Brian Anderson and Brad Penny at club

[Steff]

Wait...I am in agreement with you Steff. That was the whole point I was making. I was also saying for those that think these guys should live the life of a monk, that we don't know if in fact, he is still working hard and also going out, which is completely fine and I think therapeutic after a long season.

 

 

My bad. I read it incorrectly.

[justBLAZE]

Video won't play for me?

 

I actually saw Anderson and McCarthy at Bourbon Street once, they were both pretty big.

[ThunderBolt]

-Tejada

 

-Both Giambi Brothers. Please don't tell me Jason started juicing when he got to NY

 

-Zito has lost almost 10 MPH off his stuff.

 

-Mulder is almost out of baseball after breaking down

 

-Hudson has also started to break down

 

-Chavez can't seem to stay healthy anymore

 

-Koch went out of his mind in Oakland, and just didn't look the same after he left..

 

-Milton Bradley has been linked to roids in the past as well

Swisher was drafted the year that Jason Giambi was released from the organization weeks into the season. Zito's deterioration in velocity hardly remarkable, and had been predicted for years. Koch was always a loose cannon fireballer Beane saw this and exploited it. Who knows about Mulder, but his mechanics were always less than ideal. To label Nick Swisher as a steroid user due to being in the presence of a few bad apples, and being in an organization that produced a bushel of them is simply unfair. What do we know? Swisher’s always been a big guy, he’s never had a remarkable injury of any sort, and has never been linked to usage in the past. Simply being around Milton Bradley is no sign of usage. Otherwise, we best test the entire Padres, Indians, and Dodgers organizations as well.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Thunderbolt

[santo=dorf]

I believe one poster here has credible knowledge of the Indians ballclub regarding steroids, and BeureaEmployee made reference to it before as well.

[Marky Mark]

Guys, gotta quit assuming there's only a small handful of players who have and do use.

 

From Bureau:

 

"Yes, a lot of guys use performance enhancing drugs - it occurs a lot in the minor leagues, and is more prevalent in latin-american players. The reason MOST players will NOT be found is because the MAJORITY of players who use are latin and they don't buy their stuff in the USA. They buy it back home - and there is little to no record of it in their country. Many players in all organizations use - the White Sox are no exception. Many times though, baseball tries to cover up these things just to 'protect' their name & teams will even pay MLB to keep things quiet. Its not the best system & won't be until A) there is a new commissioner and B ) and separate entity does the drug testing for MLB. Just as in anything else - there are many people who do not like players using inside baseball & there are some who don't care as long as the numbers are there and it makes them look like they're doing a good job."

 

 

"I can't make a "true or false" statement regarding teams paying off MLB, but when so many people tell the same 'type' of story, then there must be at least some truth to it. It is in the teams best interest to give up an amount of cash to keep positive tests down because [the] amount of money/credibility/problems caused by positive tests are not nearly worth simply paying MLB to keep things quiet.

 

As far as a percentage, steroids are down a lot, HGH is up a lot. The thing you have to remember, is that many times thru the year players come and go from MLB rosters. A true figure of combining both steroids and/or HGH in MLB would be about 35%, but about 70% of a "very good" players use them. In the minor leagues, its about 40% overall with 50-70% of the 'very good' players using.

 

The real problem is the HGH. Because even IF a test comes out, it won't be that effective. Because the ONLY way to know IF a player has taken HGH is to test him BEFORE he has ever taken it and then test him AFTER he has taken it.

 

For example:

 

Player A):

 

-Takes HGH

-Tested for HGH

-Takes HGH again

-Re-Tested for HGH - The player will show up clean because HGH tests can only detect the amount of HGH in the person's body. In this case, he may test to have some high levels but the player can just say "I must produce that naturally"

 

Player :

 

-Never takes HGH

-Tested for HGH

-Takes HGH

-Re-tested for HGH - This player will show up positive because his second test will show a great difference in his natural HGH count.

 

So, in essence, even IF a test is created - it won't be foolproof and the users will keep on using and using."

 

 

 

 

Speculating who uses what is pointless, because it was and is so prevelant. If Bureau's right and roughly 35% of MLB players use it, that makes up 8-9 guys on a 25 man roster. That's too much to be constantly pointing fingers.

[Wanne]

Maybe BA was on a recruiting assignment:

 

The Los Angeles Dodgers, needing money for other pursuits, have declined a $8.75 million option for 2009 on pitcher Brad Penny.

Penny will get a $2 million buyout from the Dodgers. The right-hander is now eligible for free agency.

Penny, 30, went 6-9 with a 6.27 ERA for L.A. in 2008, after going 16-4 with a 3.03 ERA in 2007.

 

I'd be on the phone with Penny in a heartbeat. Solve the problem finding a replacement for Javy if he's moved.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Wanne

[ILMOU]

The last Oakland A to be nailed for roids was Tejada, and Tejada left after 2004. Swish only played 20 games with the club that year. Unless, we're assuming that the drug use is organizational wide rather then an offshoot of the Canseco era then that's a pretty strong statement.

 

There were plenty of whispers about Swisher when his power dropped significantly from '06 to '07. The veracity of "whispers" is always suspect, but his '08 season MIGHT be a confirmation of this activity.

[ThunderBolt]

There were plenty of whispers about Swisher when his power dropped significantly from '06 to '07. The veracity of "whispers" is always suspect, but his '08 season MIGHT be a confirmation of this activity.

Here are Swisher's numbers though four years in the minors

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS SB% SH SF IBB HBP GDP

 

4 Seasons 320 1169 219 305 85 8 50 214 222 300 .261 .379 .476 .855 9 8 53% 0 0 0 1 0

 

The biggest power year he had was 29 hrs (after which he was called up ), prior to that he had a 6 and a 15 homer year which in the majors projects out to be about 15 and 25 respectively. IF anything his peak year in the majors, was simply a peak year. Every other year has seen him reverting to a certain norm that being, about 20 to 25 homeruns in about 560 at bats. There's nonthing shocking about his stats that can't be labeled as simple year-to-year improvement

Edited November 5, 2008 by Thunderbolt

[witesoxfan]

Here are Swisher's numbers though four years in the minors

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS SB% SH SF IBB HBP GDP

 

4 Seasons 320 1169 219 305 85 8 50 214 222 300 .261 .379 .476 .855 9 8 53% 0 0 0 1 0

 

The biggest power year he had was 29 hrs (after which he was called up ), prior to that he had a 6 and a 15 homer year which in the majors projects out to be about 15 and 25 respectively. IF anything his peak year in the majors, was simply a peak year. Every other year has seen him reverting to a certain norm that being, about 20 to 25 homeruns in about 560 at bats. There's nonthing shocking about his stats that can't be labeled as simple year-to-year improvement

 

He had 29 homers in 546 PAs; if that's averaged out to 675 PAs, it's roughly 36 homers, which is strikingly similar to his 2006 season.

 

I also don't think anyone's labeling anyone, but it's a shadow that still looms over baseball and it's sad, and it's entirely possible that Swisher is apart of that shadow. However, the entire situation is a witch hunt and I really don't want to think about it until I would actually have to.