Mets & White Sox Have Been Talking...

[ChWRoCk2]

Dude weak...

Dude, more than two words explaining would help

 

 

I said just a thought, I highly doubt we trade Jenks anyways.

[TCQ]

Dude, more than two words explaining would help

 

 

I said just a thought, I highly doubt we trade Jenks anyways.

 

 

I wansnt knocking your post, i actually think it might be a good idea which is why i suggested it a few posts before yours no hard feelings it was meant as a joke.

[fathom]

There is a really solid chance Cordero isn't ready for Opening Day. Not a bad gamble, but not someone you want to count on.

 

If Jenks really was traded, I'd give SFX a call about Wood.

 

If Jenks was traded to the Mets, you'd probably see the Sox get Feliciano back in the trade and move Thornton to the closer role with Linebrink and Dotel as the set-up men.

[TCQ]

If Jenks was traded to the Mets, you'd probably see the Sox get Feliciano back in the trade and move Thornton to the closer role with Linebrink and Dotel as the set-up men.

Hey you think we could pry royce ring back from them???????

[Kalapse]

Bobby's going to make around $3.5M in 2009, maybe double that in 2010 and 8 figures in 2011 as a 30 year old. This is assuming of course that he stays healthy and productive. The "young and cheap" argument can only work for so long. This is about trading a guy a year too early rather than a year too late, if Bobby suffers a serious injury or falls flat on his face some time in the next 2 years his trade value will plummet to zero but he'll still cost a pretty penny to retain in arbitration.

[ThunderBolt]

Hey you think we could pry royce ring back from them???????

I'm assuming this is sarcasm that being said i belive Ring is a Brave now.

[fathom]

Is Wood A or B?

 

I think A....I don't think he'd ever play for the White Sox.

Edited November 8, 2008 by fathom

[Kalapse]

I'm assuming this is sarcasm that being said i belive Ring is a Brave now.

Ring completely bombed with the Braves. They ended up designating him for assignment in August, I believe he's currently without a job.

[Kalapse]

I think A....I don't think he'd ever play for the White Sox.

He's an A.

[TCQ]

I'm assuming this is sarcasm that being said i belive Ring is a Brave now.

 

i couldnt find the green font...

[Soxbadger]

Whenever I hear mets I have dreams of Reyes.'

 

We all have our dream.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think A....I don't think he'd ever play for the White Sox.

Correct Woods is an A.

[Dick Allen]

If the Sox were to trade Jenks, I doubt Thornton would be the closer. If they didn't acquire anyone, I think it would be Dotel. Don't laugh. For the majority of his outings in 2008 he was unhittable. For several he was meat. He hadn't pitched that much in several years. I think he'll be more consistent in 2009. With Poreda on the horizon and Contreras when and if he comes back moving to the bullpen, I think if KW can get a huge return, he would deal Jenks. There are too many things pointing against KW wanting to risk huge money on Jenks, who is suddenly going to start making money. Screw in the elbow, declining K rate, expanding waistline. While he still gets things done at a great clip, he seems to make it more interesting now. To get 3.5 years like he pitched out of a waiver claim and then turn that into a nice package before you really had to pay him anything isn't all bad. KW has done a good job getting rid of pitchers. The only one to really bite him in the ass was Foulke. Hawk always talks about how Ozzie might have had another WS title if Maggs and Frank stayed healthy in 2003. Ozzie may never have been the White Sox manager had Manuel had Foulke closing games instead of Koch for most of 2003

[caulfield12]

If the Sox were to trade Jenks, I doubt Thornton would be the closer. If they didn't acquire anyone, I think it would be Dotel. Don't laugh. For the majority of his outings in 2008 he was unhittable. For several he was meat. He hadn't pitched that much in several years. I think he'll be more consistent in 2009. With Poreda on the horizon and Contreras when and if he comes back moving to the bullpen, I think if KW can get a huge return, he would deal Jenks. There are too many things pointing against KW wanting to risk huge money on Jenks, who is suddenly going to start making money. Screw in the elbow, declining K rate, expanding waistline. While he still gets things done at a great clip, he seems to make it more interesting now. To get 3.5 years like he pitched out of a waiver claim and then turn that into a nice package before you really had to pay him anything isn't all bad. KW has done a good job getting rid of pitchers. The only one to really bite him in the ass was Foulke. Hawk always talks about how Ozzie might have had another WS title if Maggs and Frank stayed healthy in 2003. Ozzie may never have been the White Sox manager had Manuel had Foulke closing games instead of Koch for most of 2003

 

 

Are you sure you're not confusing years? Weren't Thomas and Ordonez out for most of 2004 and not 2003?

