Anyone switch sides?

[Middle Buffalo]

Have the debates cause anyone to switch sides? Did you come into the election season thinking you'd vote for McCain or Obama and now you think you'll vote the other way?

 

 

[Reddy]

i'd be surprised if anyone says yes. in reality, all these debates really are are opportunities for a candidate to make a gamechanging gaffe. a good performance really does nothing.

[Brian]

I believe its called Menage a Trois ? Sorry.

 

I think debates are more for the undecided voter. I think people who had their candidate before they ever start rarely switch.

 

 

[rangercal]

I have gone from supporting Ron Paul, to now deciding to vote for Obama since Paul withdrew . But, the debates had little to do with it. I already knew Obama's stance on the issues, how anyone delivers their message has little to do on my Vote.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

I have gone from supporting Ron Paul, to now deciding to vote for Obama since Paul withdrew . But, the debates had little to do with it. I already knew Obama's stance on the issues, how anyone delivers their message has little to do on my Vote.

 

If you've been a Ron Paul supporter, I'm surprised you're even settling for the mediocre choices we are given. Personally, I'm much more interested in what Ron Paul is doing nowadays rather than who wins a silly presidential election. McCain or Obama, we're screwed either way. Their campaigns will spend millions trying to convince you otherwise, but I've wised up to that BS.

 

It's time to clear out the system and give it a reboot! Erase everyones debt, let them keep their homes, and start over. Taking care of a family is much, much more important than some fraudulent credit system created by fraudulent credit people. Their problem should not end up being our problem as it is becoming. American people are way too tolerant of this, and a lot of them honestly need to wake up and tell the government to STFU and restart. Re-do the Judicial, Legislative, and Executive branches with all new people committed to making the US a good country.. unlike current representatives. I have a feeling that this will become a much more common thought process when everyone realizes Obama was not as advertised (just like Bush) and we end up spiraling into more and more of a world empire until we finally put an end to it.

Edited October 16, 2008 by YahtzeeSox

[kapkomet]

If you've been a Ron Paul supporter, I'm surprised you're even settling for the mediocre choices we are given. Personally, I'm much more interested in what Ron Paul is doing nowadays rather than who wins a silly presidential election. McCain or Obama, we're screwed either way. Their campaigns will spend millions trying to convince you otherwise, but I've wised up to that BS.

 

It's time to clear out the system and give it a reboot! Erase everyones debt, let them keep their homes, and start over. Taking care of a family is much, much more important than some fraudulent credit system created by fraudulent credit people. Their problem should not end up being our problem as it is becoming. American people are way too tolerant of this, and a lot of them honestly need to wake up and tell the government to STFU and restart. Re-do the Judicial, Legislative, and Executive branches with all new people committed to making the US a good country.. unlike current representatives. I have a feeling that this will become a much more common thought process when everyone realizes Obama was not as advertised (just like Bush) and we end up spiraling into more and more of a world empire until we finally put an end to it.

Holy s***, you and I agree on something.

 

I, too, think a nice housecleaning is in order. But it's not going to happen, until at least 2010.

 

[lostfan]

If you've been a Ron Paul supporter, I'm surprised you're even settling for the mediocre choices we are given. Personally, I'm much more interested in what Ron Paul is doing nowadays rather than who wins a silly presidential election. McCain or Obama, we're screwed either way. Their campaigns will spend millions trying to convince you otherwise, but I've wised up to that BS.

Believe it or not, I started this election campaign on the Ron Paul bandwagon, but once I learned more about him I jumped off. I admire his interpretation of the Constitution and commitment to small government, but listening to his supporters you'd think he was categorically better than every modern candidate we've ever had, but realistically the dude is stuck in the year 1895 and probably a good 3/4 of what he says is completely unrealistic, even moreso than Obama's soaring utopian rhetoric. He's just as "mediocre" as anybody else.

Edited October 16, 2008 by lostfan

[bmags]

WOO HOO let's get rid of the constitution, IT HASN'T WORKED!

[mr_genius]

WOO HOO let's get rid of the constitution, IT HASN'T WORKED!

 

is that Joe the Plumber's policy? If so I will go along with this plan to get rid of the constitution.

