Danks now an elite pitcher

[southsider2k5]

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index...ame%3dlaw_keith

 

Addition of cutter has made Danks an elite arm

 

Monday, October 6, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry

 

I've seen a lot of revisionist thinking in the last week regarding the Rangers' trade of the new White Sox ace, John Danks, a deal that two years later has left Texas with almost no return in exchange for one of the 10 best starters in the American League this year. This line of thinking completely ignores the state of the two pitchers at the time of the deal.

 

Danks was primarily a two-pitch lefty without a good breaking ball and who had just given up 22 homers in 140 innings between Double-A and Triple-A. That lack of a plus curveball or slider meant he fared worse against left-handed hitters than a typical left-handed pitcher might, allowing nearly as much power to lefties (an "isolated power" figure, equal to slugging percentage minus batting average, of .176) as he did to righties (.202) during 2006. With Texas' home stadium a good hitters' park and particularly friendly to left-handed power hitters, it didn't appear Danks would be a good fit. Danks was still a top prospect at the time Texas traded him (I ranked him as the 24th-best prospect in baseball before the 2007 season), but there were valid reasons for Texas to be concerned.

 

After the White Sox acquired Danks, they added a cutter to his repertoire, and the cutter is the difference between the high-probability fourth-starter prospect he was at the time of the deal and the top-of-the-rotation starter he is today. The cutter is effective against hitters on both sides of the plate, helps him miss more bats, and has made him less of a flyball pitcher and thus less homer-prone. The White Sox have made teaching the cut fastball an organizational core competency, and more than half of the pitchers on their major league staff throw cutters. Identifying Danks as a pitcher who could learn the cutter, and who would become a more complete pitcher by doing so, is to their credit, but he is not the same pitcher whom Texas traded in December of 2006.

 

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[juddling]

Whatever the Sox did for Danks, it worked. Now let's just hope Danks doesn't become a one-year-wonder

[elrockinMT]

I tell you one thing everytime he came out to pitch a game he showed talent. I really enjoyed watching John Danks pitch

[DBAHO]

Don Cooper would be one of the best at teaching the cutter.

 

It's certainly made a big difference over the years to some of the pitchers we've had here, and Danks is no exception.

 

The above shows why it's important KW needs to continue to look for good young pitching, and guys who may not have a good breaking ball (fastball/change), but can learn the cutter to go to the next level.

[Texsox]

While attention will be given to picking up the cutter, IMHO what is more important is something the organization cannot teach, a gunslinger attitude and a ton of nerve. That, is the biggest difference in Javy and Danks. Not the quality and type of pitches, but the ability to throw them under pressure.And iut cannot be taught. You may get better with exposure, but 90% you either have or you don't.

[southsider2k5]

While attention will be given to picking up the cutter, IMHO what is more important is something the organization cannot teach, a gunslinger attitude and a ton of nerve. That, is the biggest difference in Javy and Danks. Not the quality and type of pitches, but the ability to throw them under pressure.And iut cannot be taught. You may get better with exposure, but 90% you either have or you don't.

 

 

They seem to have taught it to Garland and Floyd.

[RockRaines]

Uh what? Wasnt Danks voted having the best curve in the texas system before we got him? What are they talking about his lack of a curve?

[ZoomSlowik]

If they were so worried about that, then why would you target a guy that had allowed 30 homers in 151 2/3 major league innings to that point himself? His home run rate wasn't all that much lower than Danks' in Charlotte to start 2005 for McCarthy either.

 

I'm not saying I thought this trade would turn out as amazingly well as it as so far, but it's not like we were trading a highly proven above average starter for a massive project, we were getting a lefty with decent stuff that was already in AAA at the age of 21 (which is another reason to not panick about the homers quite so much) and two other arms for a guy that appeared to be ready to start but had only shown flashes.

Edited October 15, 2008 by ZoomSlowik

[ThunderBolt]

Don Cooper would be one of the best at teaching the cutter.

I’ve heard the Coop actually had nothing to do with Danks learning the cutter (except for signing off on Danks using it). It was actually Danks who approached Buerhle on how to throw it.

[chw42]

Uh what? Wasnt Danks voted having the best curve in the texas system before we got him? What are they talking about his lack of a curve?

 

He doesn't have the curve anymore because he throws the cutter more. Steve Stone talks about this a lot. When you go to one kind of a breaking pitch (cutter isn't a breaking pitch, but it has a slider-like movement), it's very hard to master another. Gavin and Javy are two pitchers who can throw both a curve ball and a slider at the same time effectively. However, most pitchers can only throw one consistently. In HS, Garland had a great curve. After he got to the Majors, he used the slider alot more and the curve gradually went away. The same transformation has happened to Danks. You rarely see him throw a curve when he pitches now, let alone get it over.

