Trading Vazquez a "priority"

[JohnCangelosi]

So we'll trade Javy and have 3 SP's next year and have two open spots to fill in the rotation. Hmmmm....is there anyone else thinking we just need to find a FOURTH STARTER and make Javy the Fifth??????It reminds me of all the bad mouthing Garland took prior to the 05 season, people wanting him out....Guillen had to calm people down by telling him "he's the fifth starter!" prior to the season...this way Javy doesnt start in the playoffs and you can move the rotation around a bit in September to give him the Royals instead of the Twins.

 

I don't trust Javy in big games or in the playoffs but good luck finding another guy who can get you 12-14 wins and 200 + IP in the FA market guys...have we forgotten how friggin hard it is to find a guy like that???? What did A.J. Burnett go for in the open market??? 5 yrs and $55 Million? Trading him for a position player almost guarantees we're forced to sign someone to a $10+M long term deal unless we want to take a one year flyer on a washed up SP and either option only makes us MORE UNSTABLE in the starting staff.

 

I'd rather us just go and get a #4, really. Put Javy in the 5 spot and just leave it at that.

 

I don't get where everyone thinks its EASY to find someone who can get 12-14 wins with 200 IP and 200 K's on the market....

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

So we'll trade Javy and have 3 SP's next year and have two open spots to fill in the rotation. Hmmmm....is there anyone else thinking we just need to find a FOURTH STARTER and make Javy the Fifth??????It reminds me of all the bad mouthing Garland took prior to the 05 season, people wanting him out....Guillen had to calm people down by telling him "he's the fifth starter!" prior to the season...this way Javy doesnt start in the playoffs and you can move the rotation around a bit in September to give him the Royals instead of the Twins.

 

I don't trust Javy in big games or in the playoffs but good luck finding another guy who can get you 12-14 wins and 200 + IP in the FA market guys...have we forgotten how friggin hard it is to find a guy like that???? What did A.J. Burnett go for in the open market??? 5 yrs and $55 Million? Trading him for a position player almost guarantees we're forced to sign someone to a $10+M long term deal unless we want to take a one year flyer on a washed up SP and either option only makes us MORE UNSTABLE in the starting staff.

 

I'd rather us just go and get a #4, really. Put Javy in the 5 spot and just leave it at that.

 

I don't get where everyone thinks its EASY to find someone who can get 12-14 wins with 200 IP and 200 K's on the market....

Who cares about his strikeouts if he loses? Everyone mentions his 200 k's. Did you see him perform the last month of the season? Did you see him when he was with the Yankees? Did you see him when the White Sox were contending in 2006? He was below average. $11 million or $12 million is too much to spend on a #5 starter. The White Sox would be foolish not to trade him if a team is offering more than it would for a typical #4 or #5 starter for his services. He cannot be relied upon to win, unless you plan on having a bad team.

[GreatScott82]

Who cares about his strikeouts if he loses? Everyone mentions his 200 k's. Did you see him perform the last month of the season? Did you see him when he was with the Yankees? Did you see him when the White Sox were contending in 2006? He was below average. $11 million or $12 million is too much to spend on a #5 starter. The White Sox would be foolish not to trade him if a team is offering more than it would for a typical #4 or #5 starter for his services. He cannot be relied upon to win, unless you plan on having a bad team.

excellent post!

[kwolf68]

 

YES. Just move this stiff. Vazquez is a loser. The White Sox need winners to win. Be gone Javvy.

[CanOfCorn]

Ramirez, Wise, Ozuna (when he was here), Cabrera, Uribe (the somewhat skinnier version)

 

Great, Wise, Ozuna, Cabrera and possibly Uribe will all be gone. None of them had great OBP, so they weren't on base enough for it to matter. I mean, c'mon, from batter number 3 to 8 when Crede was here, my grandmother could have outrun all of them.

 

And for singles hitters...here's the thing...we don't have any, at all. It would be nice to have at least one. Put him at 9. I mean, c'mon, we need some hitters that aren't trying to hit the concourse all the time. As much as I love a bunch of these guys, and they fit the Cell well, 81 of our games aren't played there. Let's get some hitters here.

[elrockinMT]

So, we're going to go with more 'speed', but bad defense? Sounds like a plan!

 

 

Makes sense doesn't it? They can run after the balls they boot faster

[RockRaines]

Who cares about his strikeouts if he loses? Everyone mentions his 200 k's. Did you see him perform the last month of the season? Did you see him when he was with the Yankees? Did you see him when the White Sox were contending in 2006? He was below average. $11 million or $12 million is too much to spend on a #5 starter. The White Sox would be foolish not to trade him if a team is offering more than it would for a typical #4 or #5 starter for his services. He cannot be relied upon to win, unless you plan on having a bad team.

Love it. Quite frankly, this is not a guy you want on your team if you want to contend for the World Series.

[nitetrain8601]

I'm mentally prepared to see Clayton be our fifth starter.

[flavum]

I could deal with Richard being the 5th starter, but I think he'd be a helluva lot more valuable as a second lefty out of the pen, and a spot starter.