[DukeNukeEm]

Believe it or not, I started this election campaign on the Ron Paul bandwagon, but once I learned more about him I jumped off. I admire his interpretation of the Constitution and commitment to small government, but listening to his supporters you'd think he was categorically better than every modern candidate we've ever had, but realistically the dude is stuck in the year 1895 and probably a good 3/4 of what he says is completely unrealistic, even moreso than Obama's soaring utopian rhetoric. He's just as "mediocre" as anybody else.

He's attractive at first because what he says makes sense in theory, but we've seen what happens when zero regulation of business and isolationist (which is really what his policies were) foreign policies are used and it's not good.

[lostfan]

He's attractive at first because what he says makes sense in theory, but we've seen what happens when zero regulation of business and isolationist (which is really what his policies were) foreign policies are used and it's not good.

Pretty much, he basically wanted to go back to the Articles of Confederation level of federal government... umm, no.

[Middle Buffalo]

I'd love it if we had a viable third party to stir things up. Really, I think that's the only way to make things right in Washington. As it is, everyone just votes along party lines and spews the same rhetoric as the others in their party. There's not really much "reaching across the aisle" - despite what McCain and Obama keep saying they've done and will do in the future. I swear, I listen to Jesse Ventura get interviewed and I think, now there's someone who's actually thinking for himself.

 

I find it laughable that every Dem has these core values, and every Rep has these core values. What, it's not possible to have a liberal mindset and be pro-life? The great thing about the primary debates is that some of the nuts from each party get in there and start stirring things up. By the time it gets to the two candidates, all the talking points are pretty much just the party line. Too much of politics and the way people align with the parties is like being a sports fan. People say they're Democrats, and then they refuse to see any merits of the other party, and vice versa. Politics should be bigger than being a die-hard Cub or Sox fan.

 

I, too, wasn't swayed by the debates, but they did confirm my initial pick for President. Maybe I'm just being biased, though.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Middle Buffalo

[bmags]

peanut and I are pretty big backers of the two-party system. Take New Zealand for instance, their conservative party will likely get 35% plurality, but they need 50% majority, so likely they will have to make deals with the green party (think of Lieberman caucasing with the democrats to the extreme), so, the conservative party, to stay in power, will make huge concessions to one of the most liberal groups in New Zealand. I think the third party system sounds pretty appealing, but in practicality in the American system, there's a reason they haven't gained weight.

 

edit: by peanut I meant dukenukem.

Edited October 17, 2008 by bmags

[lostfan]

lol, I didn't even catch the "Peanut" slip at first.

[NorthSideSox72]

peanut and I are pretty big backers of the two-party system. Take New Zealand for instance, their conservative party will likely get 35% plurality, but they need 50% majority, so likely they will have to make deals with the green party (think of Lieberman caucasing with the democrats to the extreme), so, the conservative party, to stay in power, will make huge concessions to one of the most liberal groups in New Zealand. I think the third party system sounds pretty appealing, but in practicality in the American system, there's a reason they haven't gained weight.

 

edit: by peanut I meant dukenukem.

The reasons we haven't seen a third party make some noise are not because it doesn't work well in the system. Its the high barriers to entry.

 

I think it might happen, if done the right way. We'll see.

 

[mreye]

I know it's cliche, but it's Lesser of Two Evils for me. The only thing that's changed with the debates is I'm even more convinced that John McCain doesn't have a single Conservative bone in his body. Prior, I thought (naively) that there might be a chance.

 

I'll still vote for him, but I'll do so with my nose plugged. More important to me are my Reps and Governor.

[NorthSideSox72]

This election hasn't necessarily resulted in a flip for me. But, I have voted for more Republicans for President (2) than I have Democrats (1), and I've voted independent once. But in recent years, I am voting Dem more often. Not because I've changed my view of things - but because of the GOP's move away from what I liked about their party (smaller government, individual rights) and more embraced the stuff I didn't like (social conservatism and warmongering). The GOP has moved right, and away from me.

 

When McCain was nominated though, I thought we'd seen the beginning of a shift back to the core values of the GOP that had been missing. I was torn on McCain v Obama. But alas, McCain must have been feeling the pressure from the right, because he was swung further right than he was, picked a far-right VP who also happens to be clueless, and has decided to run an intensely, insultingly negative campaign.

