joeynach Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 03:09 PM) Almost everyone on the site wants Vazquez gone, yet Garland put up worse numbers across the board on a better team and bigger ballpark. Was he not a 12-14 win pitcher with an ERA between 4.2-4.5 every year while he was here...less his 05 career year of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 03:38 PM) So if we sign Freddy Garcia, are you expecting him to be the same pitcher he was when he had him the 1st time? Garcia has had surgery and been out of baseball and has had a considerable loss in velocity and effectiveness. Ur asking me to compare apples to oranges. The point was someone said if KW can trade Vazquez to fill other holes and replace his mediocre #s with someone more affordable (and less frustrating) then he would probably do it. Well all Im saying is Garland might be that replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 03:42 PM) Garcia has had surgery and been out of baseball and has had a considerable loss in velocity and effectiveness. Ur asking me to compare apples to oranges. The point was someone said if KW can trade Vazquez to fill other holes and replace his mediocre #s with someone more affordable (and less frustrating) then he would probably do it. Well all Im saying is Garland might be that replacement. Garland won't be "affordable" in his walk year, he's going to get an 8-10m contract from somebody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 2, 2008 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 02:42 PM) Garcia has had surgery and been out of baseball and has had a considerable loss in velocity and effectiveness. Ur asking me to compare apples to oranges. The point was someone said if KW can trade Vazquez to fill other holes and replace his mediocre #s with someone more affordable (and less frustrating) then he would probably do it. Well all Im saying is Garland might be that replacement. so the knot in Garland's shoulder brings you absolutely no fear at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 04:14 PM) so the knot in Garland's shoulder brings you absolutely no fear at all? About as much as Konerkos degenerative hip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 (edited) I don't think we'll see Garland back here again...and I'm not so certain he won't get more than $9 million per season and more than three years...we'll see. He's still an incredibly young (and up until this point) durable/reliable pitcher, in a similar way to Vazquez, but with a much better post-season record. Maybe he'll end up with the Giants, Padres, Dodgers, D-Backs, Rockies, Mariners...just have the sense he wants to stay close to the Left Coast. Then again, the Yankees or Mets come calling and pack your bags, it's off to Gotham City. But I don't see him really desiring to play in a place like NY, Boston or Philadelphia and dealing with the writers' persistent questions. Edited November 2, 2008 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 You are also assuming Garland wants to play for the Sox again, and I would say that is a big, fat, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 03:43 PM) About as much as Konerkos degenerative hip which is such a huge concern that it has never limited him at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (YASNY @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 10:35 AM) I'll go on record as saying that I think Richard will eventually be an effective ML starter. Ill take that bet. I think he is a pen arm in the majors with sporatic starts at first until he is put into the Loogy role for his career. Half of the guy's effectiveness is deception, which is great when you see a lineup once through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Nov 2, 2008 -> 08:22 PM) You are also assuming Garland wants to play for the Sox again, and I would say that is a big, fat, no. Yeah JG has said as much in the press, I'd say there's little chance he'll be pitching for us come 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 08:32 AM) Ill take that bet. I think he is a pen arm in the majors with sporatic starts at first until he is put into the Loogy role for his career. Half of the guy's effectiveness is deception, which is great when you see a lineup once through. I don't know what bet you are talking about, but since your opinion is respected here let's just respectfully disagree and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Everyone wants to get rid of Javy it seems but NO ONE has come up with a plan to fill the now TWO OPEN spots in the rotation with the exception of taking a flyer on Richard who hasn't done dick and sign a FA who would cost the same and probably put up worse numbers than Javy...I understand the frustration with the guy that's why you make him A FIFTH f***ING STARTER!!! He's not a bad #5 guys Mercy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 05:55 PM) Everyone wants to get rid of Javy it seems but NO ONE has come up with a plan to fill the now TWO OPEN spots in the rotation with the exception of taking a flyer on Richard who hasn't done dick and sign a FA who would cost the same and probably put up worse numbers than Javy...I understand the frustration with the guy that's why you make him A FIFTH f***ING STARTER!!! He's not a bad #5 guys