Milkman delivers Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 This offseason is already going very well, with all of the recent news. I also can't wait to drop this guy so I don't have to see his name spelled incorrectly every other post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 02:53 PM) If they were to get Hardy for SS, I would guarantee the Sox traded for Tavares in CF. Unless Taveras could get his OBP back above .350, I'd rather have Weeks to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Please no Rickie Weeks on the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 12:12 PM) He also had the 3rd worst RZR (revised zone rating) in the game and by far the least OOZ (plays out of zone) of any 2B in the game which lends credence to those who believe his range was actually mediocre for a player with his speed. (myself included) And not that the stat means anything but Alexei's FPct was the 12th best out of only 17 qualified 2B that puts him in the bottom 3rd. I hadn't see his OOZ or RZR (and where did you find those, BTW?). I still think that stats don't tell a great story on defense. Alexei made more simple mistakes than a 2B should, but overall, I still think he's above average there. And again, he was learning a new position. I'd suspect he'll make an overall average SS, especially once he can get some regular playing time there. Of course, with his arm, speed and instincts, I wonder how well he might be able to adapt to CF if given enough time there. I haven't seen him play there enough to feel confident one way or the other as to his ability to get good jumps and make good reads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 01:00 PM) Unless Taveras could get his OBP back above .350, I'd rather have Weeks to be honest. I'd rather go with Owens than Taveras. But I'd REALLY rather do NEITHER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 03:11 PM) I'd rather go with Owens than Taveras. But I'd REALLY rather do NEITHER. Well I wouldn't go that far. Taveras did steal over 60 bases this season. But it all depends on him getting back together hitting wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Brian Roberts could very easily be target #1 for the Sox this offseason, and anything else beyond that be damned. He makes a ridiculous amount of sense for the Sox and is a guy that Williams would overpay to get here, especially if he could get him signed to an extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 02:17 PM) With a .308 OBP. I thought Owens lost a step last year, but was also dealing with injuries. I hate Jerry Owens, but if he somehow did manage 500 AB's, I could see him swiping 40-45, with a terrible OBP, and an even worse slugging. That was basically my thoughts. Owens would probably put up Taveras-like numbers, and we already have him, and don't have to give anything up to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 07:35 PM) That was basically my thoughts. Owens would probably put up Taveras-like numbers, and we already have him, and don't have to give anything up to get him. Taveras is a significantly better player than Owens. He has a great arm in CF, and he knows how to hit with his speed a lot better than Owens does. Taveras gets a crazy amount of infield hits...and Owens has never proven crap in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 02:43 PM) Taveras is a significantly better player than Owens. He has a great arm in CF, and he knows how to hit with his speed a lot better than Owens does. Taveras gets a crazy amount of infield hits...and Owens has never proven crap in the majors. Which is why Taveras is a more valuable player. I still really want nothing to do with either of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 02:43 PM) Taveras is a significantly better player than Owens. He has a great arm in CF, and he knows how to hit with his speed a lot better than Owens does. Taveras gets a crazy amount of infield hits...and Owens has never proven crap in the majors. I just disagree that Taveras is significantly better. Other than the arm, I'd put them on par. And getting JO plus a better arm isn't worth much to me. Again, better to have neither in your starting lineup. I'd be fine with Owens on the bench, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 08:53 PM) Is Taveras really what this team needs? He had 18 XBH in 133 games in 2008. Without watching too many Rockie games(thank God), Taveras found a way on 1st, stole 2nd, and hopefully was driven in. Unless this lineup gets a drastic make over( I don't see it), their strong suit isn't situational hitting. Absolutely not...I could care less about adding speed. I want to add talented players at 2b, 3b, and CF. Like you said, with situational hitting not being a strong suit, I'd rather just add to the mashers we already have. Unfortunately, I'm about 99% sure that our lack of speed is the scapegoat in the minds of KW and Ozzie. It's going to be frustrating when we overpay for a speed guy (just like trading C. Lee for Pods). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Anybody know much about Rangers prospect Elvis Andrus and if they're high enough on him they might be inclined to move Michael Young for Javy? ...and people think Vazquez has a bad contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 02:03 PM) ...and people think Vazquez has a bad contract. Good Lord!?!....wasn't aware of that albatross. Next.