 

I'm not sure...at one point around mid-season, after we'd chased down KC, we looked really good for about 2-3 weeks, but it's not like we were much over 10-15 games above .500.

 

Maybe we had the most "talented" team in the majors then, but not the best overall. Cotts was getting some starts. Loiaza really wore down in the second half...and Colon was never really 100% motivated to pitch for us except when he felt like it. But yes, Koch was a huge issue, too.

 

I don't think you can assume Contreras will come back into the bullpen...maybe. It seems with the way he prepares and needs time to get warmed up (like El Duque), it wouldn't be the best idea. Yeah, theoretically, his stuff would be even better over an inning or two. He could really let go of that fastball, and throwing everyday could actually have the affect of getting him not to overthrow the forkball. Then again, that forkball would lead to a lot of WP's in late-inning situations. As we know, he would be absolutely atrocious holding on runners. Then again, hard to be be worse than Gavin and Jenks in this area. Maybe it's something he could improve upon...but he's always had a pretty slow overall delivery to the plate, and that won't change, unless he fundamentally changes something with his delivery to compensate for the achilles', in which case he'll probably end up with an arm or shoulder problem and be done.

 

Somebody mentioned Teixeira...haven't seen him pitch. I know Link did well but really isn't under any serious consideration internally.

 

I think you have to look at Thornton, Dotel and Adam Russell. That's where I would begin the search at least.

 

 

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'd bet that a popular Sox player gets traded maybe 2 or 3. Is anyone really untouchable if the right deal was offered ?

[Balta1701]

I'd bet that a popular Sox player gets traded maybe 2 or 3. Is anyone really untouchable if the right deal was offered ?

I'd say Mark Buehrle. Jim Thome. IIRC, both have pretty complete NTC's.

[caulfield12]

I'd say Mark Buehrle. Jim Thome. IIRC, both have pretty complete NTC's.

 

I see Jenks going before Buehrle. I don't think KW is 100% confident he can bank on repeats from Danks and Floyd in 2009. Maybe. He is more likely to get predictability out of Buerhle and Vazquez IMO. Look at Cliff Lee. I'm not saying Danks will repeat his career path, but it's an interesting comparison. Of course, there was the "downswing" that came before he emerged last year as the best AL lefty, at least for one season.

 

Floyd, while he was our stopper in the second half...it seems his ERA kept creeping up and up and up over the year, and part of that's natural, he pitched so many great games the first couple of months out of the blocks. You had the feeling he would end up around 4.50 if the season continued another month though.

 

If you do trade Mark, do think KW is ready to look at Danks as a 1 and Floyd as a 2? I think the only reason would be if you traded Jenks/Buehrle and either Konerko or Dye and invested that money in someone like Sabathia as the #1, and I would be seriously shocked if that happened. Other than CC, there's no true "ace" pitcher out there that justifies spending north of $15 million per season. And no, while AJ Burnett has "ace" stuff, I don't for a second put him in the Halladay/Sabathia/Santana class.

 

[Dick Allen]

Are you sure you're not confusing years? Weren't Thomas and Ordonez out for most of 2004 and not 2003?

 

I'm not sure...at one point around mid-season, after we'd chased down KC, we looked really good for about 2-3 weeks, but it's not like we were much over 10-15 games above .500.

 

Maybe we had the most "talented" team in the majors then, but not the best overall. Cotts was getting some starts. Loiaza really wore down in the second half...and Colon was never really 100% motivated to pitch for us except when he felt like it. But yes, Koch was a huge issue, too.

 

I don't think you can assume Contreras will come back into the bullpen...maybe. It seems with the way he prepares and needs time to get warmed up (like El Duque), it wouldn't be the best idea. Yeah, theoretically, his stuff would be even better over an inning or two. He could really let go of that fastball, and throwing everyday could actually have the affect of getting him not to overthrow the forkball. Then again, that forkball would lead to a lot of WP's in late-inning situations. As we know, he would be absolutely atrocious holding on runners. Then again, hard to be be worse than Gavin and Jenks in this area. Maybe it's something he could improve upon...but he's always had a pretty slow overall delivery to the plate, and that won't change, unless he fundamentally changes something with his delivery to compensate for the achilles', in which case he'll probably end up with an arm or shoulder problem and be done.

