Proposition 8 in California

[whitesoxfan101]

Are civil unions legal in California? To me, civil unions and marriages are very different. I will say I'm not a fan of voiding already legal marriages though.

Edited November 5, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[NorthSideSox72]

For those that feel popular vote is always the best way to go... I give you Exhibit 8. There does need to be a consideration of minority opinion, especially when it is over the rights of a very few. I'll truely believe if they tried to popular vote other minority rights, such as womens/black vote, it would have lost decidely for much longer than it took Congress to get it right.

That's my feeling as well. When talking about protecting the rights of a minority, popular vote really isn't the answer.

 

[Texsox]

Are civil unions legal in California? To me, civil unions and marriages are very different. I will say I'm not a fan of voiding already legal marriages though.

 

I fail to see any difference between a civil union and a marriage. The two people involved after either event would have the same rights and privileges. On an emotional level is one couple less committed to the other than in the other couple? Are they any less in love? Are they any less a lifelong coupling? Currently is there a difference between a couple who gets married before a Judge and one who stands in front of Clergy? I have always failed to see a difference in the results of either event. If the results are the same and the relationship that each couple feels is the same, how can they be very different?

[Rex Kickass]

I fail to see any difference between a civil union and a marriage. The two people involved after either event would have the same rights and privileges. On an emotional level is one couple less committed to the other than in the other couple? Are they any less in love? Are they any less a lifelong coupling? Currently is there a difference between a couple who gets married before a Judge and one who stands in front of Clergy? I have always failed to see a difference in the results of either event. If the results are the same and the relationship that each couple feels is the same, how can they be very different?

 

I see a big difference. You cant file as married in a civil union on your federal tax returns. You have no federal rights as a couple in a civil union.

[Soxy]

Ugh. This is so incredibly disappointing. Should never ever ever be an issue that is legislated. This is government sponsored discrimination, and I am sick thinking about it.

[Texsox]

I see a big difference. You cant file as married in a civil union on your federal tax returns. You have no federal rights as a couple in a civil union.

 

I guess if that is what marriage means to you, then there is a difference. I stand corrected based on the current laws.However, every voter should realize (if they don't already) that eventually there will be total equality between civil unions and marriages. It goes step by step and the first step is the hardest.

[whitesoxfan101]

You cant file as married in a civil union on your federal tax returns. You have no federal rights as a couple in a civil union.

 

Well I did not know that, and that isn't right. I am for civil unions and them having true equal rights. I would just prefer gay couples be in front of a judge for their ceremony and have their relationship titled as a civil union and not a marriage. Beyond that, I think everything else should be the same in terms of rights in regards to gay and straight couples.

 

However, every voter should realize (if they don't already) that eventually there will be total equality between civil unions and marriages. It goes step by step and the first step is the hardest.

 

Hopefully you are right there.

Edited November 5, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Rex Kickass]

Well I did not know that, and that isn't right. I am for civil unions and them having true equal rights. I would just prefer gay couples be in front of a judge for their ceremony and have their relationship titled as a civil union and not a marriage. Beyond that, I think everything else should be the same in terms of rights in regards to gay and straight couples.

 

 

 

Hopefully you are right there.

 

I think that any civil union, marriage or otherwise should be fully equal regardless of it being same sex or multiple sex. That includes the name. We should get marriage if you get marriage. You should only get civil unions if that's what we get. Full and truly equal treatment under the law is what I believe should happen. If the government has to use a different name for marriage across the board, so be it.

 

The churches can do what they want on this issue privately - they do not guard my rights, the US government does.

[whitesoxfan101]

I think that any civil union, marriage or otherwise should be fully equal regardless of it being same sex or multiple sex. That includes the name. We should get marriage if you get marriage. You should only get civil unions if that's what we get. Full and truly equal treatment under the law is what I believe should happen. If the government has to use a different name for marriage across the board, so be it.

 

The churches can do what they want on this issue privately - they do not guard my rights, the US government does.

 

And this is probably how it will end up one day because I would assume most people like me aren't interested in spending time arguing over a word/the name of something. It clearly is going to take a while though, there is still a lot of anti-gay sentiments out there if the votes yesterday were any indication, and I think we can all agree that is sad.

Edited November 5, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[bmags]

Ugh. This is so incredibly disappointing. Should never ever ever be an issue that is legislated. This is government sponsored discrimination, and I am sick thinking about it.

 

Me too. One step forward, one step back. These are our fellow Americans, how could people do this?

[southsider2k5]

Ugh. This is so incredibly disappointing. Should never ever ever be an issue that is legislated. This is government sponsored discrimination, and I am sick thinking about it.

 

Technically that is backwards. The government legislated equality, and the people of California voted otherwise.

