Obama vs. McCain Debate III

[Soxbadger]

Well its impossible to answer how corporations are taxed unless you know the type of entity.

 

Corporate structures are not all the same these days there are 4 categories you could form when starting a business (only one of them would be considered a "corporation").

 

The first is called Sole Proprietorship, a single person is running the business and the business is taxed like regular income.

 

The second is called a "LLC" also known as a Limited Liability Corporation. An LLC pays taxes like a Partnership, that is they pay taxes the same way as you pay regular income tax. All the profits and losses pass through the LLC to the individuals in the LLC and they are reported on personal income tax.

 

The third is called a "Partnership" or "Limited Liability Partnership" the differences for this example are irrelevant are both are taxed exactly like an LLC, in that the profits and losses pass through the Partnership to the person, thus it is reported on personal income tax statements.

 

The fourth is called a Corporation, and when speaking of corporate taxes it generally only refers to those who are "incorporated" and thus are a corporation as compared to a LLC or Partnership. It used to be that almost all businesses were corporations due to the liability protection that Corporations offered. With the invention of LLC's formation of corporations has been on the downturn due to the fact LLC's allow you limited liability with out the negative "double taxation" of a corporation. Double taxation occurs in corporations because first the income of the corporation is taxed and then the income of the employees is taxed, resulting in income being taxed 2 times. That is with a regular C corporation, in all reality the plumbing corp would be a "S" corporation because it likely has less than 100 shareholders and therefore would be taxed the same as Sole Proprietorship, LLC, or Partnership.

 

Thus when you look at the facts the only way that the "plumber" could have been taxed at the higher rate was:

 

A) The Plumbing Company is literally a C class by the definition of corporations.

 

B ) The plumber made over $250,000 in gross income (not his corp, but he himself).

 

If its Case A its not a problem for McCain or for Obama, its a problem why the lawyer who formed the Corporation or who is Corporate Council for the Corp and hasnt suggested reforming the entity as an LLC or S Corp to take advantage of the more advantageous tax laws.

 

All in all, I think the event was staged to try and make Obama look bad, its going to backfire, but they gave it the good old fashioned try.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Soxbadger

[Steff]

FWIW, he never claimed to be making $250k now. His concerns were if he bought the business that he currently works for.

 

 

FWIW he appears to be FOS and his concerns were all an act.

[Cknolls]

So Joe the plumber isn't a licensed plumber. Doesn't make $250k a year and isn't even registered to vote. Why does that make me laugh out loud.

 

 

Is he a commercial plumber? Or residential? If the former, then he is in violation. If the latter then he is in compliance.

[BigSqwert]

Am I the only one that has the Super Mario Bros song in my head whenever Joe the Plumber is mentioned?

[lostfan]

Am I the only one that has the Super Mario Bros song in my head whenever Joe the Plumber is mentioned?

Well, I do now. Thanks a lot.

[bmags]

I saw an interview with him. It reminded me that I don't care. He wanted to get rid of social security. Your opinion doesn't matter to me.

[Rex Kickass]

FWIW he appears to be FOS and his concerns were all an act.

 

He also doesn't pay his taxes as he is in arrears to the State of Ohio for about $1200 in taxes.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?i...7360&page=1

Wurzelbacher said he didn't give any interviews before Wednesday's debate because he was busy fixing a water main break at a gas station and "I was muddy and soaking wet."

 

Wurzelbacher said he had a couple of plumbing jobs scheduled for today and hoped he would get more calls before the day was out.

 

He will need the money. Wurzelbacher's new notoriety has brought to light the fact that he owes nearly $1,200 in unpaid taxes.

 

"There is a judgment lien against him for nonpayment of income tax," Barb Losie, deputy clerk of the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, told ABCNews.com. "The state files hundreds of liens a day. It means he owes that money."

 

Losie said Wurzelbacher owes $1,182 from January 2007, but no action has been taken against him outside of filing the lien.

 

"There is no judge pulled, there is no attorney assigned... There is a 99 percent chance he doesn't know about the lien, unless he did a credit report or was ready to pay his taxes," Losie said.

 

A second lien has been filed in the courhouse against Wurzelbacher for $1,261 that he apparently owes St. Charles Mercy Hospital. That lien was filed in March 2007.

[Balta1701]

He also doesn't pay his taxes as he is in arrears to the State of Ohio for about $1200 in taxes.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?i...7360&page=1

I believe he's now also held more press conferences than Sarah Palin.

[BigSqwert]

I believe he's now also held more press conferences than Sarah Palin.

 

Easily.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I believe he's now also held more press conferences than Sarah Palin.

it's like 6-1.

[HuskyCaucasian]

He also doesn't pay his taxes as he is in arrears to the State of Ohio for about $1200 in taxes.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?i...7360&page=1

I have to find the link, he's apparently not even a certified / registered plumber.

An official at Local 50 of the plumber’s union, based in Toledo, said Mr. Wurzelbacher does not hold a license. He also has never served an apprenticeship and does not belong to the union. (The national plumber’s union, the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, endorsed Mr. Obama, it should be noted.)

 

“He’s basically playing games with the world,” Thomas Joseph, the local’s business manager, said in a telephone interview Thursday morning.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[Cknolls]

I believe he's now also held more press conferences than Sarah Palin.

 

 

And he has gotten more press coverage than the Chairman of Ways and Means who "didn't know" he had to pay taxes.

 

 

 

 

[Steve9347]

Well, I do now. Thanks a lot.

