The indoctrination starts already

[YASNY]

And I said I am ok with it.

 

Well, after reading your response and considering it, I can't totally disagree any further. Required community service can turn into a lifetime of volunteerism. If Obama's girls are required to serve in the same way Joe the plumber's kids are, then this could be a good thing. However, if Obama's girls get the cushy "community service" and Joe's kids have to enlist in the military then it's not.

[Steff]

ETA: Quite the opposite, I said that income should not be used as a determinant for requiring or not requiring this sort of thing.

 

 

And thank God for that. I don't care how "rich" I am my kid(s) will be applying for any and all assistance they qualify for just as I did.

[lostfan]

Would it really be an "option" for those who struggle to afford college? To me it would be optional in the same idea that loans were "optional". My other option was no college and a crappy job.

I had options coming out of high school. I chose the military so now I take substantial benefits. This is the same concept on a smaller scale methinks.

[Steff]

Well, after reading your response and considering it, I can't totally disagree any further. Required community service can turn into a lifetime of volunteerism. If Obama's girls are required to serve in the same way Joe the plumber's kids are, then this could be a good thing. However, if Obama's girls get the cushy "community service" and Joe's kids have to enlist in the military then it's not.

 

 

I like the however. This is a plan not even fertilized yet and you're calling out the short end of the stick - as if giving back has one but that's a matter of personal opinion.

 

We agree to disagree.

[lostfan]

If people are healthy and able to work, why not? They would then feel they were contributing members of society instead of just being catagorized as leeches.

I know this is not what you're saying, but there are people like my dad who work their asses off and are still poor, which is why the use of the word "handout" all the time bothers me. Now, my dad isn't poor and neither am I, but it took a LONG time to change that. My parents still couldn't afford to send me to college.

[YASNY]

I like the however. This is a plan not even fertilized yet and you're calling out the short end of the stick - as if giving back has one but that's a matter of personal opinion.

 

We agree to disagree.

 

If you don't look at the potential for elitism and unfairness being part of the equation, then you just have blinders on. GWB's "military service" was major liberal attack point, but he still served his country.

[Steve9347]

It's a nice idea, but when I was in college, I was working a lot just to support myself and afford books (and the binge drinking)... 100 hours of community service when you're already paying for the schooling seems like a joke.

[southsider2k5]

It's a nice idea, but when I was in college, I was working a lot just to support myself and afford books (and the binge drinking)... 100 hours of community service when you're already paying for the schooling seems like a joke.

 

100 hours of community service works out to less than two hours a week over a year. Then again you can think of it this way 100 hours/$4000 is $40 an hour, tax free, or probably more like $60 an hour in real wage costs. What other job are you going to get that kind of money?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Where do you want that break?

 

Since we're talking about middle school/high school/collegiate requirements (did you even read the article before posting?), its EXACTLY the same thing. Geometry, Algebra, Spanish and drivers ed were a waste of my time, and I wouldn't have bothered with any if not "forced" to take them. BFD.

 

What does being forced to stop at stop signs and refraining from criminal assault have to do with the subject of mandatory graduation requirements?

 

Double down on your "Damn".

 

 

The requirements set forth by the college to graduate are the right of that college as the private institution they are. They set the standards to which they want to graduate their students. The government stepping in and mandating that a college student perfrom 'x' amount of comm service hours per year is ridiculous.

 

Performing community service does nothing to demonstrate any sort of educational aptitude that graduating represents. Taking multiple types of courses allows a person to be able to know that Africa is not a country, how to do basic math, how to keep one's body in decent health etc...Mandating community service (which would no doubt have to be performed outside of school hours) just adds to stress and time contraints that many high school students have (espeically those involved in clubs, sports, jobs etc...). I dont think it is right at all.

