentin

[bigruss]

I wrote about this guy a few weeks ago. His name is Juan Carlos Moreno. He was a gold glove SS in Cuba for the Isla de la Juventud Grapefruit Growers. He was a back up for team Cuba in WBC # 1. I do not know how much he has left, but he should be a cheap option for any team al SS or as a back up.

 

He is going to play for the Cibao Giants (Gigantes del Cibao) in the dominican winter league.

 

Juan Carlos Moreno, the first guy from left to right. The guy on the right is a cuban pitcher. I think he is Braves LHP Francisley Bueno, but he may be somebody else.

Any knowledge on his offense or what type of contract would require to sign him? Basically, is there a real chance of him coming here and whats the scouting on him?

[Melissa1334]

THE Carlos Quentin

oh...lol

im a little more worried about the cf situation..its guna be swish again? i hope not

Edited October 14, 2008 by Melissa1334

[ThunderBolt]

many athletes who are perceived as five tool players are usually minorities,

Billy Beane, Brian Anderson, Joe Borchard, Josh Hamilton, Alex Gordon, Rocco Baldelli, Evan Longoria, Jay Bruce, Nick Markakis, Rick Ankiel, Joe Mauer, Grady Sizemore, Ian Stewart, J.R. Towles, and many more. It may not seem like it, but it's a fairly even line. I don't think race really factors into it.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Billy Beane, Brian Anderson, Joe Borchard, Josh Hamilton, Alex Gordon, Rocco Baldelli, Evan Longoria, Jay Bruce, Nick Markakis, Rick Ankiel, Joe Mauer, Grady Sizemore, Ian Stewart, J.R. Towles, and many more. It may not seem like it, but it's a fairly even line. I don't think race really factors into it.

OT, but I love Nick Markakis. He is every single thing that the most optimistic Ryan Sweeney lovers thought Ryan Sweeney could be, and he is without a doubt one of the most underrated players in baseball. This guy never gets discussed (of course he plays for the Orioles). He missed 100 walks this year by just one.

[ThunderBolt]

OT, but I love Nick Markakis. He is every single thing that the most optimistic Ryan Sweeney lovers thought Ryan Sweeney could be, and he is without a doubt one of the most underrated players in baseball. This guy never gets discussed (of course he plays for the Orioles). He missed 100 walks this year by just one.

The best part is, is that the kid could have been a dominating pitcher as well. THe Orioles had to choose where to put him! It's the same thing with Beane, Ankiel, Owings, and Hamilton. They were so naturally gifted that they could have done anything. The Pirates had to make this choice as well, with John VanBendenshoten, but unfortunatley, made the wrong choice.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Please Joe say it aint so!!!

[caulfield12]

This whole thing about race isn't quite as annoying as the NBA, where Steve Nash is "heady/gritty" and black players are "lightning quick" or can jump out the gym, etc. Although "grinders" are USUALLY white players, eg., Erstad/Miles/Eckstein/Getz, etc.

 

Grady Sizemore is probably the best all-around 5 tool athlete in baseball.

Larry Walker was an outstanding athlete.

Shawn Green in his prime.

Dale Murphy

Howard Johnson

Dante Bichette

Jeff Bagwell

David Wright

[HuskyCaucasian]

I stopped trying to think like KW a long time ago. I cant get in his head.

[Cubano]

Any knowledge on his offense or what type of contract would require to sign him? Basically, is there a real chance of him coming here and whats the scouting on him?

 

 

He is a line drive and a contact hitter. He will give you lots of doubles. He won't steal many bases.

[YASNY]

this is not just directly directed at you yasny but to everyone....really Beckham in 09????

 

Possibly. Look at Longoria.

[caulfield12]

I'm not going to even hope that he will be as good as Longoria has been so far.

 

I would certainly be willing to accept 15-18 homers, 75 RBI's and a .275-.280 batting average in his first season in the big leagues.

 

You have to go back to Carlos Lee, Ordonez and Ray Durham for that type of production in Sox rookies, not including Alexei Ramirez as the typical rookie but certainly he was outstanding, too. (Durham was 7, 51 and .257 with 18 sb's).

 

It took Aaron Rowand three "half" seasons to get started before he put up 24 homers, 69 RBI's, 38 doubles and .310 BA in one of his best seasons ever. Same thing with Joe Crede.

 

 

[YASNY]

I'm not going to even hope that he will be as good as Longoria has been so far.

 

I would certainly be willing to accept 15-18 homers, 75 RBI's and a .275-.280 batting average in his first season in the big leagues.

