Deal with the Rays?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If you're going to make this move, it's better to do Jenks for Jackson and a prospect (3B/CF/plus arm out of pen)

 

I think it's too risky to sell a star like Jenks for position prospects, but I'd do Jenks for Jackson and Morlan in a heartbeat. My original idea was to try to add Dye and work in another SP prospect too because that would allow the Sox to deal Javy for pitching. The Braves, Nats, and Mets all look like reasonable targets for Javy. JoJo Reyes + Cole Rohrbaugh, Joel Hanrahan + Josh Smoker, Jon Niese + Duaner Sanchez - those are the kinds of deals I'd like to see for Javy. If you want to send Dye elsewhere, what about to Texas for a deal centered around Eric Hurley?

 

Again, I don't know how realistic this would be, but if the Sox could end up trading Dye, Jenks, and Javy, and bring back Edwin Jackson, Eric Hurley, and Jon Niese to compete for two SP slots, and then add a potential future closer in Morlan to the front of the pen, and in the process drop about $26M off of payroll, deepen the farm, and get younger in the future, why not?

 

Dye is much more valuable to the White Sox than perhaps any team out there, because of the park he plays in...that's why he has led MLB RF'ers in home runs from 2005-2008.

 

I'm sure there are other places Dye can go to hit just as well. He is better at home than on the road, but he still hit 16 HR's away compared to 18 at home last year. The average and SLG% is down away, but that's like that with a lot of players. If you're saying Dye can't get the ball over the fence in other parks I think you're wrong and understating his power.

 

I'm not serious about Perez...although I would love to have Baldelli as a fourth outfielder, not sure that's realistic. But we are not going to get Carl Crawford or BJ Upton, end of story.

 

I don't want Baldelli. If he was perfectly healthy I'd love to pencil him in CF every day, but only playing a few days per week and sometimes not even full games is just waaaay too much hassle. Every spot on the 25-man roster is important, and I'd want the comfort of knowing that my fourth OF can play a full 9 innings three or four days in a row if necessary without collapsing on the field.

 

Yeah we're not getting BJ or CC but everybody knows that. Besides I wouldn't want to target players like that anyway. We need to take our few valuable but aging assets and continue to exchange them for a younger core. Targeting a Crawford or Upton type would require us to deal our core from several areas to become significantly better in one, and then we'd have to fill the new holes we've opened with older players again.

 

If we really are serious thinking that Jenks' value (and fastball) have peaked, and this is certainly the window of time when he is most valuable to another team (before he hits Free Agency and gets an even bigger contract)...then KW will take that risk. I just don't think he does it unless he feels 100% confident in either Thornton or Russell.

 

The White Sox have shown time and time again (Howry, Foulke, Takatsu, Hermanson, Jenks...Koch was the only "name" reliever and his name was mud quickly enough) that they have the ability to find "under the radar" closers who don't cost tons of money. As someone mentioned, is the difference between a 75 and 85% save conversion rate worth having an extra $12 million to play around with and a young/affordable/high potential starter in Edwin Jackson that's under our control for X number of years? However, as the Indians and Tigers have learned (and we saw during the Koch Era), not having a legit closer can have disastrous results on overall team morale.

Not having a legit closer can really hurt, but it helps to have a pitcher who is 1) not a headcase, 2) has at least pretty good control, 3) is generally healthy over an entire season, and 4) has good enough stuff to get hitters out. Thornton fits that criteria and many of the guys that teams like the Tigs and Indians have trotted out there do not. When you put garbage on the mound you should at some point expect garbage results, and thankfully Thornton isn't garbage.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[3E8]

Besides, the guy you offer to Tampa would be Octavio.

That would be a shrewd pickup for them, he'll be worth 2 draft picks after next season as a type A free agent

Edited October 31, 2008 by 3E8

[Heads22]

That would be a shrewd pickup for them, he'll be worth 2 draft picks after next season as a type A free agent

 

I'm not honestly sure how that works.

 

That and I'm not totally confident his arm won't fall off.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Besides, the guy you offer to Tampa would be Octavio.

Octavio is off the books after '09 and barring a total collapse next year will bring Type A compensation. Even though he gets bumped up to I believe $6M next year, he's still affordable. In order for the Sox to give up Type A comp in 2010 plus open up a hole in the bullpen and only get $6M in salary relief they would have to be bowled over, and I doubt any team is going to give up the type of talent necessary to do that when they could just sign a reliever on the open market. With Jenks it is another story because he's under control for a while still.

[caulfield12]

I think it's too risky to sell a star like Jenks for position prospects, but I'd do Jenks for Jackson and Morlan in a heartbeat. My original idea was to try to add Dye and work in another SP prospect too because that would allow the Sox to deal Javy for pitching. The Braves, Nats, and Mets all look like reasonable targets for Javy. JoJo Reyes + Cole Rohrbaugh, Joel Hanrahan + Josh Smoker, Jon Niese + Duaner Sanchez - those are the kinds of deals I'd like to see for Javy. If you want to send Dye elsewhere, what about to Texas for a deal centered around Eric Hurley?

 

Again, I don't know how realistic this would be, but if the Sox could end up trading Dye, Jenks, and Javy, and bring back Edwin Jackson, Eric Hurley, and Jon Niese to compete for two SP slots, and then add a potential future closer in Morlan to the front of the pen, and in the process drop about $26M off of payroll, deepen the farm, and get younger in the future, why not?

 

 

 

I'm sure there are other places Dye can go to hit just as well. He is better at home than on the road, but he still hit 16 HR's away compared to 18 at home last year. The average and SLG% is down away, but that's like that with a lot of players. If you're saying Dye can't get the ball over the fence in other parks I think you're wrong and understating his power.