 

And my last statement was a crack at your driver's ed statement. I see nothing wrong with forcing people to take a driving course before they can operate a machine that is very easily capable of killing/injuring one's self as well as others. No comparison. (And driver's ed isnt a graduation requirement either)

[Reddy]

i hate this. wtf Obama. see i'm already pissed at him. haha

 

what about those of us who are ALREADY so f***ing busy that we don't have TIME to log 100 hours of community service? as a theatre major i have class all day, work, then rehearsal till 11 at night, 6 days a week. i'm sorry, but REQUIRING community service is just plain dumb.

[lostfan]

It's a nice idea, but when I was in college, I was working a lot just to support myself and afford books (and the binge drinking)... 100 hours of community service when you're already paying for the schooling seems like a joke.

This 100 hours would be for helping to pay for the school, not as some kind of graduation requirement.

[lostfan]

i hate this. wtf Obama. see i'm already pissed at him. haha

 

what about those of us who are ALREADY so f***ing busy that we don't have TIME to log 100 hours of community service? as a theatre major i have class all day, work, then rehearsal till 11 at night, 6 days a week. i'm sorry, but REQUIRING community service is just plain dumb.

See my previous post. If you don't want the $4000 from the gov't then it isn't a requirement

[YASNY]

I know this is not what you're saying, but there are people like my dad who work their asses off and are still poor, which is why the use of the word "handout" all the time bothers me. Now, my dad isn't poor and neither am I, but it took a LONG time to change that. My parents still couldn't afford to send me to college.

 

hey lostfan, I'm all for the working man. Anybody that is willing to get out there and work to better things for him/herself and their family, they need every break they can get. I don't begrudge them anything. The elistists have used and abused the working class for far too long in this nation. I just have problems with those that are not willing to pull their weight and expect government to take care of them.

 

If you could afford to go to college after giving two years of service to our great nation, would have chosen to do so. I think you would have based on this post I'm quoting. But, if you decided to opt out you should have that right as long as your don't expect the taxpayers to support you because you didn't want to serve.

[lostfan]

The requirements set forth by the college to graduate are the right of that college as the private institution they are. They set the standards to which they want to graduate their students. The government stepping in and mandating that a college student perfrom 'x' amount of comm service hours per year is ridiculous.

But, nobody's doing that. This is a "give to receive" kind of thing that is altogether separate from the actual schooling.

[Steff]

If you don't look at the potential for elitism and unfairness being part of the equation, then you just have blinders on. GWB's "military service" was major liberal attack point, but he still served his country.

 

 

I call it looking at the glass half full rather than wearing blinders. Though I do realize that CS service for someone going to Yale (I know it's a stretch cause those "rich folks" probably wouldn't need this kind of thing) and someone going to IU would probably be different, but not because of elitism or unfairness but simply because of logistics and ability and probably many other factors which isn't unfairness.. it's life. IMO

[Reddy]

See my previous post. If you don't want the $4000 from the gov't then it isn't a requirement

that page on change.gov doesn't make that clear.

 

but also, in complete honesty, i think john edwards' plan was ten times better. this community service thing does NOTHING (relatively) for the country. in edwards' you had to work like 10 hours a week to get the cash from the gov't. this way at least you're feeding and helping the American economy.

[Rex Kickass]

that page on change.gov doesn't make that clear.

 

but also, in complete honesty, i think john edwards' plan was ten times better. this community service thing does NOTHING (relatively) for the country. in edwards' you had to work like 10 hours a week to get the cash from the gov't. this way at least you're feeding and helping the American economy.

 

I think its a reasonable plan, but I also think that the amount of work required should be increased to 200 hours for college students per year.

[lostfan]

hey lostfan, I'm all for the working man. Anybody that is willing to get out there and work to better things for him/herself and their family, they need every break they can get. I don't begrudge them anything. The elistists have used and abused the working class for far too long in this nation. I just have problems with those that are not willing to pull their weight and expect government to take care of them.