 

You have to go back to Carlos Lee, Ordonez and Ray Durham for that type of production in Sox rookies, not including Alexei Ramirez as the typical rookie but certainly he was outstanding, too. (Durham was 7, 51 and .257 with 18 sb's).

 

It took Aaron Rowand three "half" seasons to get started before he put up 24 homers, 69 RBI's, 38 doubles and .310 BA in one of his best seasons ever. Same thing with Joe Crede.

 

I'm not saying he's as good as Longoria. But, Longoria is an example of someone that was drafted one year and starting in MLB the next. If Beckham has a head to head competition with Fields for 3b, he just might win the job. He's a line drive contact hitter and probably better defensively than Fields.

[elrockinMT]

I think Beckham will be on the fast track, but they have to decide what position he's going to play. I could see him being up at some point during the 09 season, but not to start the season. That doesn't seem realistic since they'll build a team that can win in 2009. They certainly won't count on Beckham to start the season in Chicago.

 

My feeling is Beckham will play 2B next year at Birmingham. If Alexei is a great SS, he'll stay there. If not, Beckham will move back to SS. I'm not buying the 3rd base idea.

 

I think Beckham is in the opening day lineup in 2010, and hopefully for the next 15 years.

 

 

This makes more sense to me. Beckham may be on the fast trach to Chicago, but not in 2009, when he hasn't even played more than a month or two in the minors. Plus the fact folks seem to think he will be switching field positions.

[southsider2k5]

I don't see the Sox getting Hudson. Historically Kenny has used 2B as a position to save some money. Think back on our 2Bs, he has never ponied up big for a guy over there.

 

Alexei Ramirez, Juan Uribe, Danny Richar, Tadahito Iguchi, D'Angelo Jimenez, and Willie Harris are the guys that come to mind right away. When Ray Durham was about to get paid, Kenny traded him for nothing. I'd bet on Getz, a cheap FA, or some minor league guy no one is thinking about that Kenny swings a minor deal for.

[caulfield12]

"I'm not nothing."

 

Signed,

 

Jon Adkins' purported 95 MPH heater.

[DBAHO]

I don't see the Sox getting Hudson. Historically Kenny has used 2B as a position to save some money. Think back on our 2Bs, he has never ponied up big for a guy over there.

 

Alexei Ramirez, Juan Uribe, Danny Richar, Tadahito Iguchi, D'Angelo Jimenez, and Willie Harris are the guys that come to mind right away. When Ray Durham was about to get paid, Kenny traded him for nothing. I'd bet on Getz, a cheap FA, or some minor league guy no one is thinking about that Kenny swings a minor deal for.

I'd like Hudson, but I wouldn't offer him anything more than a 2 year deal.

 

Realistically, Beckham should spend all of 2009 in the minors, unless he just dominates at B-Ham and then Charlotte, and deserves to be given a chance.

 

But we are going to have at least 20-25M to spend this off-season IMHO, and we need improvements at 2B/3B IMHO. Putting Getz at 2B, is a lot of pressure to put on someone who most see as only a future utlityman at best.

 

I'm still dreaming of a lineup with Beltre at 3B and Hudson at 2B, but I'd be happy if we end up with only 1 of those guys really.

 

Ellis would be a decent option also FWIW, if the price was right.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

This whole thing about race isn't quite as annoying as the NBA, where Steve Nash is "heady/gritty" and black players are "lightning quick" or can jump out the gym, etc. Although "grinders" are USUALLY white players, eg., Erstad/Miles/Eckstein/Getz, etc.

 

Grady Sizemore is probably the best all-around 5 tool athlete in baseball.

Larry Walker was an outstanding athlete.

Shawn Green in his prime.

Dale Murphy

Howard Johnson

Dante Bichette

Jeff Bagwell

David Wright

Timo Perez, Pablo Ozuna, Wilson Valdez, Paco Martin, Christian Guzman, Carlos Gomez, Ramon Vasquez and the tons of other players like them all stand up and say hello.

 

There are just as many latin grinders as white grinders. There aren't many black or asian grinders simply because there's not many black or asian players in baseball comparatively. Willie Harris has improved enough to be labeled a grinder. He's actually a pretty useful bench player now. And Tadahito Iguchi regressed enough to where you'd call him a grinder. I still think Tadahito is valuable to someone off the bench, he probably just didn't feel comfortable in PetCo. He had a great second half with the Phillies spelling Utley last year. So, there are a couple at least.

[witesoxfan]

But we are going to have at least 20-25M to spend this off-season IMHO, and we need improvements at 2B/3B IMHO. Putting Getz at 2B, is a lot of pressure to put on someone who most see as only a future utlityman at best.