 

So, I'm on the left again.

 

[lostfan]

I can be persuaded to lean to the right but what turns me off:

-social conservatives

-flawed ideology (doesn't represent what it's supposed to)

-obnoxious patriotism, lumping honest self-criticism (especially of the party's policies) with being unpatriotic and hiding behind the flag

[mreye]

This election hasn't necessarily resulted in a flip for me. But, I have voted for more Republicans for President (2) than I have Democrats (1), and I've voted independent once. But in recent years, I am voting Dem more often. Not because I've changed my view of things - but because of the GOP's move away from what I liked about their party (smaller government, individual rights) and more embraced the stuff I didn't like (social conservatism and warmongering). The GOP has moved right, and away from me.

 

When McCain was nominated though, I thought we'd seen the beginning of a shift back to the core values of the GOP that had been missing. I was torn on McCain v Obama. But alas, McCain must have been feeling the pressure from the right, because he was swung further right than he was, picked a far-right VP who also happens to be clueless, and has decided to run an intensely, insultingly negative campaign.

 

So, I'm on the left again.

 

Ha! I believe the GOP and McCain has moved further left (His choice of Palin not withstanding) and away from me. All about perspective, I guess.

 

[Reddy]

Ha! I believe the GOP and McCain has moved further left (His choice of Palin not withstanding) and away from me. All about perspective, I guess.

left in terms of what? socially they've definitely moved more right.

[lostfan]

Ha! I believe the GOP and McCain has moved further left (His choice of Palin not withstanding) and away from me. All about perspective, I guess.

Bailout package aside, how has the GOP moved left? You could consider the spending leftist I guess, but that's directly linked to the aggressive foreign policy approach of Bush's first term. And they've completely abandoned civil liberties. Bush has moderated his environmental approach since he's in the "looking out for his legacy" phase, but the party's stance hasn't really changed. That's the only position McCain is really to the left on though.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ha! I believe the GOP and McCain has moved further left (His choice of Palin not withstanding) and away from me. All about perspective, I guess.

The only area I've seen them move left is on fiscal policy. If you know of another area where that has happened, I'd truly be curious what it is.

 

[lostfan]

The only area I've seen them move left is on fiscal policy. If you know of another area where that has happened, I'd truly be curious what it is.

I'm honestly trying to think of why somebody would think that. Bush giving concessions to the Democrats maybe? That shouldn't even count because that's the whole point of our system of government. A chief executive who doesn't work with his legislature is completely useless. (See: Rod Blagojevich, the truly pathetic thing being that his legislature is from his own party!)

Edited October 17, 2008 by lostfan

[mreye]

Bailout package aside, how has the GOP moved left? You could consider the spending leftist I guess, but that's directly linked to the aggressive foreign policy approach of Bush's first term. And they've completely abandoned civil liberties. Bush has moderated his environmental approach since he's in the "looking out for his legacy" phase, but the party's stance hasn't really changed. That's the only position McCain is really to the left on though.

 

 

McCain/Feingold

Government size

Fiscal responsibility / Balanced budget

Rescue plan

 

Other problems I have:

Never moving on Social Security reform

Poor execution of a border fence

Poor execution of Iraq war and justification for going

The entire party completely forgot what got them elected in '94 and abandoned the Contract with America

 

 

Many of these problems I have can be directly attributed to Bush, but IMO, McCain is way further left of where Bush was supposed to be in 2000. I had high hopes for him and he realy disappointed.

 

 

[lostfan]

McCain/Feingold

Government size

Fiscal responsibility / Balanced budget

Rescue plan

 

Other problems I have:

Never moving on Social Security reform

Poor execution of a border fence

Poor execution of Iraq war and justification for going

The entire party completely forgot what got them elected in '94 and abandoned the Contract with America

 

 

Many of these problems I have can be directly attributed to Bush, but IMO, McCain is way further left of where Bush was supposed to be in 2000. I had high hopes for him and he realy disappointed.

I would say that most of those things are a result of poor leadership within the party (it's fair to single out Bush for a lot of it too). They've seemed to be more concerned with who can be the most like Ronald Reagan and less with sticking to conservative principles. I agree that the party has lost its direction, but it's been due to questionable decisions, not moving to the left. They're just all over the map right now.