Mercy Not everyone wants to get rid of Javy, but your point is well taken. Actually for what he gave us he is better than a 5th starter. Remember the disaster we saw with Danny Wright et al. We probbaly wil sdee Javy in '09 anyway because of the injury to Contreras. We will be hard pressed to fill 2 starting spots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) The only way I see us possibly trading Javy is if: a.) we sign Derek Lowe; or b.) make a trade for another starter. I understand people's frustration with Javy, but KW is not going to go into spring training with only 3 veteran starters. And outside of Lowe, the free agent class of starting pitchers sucks. If Javy was available, he'd be at the top of the list right behind Lowe. Edited November 3, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 How about Vazquez for Atkins and Taveras, then we sign Lowe 3/36. Taveraz bats 9th and plays CF. We could flip Atkins or trade fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (striker62704 @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 02:18 PM) How about Vazquez for Atkins and Taveras, then we sign Lowe 3/36. Taveraz bats 9th and plays CF. We could flip Atkins or trade fields. How about we don’t have an injury-prone guy whose average season has an OPB of 331, and a slugging of .337 starting in an American League Lineup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 07:25 PM) How about we don’t have an injury-prone guy whose average season has an OPB of 331, and a slugging of .337 starting in an American League Lineup? I assume you are referring to Taveras? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Vazquez is not the Sox only chip to trade. If he was traded, they have several other pieces they can deal to bring in another solid starter, along with incentive laden contracts to guys like Garcia or Colon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (striker62704 @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 01:18 PM) How about Vazquez for Atkins and Taveras, then we sign Lowe 3/36. Taveraz bats 9th and plays CF. We could flip Atkins or trade fields. Also, this would not work. Vazquez has a no trade clause to all 9 teams in the West, and Atkins is brutal defensively. The Sox pitching staff is good in part because the infield defense is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 10:55 AM) Everyone wants to get rid of Javy it seems but NO ONE has come up with a plan to fill the now TWO OPEN spots in the rotation with the exception of taking a flyer on Richard who hasn't done dick and sign a FA who would cost the same and probably put up worse numbers than Javy...I understand the frustration with the guy that's why you make him A FIFTH f***ING STARTER!!! He's not a bad #5 guys Mercy He is for $12 mil a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Let the Mets rumors begin. Please don't trade for Heilman! http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1769835.story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 08:33 PM) Let the Mets rumors begin. Please don't trade for Heilman! http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1769835.story Unlike the last couple years, I'm not sure there's anything I really want from the Mets right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 05:44 AM) Unlike the last couple years, I'm not sure there's anything I really want from the Mets right now. agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Good, now get Atlanta on the phone. Call up the Rangers who love K guys. See if Houston is interested. Get some conversations going with the Nationals and Phillies if possible. Despite Javy's piss-poor end of '08, if he had hit the FA market he'd be just behind Burnett and maybe Lowe in the FA class. The only clear, significant upgrade is CC. Dempster had a career year after relieving, can he keep that up? Sheets is never healthy for a full season. Burnett is just as hit-or-miss as Javy. Lowe is old and is coming from the NL. Garland continued to decline in an environment that appeared to favor slight improvement. Javy gives 200 IP, is under control below market for 2 seasons, has good stuff, has the peripheral stats, and is a good bet to continue staying healthy. Let's get a bidding war going, Kenny. Don't sell low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 11:44 PM) Unlike the last couple years, I'm not sure there's anything I really want from the Mets right now. Pitching prospects. We're not getting Fernando Martinez, but I think if the Sox can get their hands on about 3-4 legit SP prospects with ceilings of #3 or higher by trading a slugger and Javy, they could sign a reclamation project veteran and hold an open competition for two rotation spots. When the difference between a guy who can reasonably be expected to put up an ERA of like 5.00 or better over 170-180IP and a guy who can be expected to put up an ERA in the mid-to-high 4's over 200+IP is about $12-13M+ on the free agent market, we should take advantage of that and look to get younger, better, and cheaper. If we're going to spend $11.5 on Javy the 4th/5th starter, I'd rather give an insane deal to a legit ace and fill another hole with a pre-arb guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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