 

Hitting 9th though? I've warmed up a bit to atleast giving Getz a chance, but Uribe coming back has to become a necessity at that point and not just an afterthought (well, Uribe or someone like Alex Cora or whoever). You don't need a world beater to come in and take over the position, but you need some type of backup plan if you want Getz as the starting 2Bman next season.

 

Timo Perez, Pablo Ozuna, Wilson Valdez, Paco Martin, Christian Guzman, Carlos Gomez, Ramon Vasquez and the tons of other players like them all stand up and say hello.

 

Pablo Ozuna was once the #8 prospect in the game before his age caught up to him (in a literal sense).

 

I also don't get how you classify Carlos Gomez as a grinder. He's a talented player who sucks ass right now. He's going to be like 23 or 24 next season, and with a little help, he still has the capability of being a 20 HR 40 SB player. As a matter of fact, Jimmy Rollins age 23 season was very, very similar to that of Gomez's age 22 season this past year. The main difference was that Rollins was a bit more disciplined at the plate, walking 54 times compared to Gomez's 25, and he struck out 103 times, opposed to the 142 times of Gomez. Classifying Gomez as a grinder is just wrong.

[DBAHO]

Hitting 9th though? I've warmed up a bit to atleast giving Getz a chance, but Uribe coming back has to become a necessity at that point and not just an afterthought (well, Uribe or someone like Alex Cora or whoever). You don't need a world beater to come in and take over the position, but you need some type of backup plan if you want Getz as the starting 2Bman next season.

I've got no doubt Uribe will be brought back after what he did at the end of last season.

 

Would still prefer to see him as an utlity man though over the long - term.

 

Aaron Hill could be a guy you could try to buy low on, and if he doesn't get back to 2007 form, you go with Getz or Uribe at 2B.

 

I'd still like to see a more balanced lineup though, and we'll need improvements at 2B/3B/CF for that to get done.

[witesoxfan]

I've got no doubt Uribe will be brought back after what he did at the end of last season.

 

Would still prefer to see him as an utlity man though over the long - term.

 

Aaron Hill could be a guy you could try to buy low on, and if he doesn't get back to 2007 form, you go with Getz or Uribe at 2B.

 

I'd still like to see a more balanced lineup though, and we'll need improvements at 2B/3B/CF for that to get done.

 

Aaron Hill is interesting too...it'd have to be pretty cheap if he were brought in though.

 

More or less I'm just willing to give him a chance as a stopgap and to see if his high contact rate can make him a viable option at 2B. It wouldn't hurt to have a guy that makes contact as much as he does at the bottom of the order, and getting a little bit of speed in the lineup wouldn't hurt either, even if he's not super fast. If he flops, use Beckham or someone else from inside or outside the organization the following season. The Red Sox philosophy (and KW's too for that matter, it's just that his players didn't turn out well) of filling holes from within and spending money on big bats is actually a damn good plan. I expect to go into next season as the division favorite but I also expect quite a few moves this offseason as well.

[Balta1701]

I've got no doubt Uribe will be brought back after what he did at the end of last season.

 

Would still prefer to see him as an utlity man though over the long - term.

I certainly see us offering Arbitration to Uribe, but if there's a team out there desperate for a SS at a reasonable price I can see us getting outbid. A SS with his defense and 20 home runs a year to a team lacking power or needing up the middle defense is worth more $ than a utility guy is for us.

[DBAHO]

Aaron Hill is interesting too...it'd have to be pretty cheap if he were brought in though.

 

More or less I'm just willing to give him a chance as a stopgap and to see if his high contact rate can make him a viable option at 2B. It wouldn't hurt to have a guy that makes contact as much as he does at the bottom of the order, and getting a little bit of speed in the lineup wouldn't hurt either, even if he's not super fast. If he flops, use Beckham or someone else from inside or outside the organization the following season. The Red Sox philosophy (and KW's too for that matter, it's just that his players didn't turn out well) of filling holes from within and spending money on big bats is actually a damn good plan. I expect to go into next season as the division favorite but I also expect quite a few moves this offseason as well.

If Getz does have one thing going for him as you say, it's his contact skills, and it's probably why he was given the nod over Richar as a long - term option on that front.

 

If he could hit over .270, then yeah, I'd definitely consider giving him the full-time job. I just don't know if he can do that in his first full season in the majors.

 

If you can sign Hudson on an inflated 2 year deal, considering the other options that are out there in FA, I'd be inclined to do that. You'll lose 2 draft picks for doing that, but the Sox should gain 2 for losing OC anyways, IIRC.

 

Either way, more guys with better BA's/OBP's and who can fit into this team's core if they're not a major FA acquisition, should be KW's main aim this off-season.