[Rex Kickass]

Technically that is backwards. The government legislated equality, and the people of California voted otherwise.

Actually the court legislated equality.

 

The legislature tried, and Arnold said no.

 

However, state AG Jerry Brown said that the existing marriages will remain valid.

[bmags]

Technically that is backwards. The government legislated equality, and the people of California voted otherwise.

 

Right, but this is now in their constitution, so it will be the government enforcing inequality. This is such a shadow over last night. How naive I was to think this would get shot down easily.

[Texsox]

If the government has to use a different name for marriage across the board, so be it.

 

In principle I am against this sort of sleight of hand to have something passed. Plus, I think it makes it harder, not easier to pass. People put up their defenses when they believe they are being tricked.

[whitesoxfan101]

Me too. One step forward, one step back. These are our fellow Americans, how could people do this?

 

Well that's easy. This country has addressed a lot of it's racial problems (as we saw last night), we've adressed a lot of things in regards to giving people with disabilities rights, ageism is something you don't even see as much anymore (as we saw with John McCain getting as far as he did). However, we haven't really done much to address our issues in regards to anti-gay sentiments.

[bmags]

Well that's easy. This country has addressed a lot of it's racial problems (as we saw last night), we've adressed a lot of things in regards to giving people with disabilities rights, ageism is something you don't even see as much anymore (as we saw with John McCain getting as far as he did). However, we haven't really done much to address our issues in regards to anti-gay sentiments.

 

I agree. But why? Perhaps its because it's so much more invisible in some ways. Everywhere I've lived and the people I've talked to in those places are severely saddened, kind of taken off guard that this would fail in California , there are such dramatic differences from town to town in terms of gay relations, but it's just hard for me to see how it exists. This is such a scrambled thought but I'm just wondering how the best way is to bring this up. Obama, this is an issue, take it up. And, take a stand for it.

[whitesoxfan101]

I agree. But why? Perhaps its because it's so much more invisible in some ways. Everywhere I've lived and the people I've talked to in those places are severely saddened, kind of taken off guard that this would fail in California , there are such dramatic differences from town to town in terms of gay relations, but it's just hard for me to see how it exists. This is such a scrambled thought but I'm just wondering how the best way is to bring this up. Obama, this is an issue, take it up. And, take a stand for it.

 

The fact that Prop 8 went the way it did in California really does say something, I was a bit surprised by that. I also read that the reason Prop 8 went the way it did was in large part due to african-american Obama voters, which I found kind of interesting. I don't think Obama will touch this issue though.

 

As for the reason why there is such a large group of anti-gay people in this country is it's just an issue that hasn't been addressed much. Combine that with the large evangelical peopulation, and the fact that the african american population tends to feel the way it does on this issue, and here we are.

[BigSqwert]

and the fact that the african american population tends to feel the way it does on this issue

 

Kudos to Kanye West for speaking out against this mind set among black youth.

[whitesoxfan101]

Kudos to Kanye West for speaking out against this mind set among black youth.

 

True, but you still hear "no homo" in a lot of rap songs right now. I'm not sure why this attitude is seen so often in the black community either.

[dasox24]

It was just brought to my attention earlier today that this proposition passed. I had no idea. I thought that with how liberal California is, it had no chance of passing.

[Balta1701]

It was just brought to my attention earlier today that this proposition passed. I had no idea. I thought that with how liberal California is, it had no chance of passing.

The "No on 8" campaign was pretty much an abject disaster.

 

This will not be the last time this battle is fought.

[santo=dorf]

Similar bills in Arizona (Prop 102) and Florida (Amendment 2) passed, and unlike in California, they both passed very easily. Yesterday was a good day to be an Obama supporter, but a bad day to be gay.

How do you think the 5 gay republicans in California feel?

[Rex Kickass]

The "No on 8" campaign was pretty much an abject disaster.

 

This will not be the last time this battle is fought.

 

And there is a legitimate argument to be made that Prop 8 is actually not a valid ballot initiative because it infringes on rights that should be considered innate.

 

The argument is that you can't put a ballot initiative to stop free speech for just women in California because its discriminatory and considered an overarching right intrinsic to the spirit of the constitution of California and based on the ruling legalizing gay marriage, this falls under the same umbrella.

[Chisoxfn]

How do you think the 5 gay republicans in California feel?

Why is it that my straight republican self is so up in arms over the fact that people are seriously still living in the stone-age and actually supported Prop 8. What a f***ing disgrace my state is.

[StrangeSox]

The insidious "Gay Agenda" of tolerance and acceptance for those who are different than you has been defeated once and for all.

 

 

I think the vote proves that Gays do not exist in California, just like in Iran.