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) Willy Taveras is a much better baseball player than Owens because he can play CF very well, versus Owens who cannot play CF at all with his arm. There is no reason to go any further. Owens is a LF and a very poor hitting one at that. Owens will hurt the team on both sides of the field. Taveras will only hurt you on one. Taveras wouldn't bother me at all because he's had good years every year in the Majors except for last season. If the Sox feel he'll turn it around he's very much worth a shot. Worse case scenario you hit him 9th and add some CF defense and speed to the bottom of the order. If he's too bad to hit 9th, play Brian Anderson. He's proven he deserves a shot anyway. I don't want to see the Sox add a guy like Taveras however, who is coming off a very poor offensive year, and tab him as the lead-off guy just because he is fast. If they want a lead-off guy they should go after Roberts or Figgins, both as second baseman if Fields is expected to be a starter. Adding speed like Taveras could work out very well if you get a real lead-off guy and make Taveras the #9 hitter and make him beat out Brian Anderson in ST. Adding speed and defense at premium positions at the expense of offense is fine with me. I just don't want to see the Sox go with a slap-hitting speedster at a power position. That means no Owens, no way, no how. If I could be GM for the Sox for one day, the first thing I would do would be trade Jerry Owens to whoever wants him for absolutely nothing, just so I'd know I'd never have to hear his name in the conversation for starting CF ever again. Edited October 31, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 02:59 PM) Absolutely not...I could care less about adding speed. I want to add talented players at 2b, 3b, and CF. Like you said, with situational hitting not being a strong suit, I'd rather just add to the mashers we already have. Unfortunately, I'm about 99% sure that our lack of speed is the scapegoat in the minds of KW and Ozzie. It's going to be frustrating when we overpay for a speed guy (just like trading C. Lee for Pods). I personally agree with KW and Ozzie that this team needs more speed. Now, that does not mean I think we should go get a speed demon who is otherwise worthless, nor am I saying that stolen bases are what I'd like to see. I'm saying that improving team speed would be very helpful, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 04:33 PM) What this team needs was obviously in May. BALANCE. It needs balance. The offense Williams built was just too one dimensional to sustain any sort of consistency. Luckily, Williams picked the right dimension to have in power. The core is in place. What is needed this off-season is a couple of bookends to surround the power. Yes on all. And I would prefer those bookends to be long on OBP, speed and/or defense, if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The scary part is that Ramirez might be worse defensively at SS than Fields is at 3rd and Weeks is at 2nd. I'm kind of scared about Lexi at ss as well. As mediocre as OC was and that stupid blowup in the playoffs which accomplished nothing, it was pretty comforting to see a ball hit to OC and realize it was going to be an out. Normally ... I realize he kicked some, but he was a pretty good ss. Lexi like fathom said was kind of a loose cannon at times even at 2B. I wish we'd sign Renteria and give him a try and keep Lexi put at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 While Vazquez may not be traded for a pending free agent, I do see the sox getting a guy who they may let walk after 2009 and get draft picks for, ala Orlando Cabrera. Vazquez has more value than a deal straight up for a guy in his walk year, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 The problem with this team isn't base-stealing speed. The problem is 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home. That's the kind of speed we need, not Owens, not Taveras, but more like Quentin or Anderson. If they steal a base, great...but taking an extra base is more important with this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 06:48 PM) If they steal a base, great...but taking an extra base is more important with this team. You're assuming that somebody coming up with somebody on 1st or 2nd could actually get a basehit instead of swingin' for the fences. That's what we're missing. Edited November 1, 2008 by Wanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 06:48 PM) The problem with this team isn't base-stealing speed. The problem is 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home. That's the kind of speed we need, not Owens, not Taveras, but more like Quentin or Anderson. If they steal a base, great...but taking an extra base is more important with this team. Ramirez, Wise, Ozuna (when he was here), Cabrera, Uribe (the somewhat skinnier version) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 04:36 PM) I'm kind of scared about Lexi at ss as well. As mediocre as OC was and that stupid blowup in the playoffs which accomplished nothing, it was pretty comforting to see a ball hit to OC and realize it was going to be an out. Normally ... I realize he kicked some, but he was a pretty good ss. Lexi like fathom said was kind of a loose cannon at times even at 2B. I wish we'd sign Renteria and give him a try and keep Lexi put at 2B. Anybody think the problems Alexei had were due to the fact that he was playing a new position, in a new league, in a new country. I think he played pretty well considering all of the adjustments he had to make. I have no doubt that if he was left at 2B to learn he would be a very good defensive 2B and not have the inconsistent season like he did this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 (edited) Absolutely not...I could care less about adding speed. I want to add talented players at 2b, 3b, and CF. Like you said, with situational hitting not being a strong suit, I'd rather just add to the mashers we already have. Unfortunately, I'm about 99% sure that our lack of speed is the scapegoat in the minds of KW and Ozzie. It's going to be frustrating when we overpay for a speed guy (just like trading C. Lee for Pods). I'd have to agree with fathom again. It is going to be frustrating if we add singles hitters who are fast. Like he said, just add talented players. Not somebody who can't even hit a double. We are going to need a decent replacement for Vazquez on the mound as well. I just think Kenny should trade one of the big boppers in our liineup, Dye, PK or Thome realizing there are no trade clauses involved. Edited November 1, 2008 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 QUOTE (Wanne @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 08:28 PM) You're assuming that somebody coming up with somebody on 1st or 2nd could actually get a basehit instead of swingin' for the fences. That's what we're missing. Because that's what the players in the lineup do in every plate appearance they get. Come on, get f***ing real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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