 

[Steve9347]

This is just hilarious. The media needs to ignore Joe the Plumber. This is sooooooo the 2008 election.

[Balta1701]

This is just hilarious. The media needs to ignore Joe the Plumber. This is sooooooo the 2008 election.

Don't worry, he won't be able to vote. Someone made a mistake in one of the state of Ohio's databases and misspelled his name, so even if he was registered, he's one of the people the Republicans say can't vote.

[Dick Allen]

I wonder if he'll pay taxes on the payoff he received for playing this roll. Its pretty funny.

[EvilMonkey]

I wonder if he'll pay taxes on the payoff he received for playing this roll. Its pretty funny.

So it's entirely believable to you all that Joe was on the Republican payroll, but absolutely impossible that any or all of the people spouting the hate stuff at the last few rallies were Dem plants. I get it now. Thanks for making that all clear.

 

 

You know, if some of the people on here would have spent as much time vetting ACORN as they have Joe the plumber, they would actually be a little concerned at the consistent pattern of crap that they do. But I guess since ACORN benefits the Dems (even though they CLAIM to be non-partisian), that the ends justify the means.

[Balta1701]

You know, if some of the people on here would have spent as much time vetting ACORN as they have Joe the plumber, they would actually be a little concerned at the consistent pattern of crap that they do. But I guess since ACORN benefits the Dems (even though they CLAIM to be non-partisian), that the ends justify the means.

Hey, like I said, as long as you're happy about Joe not voting because someone made a mistake in a database, then we're cool.

[HuskyCaucasian]

So it's entirely believable to you all that Joe was on the Republican payroll

Joe the Plumber... Meet Charles Keating

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[EvilMonkey]

Joe the Plumber... Meet Charles Keating

So NOW relationships matter? I see. What's Joe running for again? That's right, nothing. I see the narrative. Destroy Joe the plumber and then the words will have magically never have been spoken by the Chosen One about how he wants to redistribute wealth. Joe can be the f***ing rotting corpse of Jimmy Hoffa and it still doesn't change the words out of Obama's mouth. Sp why continue on these politcs of personal destruction?

 

Oh, also, there is no relationship there.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/1.../42/1001/632600

 

And just a little more on all that Democratic hate, Daily Kos has listed Joe the Plumber’s full name and address on its front page. Democratic Underground has posted his phone number and other information. Politico.com has three different writers busy publishing details about Joe the Plumber’s private life. No hate there.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Alpha Dog

[Dick Allen]

So NOW relationships matter? I see. What's Joe running for again? That's right, nothing. I see the narrative. Destroy Joe the plumber and then the words will have magically never have been spoken by the Chosen One about how he wants to redistribute wealth. Joe can be the f***ing rotting corpse of Jimmy Hoffa and it still doesn't change the words out of Obama's mouth. Sp why continue on these politcs of personal destruction?

 

Oh, also, there is no relationship there.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/1.../42/1001/632600

 

And just a little more on all that Democratic hate, Daily Kos has listed Joe the Plumber’s full name and address on its front page. Democratic Underground has posted his phone number and other information. Politico.com has three different writers busy publishing details about Joe the Plumber’s private life. No hate there.

This is the guy who BSed his way to the national spotlight, and then McCain mentions him in the debate, which I'm sure wasn't part of the plan was it?. He put himself in the spotlight. This is all his doing. Its not like when the media was camped out at Bartman's house when all the guy did was what anyone else sitting in his seat would have done. If Anne vs. Ann is enough to kill a vote, Joe shouldn't count in November. But of course, he doesn't know who he's voting for yet, does he?

Edited October 16, 2008 by Dick Allen

[EvilMonkey]

This is the guy who BSed his way to the national spotlight, and then McCain mentions him in the debate, which I'm sure wasn't part of the plan was it?. He put himself in the spotlight. This is all his doing. Its not like when the media was camped out at Bartman's house when all the guy did was what anyone else sitting in his seat would have done. If Anne vs. Ann is enough to kill a vote, Joe shouldn't count in November. But of course, he doesn't know who he's voting for yet, does he?

I didn't say i had a problem with im not voting. And he WILl be allowed to vote, using the provisional ballots like every one else in his situation. But why trying to kill the messenger? It doesn't change what Obama said. I don't care if it was Ann f-ing Coulter that asked the question, it still doesn't change his answer.

[southsider2k5]

I didn't say i had a problem with im not voting. And he WILl be allowed to vote, using the provisional ballots like every one else in his situation. But why trying to kill the messenger? It doesn't change what Obama said. I don't care if it was Ann f-ing Coulter that asked the question, it still doesn't change his answer.

 

Its ironic that only the message mattered when people where questioning Al Gore... Now the message doesn't matter and we are back on the messenger.

 

Ah, yeah, I can feel the change all right...

[mr_genius]

And he has gotten more press coverage than the Chairman of Ways and Means who "didn't know" he had to pay taxes.

 

haha. yea that got buried REAL fast by the media

[Soxbadger]

I swear in this thread I posted why the message was misleading as well.

 

Im pretty sure there are some posts with a lot of words discussing capitalism, taxation on corporation, etc.

 

I guess its easier to just say people are attacking the messenger?

 

Cause so far I havent said one word about Joe, Ive just said how the message was intentionally misleading and if you want to say that Obama is a Socialist, you need to say McCain is a socialist.

 

If you want to say Obama wants to spread the wealth via taxes, you need to say McCain wants to spread the wealth with taxes.

 

So far no one has said that McCain stands for anything but a progressive tax, which is the exact same system Obama is advocating.