[chw42]

I saw a lot of maturation from Danks this season. Earlier in the year, he was effective through 5-6 innings but had thrown way too many pitches. This went on until about June, but then he started being a little more economical and started going 6 innings more consistently and at times 7 or 8 innings, which is why he started to get more wins towards the middle of the year. Unfortunately, he got tired at the end of August and really started to suck for a good two weeks. He got on track at the end of the year and I think we really saw the mature Danks in his last two starts against the Rays and Twins. He conserved his pitches very well and went deep in both of those games. I don't know if he's an elite pitcher, I think he still has some developing to do.

[Heads22]

Plus, him and Buehrle seem to be good friends. Hopefully both are in White Sox for the foreseeable future.

[RockRaines]

He doesn't have the curve anymore because he throws the cutter more. Steve Stone talks about this a lot. When you go to one kind of a breaking pitch (cutter isn't a breaking pitch, but it has a slider-like movement), it's very hard to master another. Gavin and Javy are two pitchers who can throw both a curve ball and a slider at the same time effectively. However, most pitchers can only throw one consistently. In HS, Garland had a great curve. After he got to the Majors, he used the slider alot more and the curve gradually went away. The same transformation has happened to Danks. You rarely see him throw a curve when he pitches now, let alone get it over.

Apparently you didnt read the article above. It states he didnt have the curve BEFORE he learned the cutter, when in actuality his curve was his out pitch all through the minors. It was a plus pitch.

[chw42]

Apparently you didnt read the article above. It states he didnt have the curve BEFORE he learned the cutter, when in actuality his curve was his out pitch all through the minors. It was a plus pitch.

 

Ah, Ok. Then that's obviously false.

[Steve9347]

He's not elite until he consistently pitches into the 8th inning.

 

However, I f***ing love him, and he's close to that.

[RockRaines]

He's not elite until he consistently pitches into the 8th inning.

 

However, I f***ing love him, and he's close to that.

There are several things that are great about Danks, and here is just a few that I REALLY like:

 

1. His determination to be successful. There are many talented pitchers that come up to the majors and completely stall with their development. Danks was up a year early last season and in the offseason decided that he needed to makes changes to be successful. He seeked out help to develop another pitch, he spent more time analyzing every one of his starts the previous season, and took it upon himself to not stand still with his talent.

 

2. His ice cold demeanor on the mound. Danks has shown already at a young age that he is capable of taking on the weight of the team and going out and taking the ball. There are few young pitchers out there that show this ability at such a young age.

 

3. His "aloof" personality. Even the guys in the locker room have stated that they have a high level of confidence in Danks even in pressure situations. They have said several times that they dont think it bothers him and that in turn gives the players alot of confidence for that game. He is almost Buehrle like in this sense.

 

4. His love for the White Sox. I honestly feel like he helped get his brother signed this past draft, and that he is one of those guys that will be around for many many years and WILL take hometown discounts. This guy fits perfectly on the south side of Chicago.

[witesoxfan]

There are several things that are great about Danks, and here is just a few that I REALLY like:

 

1. His determination to be successful. There are many talented pitchers that come up to the majors and completely stall with their development. Danks was up a year early last season and in the offseason decided that he needed to makes changes to be successful. He seeked out help to develop another pitch, he spent more time analyzing every one of his starts the previous season, and took it upon himself to not stand still with his talent.

 

2. His ice cold demeanor on the mound. Danks has shown already at a young age that he is capable of taking on the weight of the team and going out and taking the ball. There are few young pitchers out there that show this ability at such a young age.

 

3. His "aloof" personality. Even the guys in the locker room have stated that they have a high level of confidence in Danks even in pressure situations. They have said several times that they dont think it bothers him and that in turn gives the players alot of confidence for that game. He is almost Buehrle like in this sense.

 

4. His love for the White Sox. I honestly feel like he helped get his brother signed this past draft, and that he is one of those guys that will be around for many many years and WILL take hometown discounts. This guy fits perfectly on the south side of Chicago.

 

um, I believe you forgot one

 

5. His name is Danks, and that is an adjective to describe good marijuana.

[RockRaines]

um, I believe you forgot one

 

5. His name is Danks, and that is an adjective to describe good marijuana.

well played my friend.

 

Of course I also like the fact I've had him in my sig for almost his entire MLB career.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Love what John did this past year. But you've got to do it more than once to be considered elite. No reason to believe he won't be able to repeat or even exceed this year's performance next year, though.

[G&T]

Love what John did this past year. But you've got to do it more than once to be considered elite. No reason to believe he won't be able to repeat or even exceed this year's performance next year, though.

 

Agreed.