Milkman delivers Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 17, 2008 -> 02:59 PM) ...Yet you somehow know all this. M'kay. I see them all the time. Everything Dick Allen is saying is true. Here's the thing. Manny might be better than A-Rod. When he actually tries (which he only does on specific occasions, such as this contact year), he puts up incredible numbers. The problem is that he hardly ever puts in that much effort, and therefore, A-Rod puts up better numbers. I suppose you might be saying that you'd take Manny on pure talent alone, but he doesn't put that talent to full use. If you can convince him to give 100%, then good for you. You can have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 17, 2008 -> 02:40 AM) Because there are 30+ other guys on his team that helped get the team to the playoffs, and then there are 24 other guys on his team during the playoffs? Did Manny win those rings all by himself? Who's had the better career, Ken Griffey Jr or Manny Ramirez? It's not an entirely flawed argument, but if you are using rings, than the answer should certainly be Manny Ramirez, right? Didn't I already mention on a previous post that there is a 25 man roster, but out of that 25 there is always a few players, or at least a couple, that can carry a team? Carlos Quentin, of this season, is a good example. He did so much to the contribution of this year's success that in everyone's eyes he seems to have the caliber to be someone you can depend on. Alex Rodriguez seems to let the media get to him when he is going through a slump and in turn the fans in New York are not too far away from looking up on him. With Manny, he goes through this whole off-field debacle, but that doesn't stop him from coming through in the clutch when he's on the field. I completely understand that Manny and Alex are going to put up good #'s when it's all said and done, but there are stretche's where each player inevitably has to get slammed because of lack of interest or lack of producing when needed. It's easy to figure which of the two falls into one of those terms. And as odd as it may seem, both always have to go through that and I don't see it going away until they are consecrated in the Hall of Fame. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 17, 2008 -> 02:40 AM) It's also funny that you still have yet to acknowledge that you are tearing ARod apart because of 35 PAs. How on earth does that make sense? You must be a pretty forgiven person because you don't get 35 PAs back, EVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 18, 2008 -> 04:38 PM) I see them all the time. Everything Dick Allen is saying is true. Here's the thing. Manny might be better than A-Rod. When he actually tries (which he only does on specific occasions, such as this contact year), he puts up incredible numbers. The problem is that he hardly ever puts in that much effort, and therefore, A-Rod puts up better numbers. I suppose you might be saying that you'd take Manny on pure talent alone, but he doesn't put that talent to full use. If you can convince him to give 100%, then good for you. You can have him. See, that's strange, because I watch tons of baseball, including lots of Red Sox games, and I recall Manny putting in about as much effort as any other major-league star. I also know lots of Red Sox fans, and all but one say Manny worked pretty hard at becoming at least decent in left field, always seemed to play hard when it counted, etc. So it looks like we have completely different interpretations of Manny's play style. That's fine; everyone has an opinion. Looks like all that's left is stats, so I'll re-post the question no one has answered: show me a season where Manny Ramirez hasn't produced. Show me how his numbers in previous years don't live up to his billing as one of the best right-handed hitters in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 20, 2008 -> 10:53 AM) See, that's strange, because I watch tons of baseball, including lots of Red Sox games, and I recall Manny putting in about as much effort as any other major-league star. I also know lots of Red Sox fans, and all but one say Manny worked pretty hard at becoming at least decent in left field, always seemed to play hard when it counted, etc. So it looks like we have completely different interpretations of Manny's play style. That's fine; everyone has an opinion. Looks like all that's left is stats, so I'll re-post the question no one has answered: show me a season where Manny Ramirez hasn't produced. Show me how his numbers in previous years don't live up to his billing as one of the best right-handed hitters in the game. That'd be impossible, as he's always been one of the best. Now, you show me which player put up better numbers each year, as that is the question being asked in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 17, 2008 -> 01:12 PM) Who cares? He "dogs" it at a hall-of-fame caliber. I don't care if he takes a dump in the outfield every game if he posts a .900+ OPS, which he's done pretty much every year of his career. I really just can't understand the Manny Ramirez hatred going on in this thread. I guess I believe you can take one without hating the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 20, 2008 -> 11:06 AM) That'd be impossible, as he's always been one of the best. Now, you show me which player put up better numbers each year, as that is the question being asked in this thread.Sure -- it's almost even, unless you consider defensive stats, VORP, and WARP, then A-Rod pulls ahead. I mentioned before that this was the case. Alex Rodriguez is certainly not better because he tries harder, which unfortunately seems to be the popular argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 20, 2008 -> 02:57 PM) Sure -- it's almost even, unless you consider defensive stats, VORP, and WARP, then A-Rod pulls ahead. I mentioned before that this was the case. Alex Rodriguez is certainly not better because he tries harder, which unfortunately seems to be the popular argument. No, he's just flat-out better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 15, 2008 -> 11:05 PM) Anyways, Alex Rodriguez plays 3B, doesn't need to be traded to be motivated, and he annually puts up better regular season numbers than Manny Ramirez. Alex Rodriguez is easily more valuable than Manny Ramirez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Who would you rather have at bat in 9th inning Sunday night with the man on first. If you think every Red Sox fan was wishing they had Manny in the 7th, 8th or 9th on Sunday you are kidding yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Oct 21, 2008 -> 03:07 PM) Who would you rather have at bat in 9th inning Sunday night with the man on first. If you think every Red Sox fan was wishing they had Manny in the 7th, 8th or 9th on Sunday you are kidding yourself. Was, or wasn't? I know they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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