 

 

 

I don't want Baldelli. If he was perfectly healthy I'd love to pencil him in CF every day, but only playing a few days per week and sometimes not even full games is just waaaay too much hassle. Every spot on the 25-man roster is important, and I'd want the comfort of knowing that my fourth OF can play a full 9 innings three or four days in a row if necessary without collapsing on the field.

 

Yeah we're not getting BJ or CC but everybody knows that. Besides I wouldn't want to target players like that anyway. We need to take our few valuable but aging assets and continue to exchange them for a younger core. Targeting a Crawford or Upton type would require us to deal our core from several areas to become significantly better in one, and then we'd have to fill the new holes we've opened with older players again.

 

 

Not having a legit closer can really hurt, but it helps to have a pitcher who is 1) not a headcase, 2) has at least pretty good control, 3) is generally healthy over an entire season, and 4) has good enough stuff to get hitters out. Thornton fits that criteria and many of the guys that teams like the Tigs and Indians have trotted out there do not. When you put garbage on the mound you should at some point expect garbage results, and thankfully Thornton isn't garbage.

 

Actually, Zumaya and Rodney have very good stuff, they just don't always execute...even Dolsi to a lesser extent.

 

Now the Indians are a different story...they deserved the problems they got going into last season as they did what THAT pen.

[caulfield12]

Octavio is off the books after '09 and barring a total collapse next year will bring Type A compensation. Even though he gets bumped up to I believe $6M next year, he's still affordable. In order for the Sox to give up Type A comp in 2010 plus open up a hole in the bullpen and only get $6M in salary relief they would have to be bowled over, and I doubt any team is going to give up the type of talent necessary to do that when they could just sign a reliever on the open market. With Jenks it is another story because he's under control for a while still.

 

Do you really feel confident Dotel will stay 100% healthy for another season? I'm not so sure. We shall see.

 

Would you, as another team's GM, sign Octavio Dotel if it meant giving up two high draft picks? I wouldn't even consider it for a nano-second.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Do you really feel confident Dotel will stay 100% healthy for another season? I'm not so sure. We shall see.

 

Would you, as another team's GM, sign Octavio Dotel if it meant giving up two high draft picks? I wouldn't even consider it for a nano-second.

I wouldn't either, but some team will sign him.

 

I'm sure either of us could go through the Type A and Type B free agents of this offseason and pick out a bunch of guys we wouldn't sign even if we didn't have to give up any draft picks. Just off the top of my head, Orlando Cabrera is one. He's going to want at least 3 years and probably $12M+ per as he declines. Hell no. Some team will salivate over him though.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Actually, Zumaya and Rodney have very good stuff, they just don't always execute...even Dolsi to a lesser extent.

 

Now the Indians are a different story...they deserved the problems they got going into last season as they did what THAT pen.

Yeah some of the Tigers guys have good stuff, but that's why I listed the four criteria: staying healthy, having good stuff, not being a headcase, and no major control problems. Most RP fail in at least one of those areas, and that makes guys like Thornton special. It wasn't too long ago that the Tigers counted Todd Jones as their most reliable reliever. Yuck.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[witesoxfan]

The problem I see with Dotel's Type A status is that he may not find a better offer on the market than the $6 mill, give or take, he'd be slated to get with the Sox in arbitration. You'd be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

That being said, I wouldn't trade Dotel for his actual value...you'd absolutely have to get more simply because you could get two compensatory picks for him. I don't know how much more, but getting more would be a necessity. I brought up Carlos Villanueva in a hypothetical deal I brought up with Milwaukee, and I'd be OK with that. Villanueva was very good out of the pen this past season and, from what I've seen of him, looks to be a future setup man. That's the type of deal I would consider - getting a pitcher who could be just as good or has been just as good and has more cheap years left. Perhaps that would be Edwin Jackson, and I'd personally have no problem putting Jackson in either the pen or the rotation, because I think he could be successful in either spot.

 

In short, I'm saying you have to trade Dotel as if he's a solid closer or dynamite setup man, which quite frankly, he is.

[BearSox]

If we dealt with the Rays, one guy I would love to get is Willy Aybar. I was very impressed with his approach and swing this postseason. He went up there ready to hit. Plus, he's a switch hitter who can play all the infield spots decently and could probably learn the corner OF spots as well.

[Steve9347]

And the random trade threads begin. I believe it's time to open up the trade winds again.

 

I don't want to have to sort through 5 million "Sox should get Crawford" or whatever threads.

[Kyyle23]

And the random trade threads begin. I believe it's time to open up the trade winds again.

 

I don't want to have to sort through 5 million "Sox should get Crawford" or whatever threads.

 

 

Dont lie, you know you love it

[3E8]

Would you, as another team's GM, sign Octavio Dotel if it meant giving up two high draft picks? I wouldn't even consider it for a nano-second.

The team that signs him only has to give up one draft pick and depending on where they finished in the standings, it may be a 2nd rounder

[elrockinMT]

Dealing Dye to the Giants for prospects would make the most sense.

 

He's from the Bay area and the Giants could use a power corner outfielder.

 

Actually keeping Dye makes more sense to me

[Steve9347]

Dont lie, you know you love it

I do not love it.

[Lemon_44]

Use Jenks in a deal to get Beltran from the Mets.Of course, they could just go out and sign K-rod.

[CanOfCorn]

Use Jenks in a deal to get Beltran from the Mets.Of course, they could just go out and sign K-rod.

 

Should this be in green?

[letsgoarow]

Morlan is not that great. He pitched for my team all year here. Also i dont think WD 40 is all hes cracked up to be. Also Mcgee is coming off of Tommy John Surgery. Also Niemann got ripped in the bigs....

 

ok that is all.

 

I watched all these guys almost the entire year.