 

If you could afford to go to college after giving two years of service to our great nation, would have chosen to do so. I think you would have based on this post I'm quoting. But, if you decided to opt out you should have that right as long as your don't expect the taxpayers to support you because you didn't want to serve.

We definitely agree 100% on the content of your post, I was just using your post as a springboard to make another point. I find that talking points water down any support to the poor/lower classes as a handout and classify it all as welfare for people who can't pull their own weight. Of course, that's not what you said here or in the other post, but it's said by other people quite often. I believe the means should be provided for the poor to get a break and move up, if they can, and if they want to put in the work. I'm as against "free rides" as anyone else, though.

[Reddy]

I think its a reasonable plan, but I also think that the amount of work required should be increased to 200 hours for college students per year.

you mean the community service hours?

[Rex Kickass]

you mean the community service hours?

Yes. 200 hours is 5 work weeks. And the compensation would equal roughly $20/hour.

[YASNY]

I call it looking at the glass half full rather than wearing blinders. Though I do realize that CS service for someone going to Yale (I know it's a stretch cause those "rich folks" probably wouldn't need this kind of thing) and someone going to IU would probably be different, but not because of elitism or unfairness but simply because of logistics and ability and probably many other factors which isn't unfairness.. it's life. IMO

 

If the rich folks don't need this type of thing and are able to opt out of it, then they are given a choice. If the poor folks decide that they want to opt out of it, and not accept the assitance in return, then they should be given that choice as well. If you are going to require the needy to perform comm service, then you should require the rich to also. But then, you'd have the bleeding hearts saying that the rich shouldn't get assistance because they don't need it. But, is their service any less valuable than their not so fortunate counterparts?

[Reddy]

Yes. 200 hours is 5 work weeks. And the compensation would equal roughly $20/hour.

k... right... but as a college student even 50 hours/semester would be a huge pain in the ass - much less 100.

 

right now, i take what's called theatre practicum - backstage, crew stuff - and we have to do 50 hours worth over the semester. it's pretty time consuming. and to have to add ANOTHER fifty on top of that would be insane.

[knightni]

We had mandatory community service days when I was in college.

 

I survived.

 

 

[clyons]

The requirements set forth by the college to graduate are the right of that college as the private institution they are. They set the standards to which they want to graduate their students. The government stepping in and mandating that a college student perfrom 'x' amount of comm service hours per year is ridiculous.

 

Performing community service does nothing to demonstrate any sort of educational aptitude that graduating represents. Taking multiple types of courses allows a person to be able to know that Africa is not a country, how to do basic math, how to keep one's body in decent health etc...Mandating community service (which would no doubt have to be performed outside of school hours) just adds to stress and time contraints that many high school students have (espeically those involved in clubs, sports, jobs etc...). I dont think it is right at all.

 

And my last statement was a crack at your driver's ed statement. I see nothing wrong with forcing people to take a driving course before they can operate a machine that is very easily capable of killing/injuring one's self as well as others. No comparison. (And driver's ed isnt a graduation requirement either)

 

Gotcha. Drivers ed was probably a reach.

 

But what about the government already mandating that every Illinois student pass a Constitution test? One can argue that this requirement is imposed for social reasons as well as educational ones, as it helps ensure basic fundamentals of "good citizenship." I see this community service thing kind of the same way, and kids might actually help contribute something positive while learning things in a real world setting they might not otherwise experience; not unlike an internship.

 

Nobody I know has a big problem with the government mandating a Constitution requirement. Is that just because its easier satisfied than service?

[Reddy]

We had mandatory community service days when I was in college.

 

I survived.

i mean right, i guess if it was community service or not go to college i'd take it. and that's what they're trying to do so... fine. but even upper middle class families like mine would WANT me to do it to get the 4k, and all i'm saying is that on top of the schedule i currently lead that'd be ridiculous. since i work - i like that proposal a lot better. and so would everyone else. they do something for the country, get money from the gov't AND from their employer. Everyone's happy.