2009 Inauguration

[Steff]

I disagreed with their OPINION and stated my OPINION of their OPINION. Do you get that now or are you going to keep up your crusade of trying to make me look like an ass for some reason? Hell, I think Rock and BS even get what I was trying to say.

 

 

I got what you were saying. I just found it to be delivered in an unnecessary manner.

 

[santo=dorf]

I'm not arguing anything.

 

The laws, rules and traditions of this country are based on Christian religious principles.

How many religions don't have principles of not steal from others or killing your fellow man?

 

Pretty simple.

 

It's the stuff like not coveting your neighbors goods (our economy is bad as it is,) and selling your children into slavery that AREN'T traditions in this country. Thank (fill in the blank) for that.

[Reddy]

I got what you were saying. I just found it to be delivered in an unnecessary manner.

and not that i want to get involved... but how do you have the authority to say in what manner something should be delivered...?

[knightni]

The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI), and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase "so help me God" or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause 8). If we are a Christian nation, why doesn't our Constitution say so?

 

In 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington's presidency, and approved by the Senate under John Adams.

 

LINK

Good for that.

You don't think that the U.S. wasn't just covering their ass with that statement when they made that treaty?

 

. . .

 

The U.S. Constitution may be written secularily, but it was and is governed by people of the Christian belief who chose institute Christian-based traditions into ceremony to show the 70%+ of the U.S.'s population (who were and are primarily familiar with Christian tradition) that their government believes in many of the things that they do.

 

The places and traditions that involve swearing on Bibles, prayer etc., were put into effect in another time when people's Christian beliefs more strongly affected everyday American life.

 

Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc., didn't start being vocal and prominent until the early-mid 20th century, after many of these Christian traditions were considered mainstream.

 

[bmags]

Deism also has a pretty strong influence in that era. Ben Franklin, for instance, liked the morality set by church, but didn't attend it for the majority of his life and tended to lean more towards deism than dogma.

[santo=dorf]

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?id=6177

 

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

-Thomas Jefferson

 

Yeah, that sounds like a really religious christian

 

 

 

[nitetrain8601]

I don't know about that. McCain, in a losing effort, still got a hell of a lot of votes. I just think that this was one of those elections where people felt like they had a choice for the first time in a long time. I may not agree with Obama, but I respect his position and he ran an excellent campaign.

 

I respect his campaign as well. In my opinion, he himself did not try to exploit the fact that he was black or anything. His angle was that he represents a changing of the guard. There's nothing but the utmost respect from me regarding his campaign.

 

Ha! Actually I experienced something of that nature when a lady wasnt allowed to ride the CTA bus because she had forgotten her card and she mumbled that this wouldnt be the case when Obama takes charge.

 

This is the type of person I was getting at. The type of person, who I've personally heard myself say, "Oh, we won't have property taxes anymore baby, Obama is going to take care of that for my people".

 

I'm not trying to attack anyone who voted for Obama. He was an excellent choice. Heck, I think Hilary as well would've been a great choice. What I am saying is, there is a ton of what seems to be fake interest in politics because of Obama, or people who think Obama is going to bag our groceries and take them to our car.

[knightni]

oh my god, yeah, we get it - but NOW the country is based (hopefully) on unity and people from all different faiths and backgrounds coming together and all that jazz.

I'm not against other religions, neither were the founding fathers.

 

I'm just saying that historically, the majority of Americans were and are familiar and comfortable with Christianity because they came from Christian backgrounds. That's why American has Christian traditions in its governmental events.

[Steff]

and not that i want to get involved... but how do you have the authority to say in what manner something should be delivered...?

 

I don't need any authority to have an opinion.

 

 

[Steff]

Good lord. That'w what you are giving me crap over? I didn't even mean it about that comment.

 

I meant it as there has to be a complaint on everything, I didn't mean it about that particular topic. OK, now I see what you were yelling at me for. By "it" I meant in general, not about "it" being religion.

 

 

 

Ohhh. Of course. Gotcha.

[knightni]

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?id=6177

 

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

-Thomas Jefferson

 

Yeah, that sounds like a really religious christian

You're seriously quoting something from Ayn Rand's site?

[santo=dorf]

I'm not against other religions, neither were the founding fathers.

 

I'm just saying that historically, the majority of Americans were and are familiar and comfortable with Christianity because they came from Christian backgrounds. That's why American has Christian traditions in its governmental events.

Again, why is not murdering or stealing from others an exclusive tradition to the Chrisitians? I bet the cavemen knew better than that. If they were truly Chrisitian why have so many other principles or traditions found in the bible not passed into law? Like staying away from women on the rag, stoning homosexuals and people not keeping the Sabbath holy?

[RockRaines]

And here comes the religious debates... Ugh

 

 

[santo=dorf]

You're seriously quoting something from Ayn Rand's site?

No, I'm quoting Thomas Jefferson.