[YASNY]

I have no problem with Richard getting the shot at the 5th starter slot. I know his stats weren't very good at all, but he showed me a mound presence that I thought was impressive. All he needs is to learn how to pitch in the Majors, and there's only one way to do that.

[Balta1701]

I have no problem with Richard getting the shot at the 5th starter slot. I know his stats weren't very good at all, but he showed me a mound presence that I thought was impressive. All he needs is to learn how to pitch in the Majors, and there's only one way to do that.

I could live with Richard getting the 5th starter spot...but I don't think I could live with Richard getting the 5th starter spot if Vazquez is the 4th starter. Not in the AL I don't think we could. If Danks/Floyd is considered starter #4 because Kenny pulls off something that upgrades that spot or at least is a lateral move to someone who I can count on a little more down the stretch, then I could gamble on the Richard/Broadway/Poreda/Contreras/etc. 5th starter spot.

[BearSox]

Trading Vazquez might fill one of the holes at 2B, 3B, or CF, but trading him would also leave us with two big vacancies in the rotation.

 

Also, I'm gonna let everyone know now, Clayton Richard is going to be a disaster of a MLB starter. His best shot is somewhere in the NL as a 5th or long man.

Edited November 1, 2008 by BearSox

[knightni]

Do you think that the Brewers would trade Hardy and Carlos Villanueva for Vazquez?

[greg775]

His best shot is somewhere in the NL as a 5th or long man.

 

How do we know this? He seemed like he had potential to me.

[joeynach]

I would be very careful treading this water if I was KW. Trading Vazquez is fine, but going into the season with Buehrle, Danks, Flloyd, and Richard is risky. Not only is that 3 lefties, but Danks and Floyd had career years. It would be wise to expect some regression from those two guys and Richard himself is still a huge question mark.

[caulfield12]

Whatever you say about Vazquez, he gives you pretty much near-certainty of 200 IP, around a 4.3-4.7 ERA, lots of strikeouts (for Roto players), a .500 record, 30+ starts and maddening inconsistency...the question is where or how we get that from someone else?

 

Can we acquire another pitcher for less than $11.5 million that will give us the same thing on the FA market? If we can do that, which is far from a certainty, then you can move Vazquez and fix some of the holes in the bullpen, 3B, 2B/SS and CF.

[BearSox]

How do we know this? He seemed like he had potential to me.

From what I have seen from Richard is that he doesn't have the stuff to be much better than a AAAA player.

[caulfield12]

He pitched about as well as any of the Sox pitchers this post-season (Dotel looked good, too)...he certainly had a couple of pretty good starts that gives SOME hope for the guy, he didn't get completely blasted and disappear into oblivion like Arnie Munoz.

 

I think of him as Mike Porzio or Josh Stewart with better stuff, lol.

[YASNY]

Trading Vazquez might fill one of the holes at 2B, 3B, or CF, but trading him would also leave us with two big vacancies in the rotation.

 

Also, I'm gonna let everyone know now, Clayton Richard is going to be a disaster of a MLB starter. His best shot is somewhere in the NL as a 5th or long man.

 

I'll go on record as saying that I think Richard will eventually be an effective ML starter.

[scenario]

From what I have seen from Richard is that he doesn't have the stuff to be much better than a AAAA player.

 

I understand why some people would think that.

 

He really only threw 2 pitches with command during his short time up this year (fastball and slider).

 

But...

 

He has two other pitches that were very effective in the minors (curveball and change).

 

If, with a little MLB experience and maturity, he starts throwing those where he wants them with regularity... he's going to be a very effective MLB pitcher.

 

[Whitewashed in '05]

He pitched about as well as any of the Sox pitchers this post-season (Dotel looked good, too)...he certainly had a couple of pretty good starts that gives SOME hope for the guy, he didn't get completely blasted and disappear into oblivion like Arnie Munoz.

 

I think of him as Mike Porzio or Josh Stewart with better stuff, lol.

 

Oh god you mentioned some pretty bad names there... bad memories. Arnie getting trashed by the Expos... wow

[ILMOU]

His defense was brutal this season according to defensive statistics, and I thought he lacked concentration an awful lot during the 2nd half of the season. Ramirez is not efficient at diving for grounders, as he seems like he should have better range than he actually does. Ramirez's best asset at 2nd was his ability to turn the double play.

 

Defensive statistics are essentially worthless. A guy that "hogs" pop-up outs (like Uribe) will appear to have a better range factor, for instance. If you watched Alexei play all year, as I assume you did, I can't believe you'd make such a statement. Alexei will be fine at SS - better than fine.

[ILMOU]

First half of the season I would agree with you, as I thought he was GG caliber. I thought he was terrible defensively in the second half of the season.

 

He had some lapses of concentration. Nowhere near terrible.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

It should be a priority, it's proven and irrefutable fact that Vazquez can be nothing but a detriment in September and October for a playoff type team due to his lack of mental strength. At the same time, he does put up decent numbers at the end of the day so you should be able to get something for him.

Edited November 2, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[joeynach]

I am going to go on record and say the Sox sign Jon Garland if they trade vazquez. Garland will post similar #s, the same he always does, maybe he gives KW a discount. Like 3 years 27 mil.