You can find the quote here too, if you dare to read it:

http://www.statenews.com/index.php/article..._popular_belief

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%...mp;aq=f&oq=

 

958 results, including a Christian site that calls Jefferson an "Unebliever."

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/thomas_jefferson.htm

 

Are they full of s*** too?

[knightni]

Again, why is not murdering or stealing from others an exclusive tradition to the Chrisitians? I bet the cavemen knew better than that. If they were truly Chrisitian why have so many other principles or traditions found in the bible not passed into law? Like staying away from women on the rag, stoning homosexuals and people not keeping the Sabbath holy?

I never said that it was exclusive.

Franklin and Jefferson were not Christians, but their moral compasses probably came from the Euorpean-Christian philosophies that they were immersed in during their childhoods.

 

The point that I've been trying to make is that America was founded by European-Americans whose primary religion was Christianity.

Prayer at public events, swearing on a bible, and ten commandments in front of courthouses, were traditions created by people who were also European-Americans whose primary religion was Christianity.

 

 

That's all.

 

That is why there was prayer at the Inauguration.

 

[RockRaines]

I never said that it was exclusive.

Franklin and Jefferson were not Christians, but their moral compasses probably came from the Euorpean-Christian philosophies that they were immersed in during their childhoods.

 

The point that I've been trying to make is that America was founded by European-Americans whose primary religion was Christianity.

Prayer at public events, swearing on a bible, and ten commandments in front of courthouses, were traditions created by people who were also European-Americans whose primary religion was Christianity.

 

 

That's all.

 

That is why there was prayer at the Inauguration.

Yes, but they had alot of older traditions that are now passe as they should be. The country back then was much different than it is now. Our population consists of many different religions and races and I think our government should reflect that and keep religion where it belongs, in people's personal lives. It simply has no place in a federal ceremony.

 

 

[knightni]

I don't care if they remove prayer, etc. from the US Government.

 

I'm just saying that the U.S. is primarily a Christian society because it was founded by people who came from Christian societies in Europe, not Muslim societies in the Middle East, or Polytheistic societies in Asia.

[Princess Dye]

Wow they just talked to some Urbana troops at the inauguration on CNN, the Cubs fans outnumbered Sox about 6 to 1...Obama to his credit let them have it. Even despite their sacrifice Obama was all, "OK fine pass the mic, we'll get to a Sox fan here sure enough"

[bmags]

I guess I'll give them credit for sticking to their allegiance.

[kapkomet]

Personally, I loved the fact that the Illinois float had SouthPaw and the Sox logo, and not a damn thing about the Cubs.

[Soxy]

The settling and founding of America wasn't a secular event.

 

Puritans, Baptists, Episcopalians, and Church of England members helped found the country.

 

Inaugurations, Courtrooms, many Graduations, Weddings, Funerals, Memorial Services, all have prayer, bibles or God references.

 

America is a Christian-founded country.

A couple of things: Episcopalians are part of the Church of England.

 

The Christianity practiced by those who founded this country is virtually unrecognizable from modern Christianity. (Thank goodness.)

 

And Muslims, Hindus, and Jews didn't come to the forefront of American history until after the Christians stopped persecuting their asses (or set immigration quotas which, of course, they also did to their Christian, but non-protestant brethren).

 

Also, what are the major Ethical differences between the Big 5 (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism)?

 

I'll be honest, I was okay with the prayers (except the general crappiness of Warren's) except for the Lord's Prayer. That bothered me, I'm not sure why. But I didn't like it there. It seemed profane (in the true meaning of the word).

[bmags]

It seems the true criticism of the selection of Warren for the invocation was that he is terrible at it. Who knew. And my objection was to his stance on the gay community. How naive!

[kapkomet]

It seems the true criticism of the selection of Warren for the invocation was that he is terrible at it. Who knew. And my objection was to his stance on the gay community. How naive!

I have a hard time with this. While I may perscribe to the beliefs of Rick Warren, to some extent, I had trouble with his choosing before he pissed all over himself up there. But not because he's "persecuted" gays (which it ain't his place) - but because it was an obvious effort by Barack Obama to reach out to "evangelicals" (sp)... and the problem I have with general "evaneglicals" (sp) is that we as humans have no right to judge what is right and wrong.

 

Rick Warren has a lot of "judgemental" attitudes that he carries with him, and for that I didn't like the pick. Oh well, I've pounded the crap out of this subject enough for one day.

 

[Balta1701]

Personally, I loved the fact that the Illinois float had SouthPaw and the Sox logo, and not a damn thing about the Cubs.

If you can find a good picture showing that can you send me the link?

[LosMediasBlancas]

Wow they just talked to some Urbana troops at the inauguration on CNN, the Cubs fans outnumbered Sox about 6 to 1...Obama to his credit let them have it. Even despite their sacrifice Obama was all, "OK fine pass the mic, we'll get to a Sox fan here sure enough"

 

Him talking to those troops was the best moment of the day. When he started asking about team allegiance, I thought oh God please let ONE of them say they're a Sox fan.