 

Somebody mentioned Teixeira...haven't seen him pitch. I know Link did well but really isn't under any serious consideration internally.

 

I think you have to look at Thornton, Dotel and Adam Russell. That's where I would begin the search at least.

 

Yes I meant Ozzie's first season, 2004 was when Frank and Maggs went down. In 2003, Loaisa was awesome. Colon was solid, Buerhle started out horribly and rebounded. Garland was what he normally was Koch blew. The White Sox were in first place September 14 when they took the rubber game at Fenway when CLee got stuck on the Green Monster. With Koch being as bad as he was, he was replaced by Flash Gordon, Foulke was outstanding with the A's. The White Sox may have won that division. They had a solid team, but fell apart late. Their bullpen could have been Sullivan, Gordon, Foulke and an unbelievably good Marte. If they won, Ozzie may still be coaching 3rd somewhere.

 

As far as Contreras, the White Sox did say when and if he returns he most likely will be used out of the bullpen.

 

[Dick Allen]

I see Jenks going before Buehrle. I don't think KW is 100% confident he can bank on repeats from Danks and Floyd in 2009. Maybe. He is more likely to get predictability out of Buerhle and Vazquez IMO. Look at Cliff Lee. I'm not saying Danks will repeat his career path, but it's an interesting comparison. Of course, there was the "downswing" that came before he emerged last year as the best AL lefty, at least for one season.

 

Floyd, while he was our stopper in the second half...it seems his ERA kept creeping up and up and up over the year, and part of that's natural, he pitched so many great games the first couple of months out of the blocks. You had the feeling he would end up around 4.50 if the season continued another month though.

 

If you do trade Mark, do think KW is ready to look at Danks as a 1 and Floyd as a 2? I think the only reason would be if you traded Jenks/Buehrle and either Konerko or Dye and invested that money in someone like Sabathia as the #1, and I would be seriously shocked if that happened. Other than CC, there's no true "ace" pitcher out there that justifies spending north of $15 million per season. And no, while AJ Burnett has "ace" stuff, I don't for a second put him in the Halladay/Sabathia/Santana class.

 

I've seen one argument that what the White Sox do need is a legitimate ace. Who knows. I do agree that it wouldn't be a shocker if Danks and Floyd not only do not repeat their successes in 2008, they may even take a step or two back. People I'm sure will be shocked when I say, especially Floyd.

 

[joeynach]

Beltran makes 18.5 Mil in 09, 10, and 11 then becomes a free agent. He also has a full no trade clause. Plus I dont even want Beltran all the much. Hes a good run producer but why should we take on 55.5 Mil for 3 years for a guy that hits about .275-.280 with 30 Hrs. Thats basically Dye's career averages. If we trade Jenks and Vazquez I want Reyes at least.

[caulfield12]

Yes I meant Ozzie's first season, 2004 was when Frank and Maggs went down. In 2003, Loaisa was awesome. Colon was solid, Buerhle started out horribly and rebounded. Garland was what he normally was Koch blew. The White Sox were in first place September 14 when they took the rubber game at Fenway when CLee got stuck on the Green Monster. With Koch being as bad as he was, he was replaced by Flash Gordon, Foulke was outstanding with the A's. The White Sox may have won that division. They had a solid team, but fell apart late. Their bullpen could have been Sullivan, Gordon, Foulke and an unbelievably good Marte. If they won, Ozzie may still be coaching 3rd somewhere.

 

As far as Contreras, the White Sox did say when and if he returns he most likely will be used out of the bullpen.

 

 

Too many memories of that time...

 

1) Buehrle begging to start at Yankee Stadium (when we were in a position to sweep) and Cotts wetting the bed and letting the Yanks off the hook

2) Foulke's decision to "voluntarily demote" himself from the closer role and KW's determination to get a fireballer

3) The lack of depth brought about by the Ritchie deal and a plethora of injuries and non-performance from our "waves of pitching" (Rauch, Wright, Barcelo, Parque, etc.)

4) The fact that Minnesota was smart enough to sign Kenny Rogers to a very cheap deal...and I'm convinced that the 5th starter's spot was one of the key differences that year. KW didn't rectify that until 2005 with the emergence of McCarthy and the acquisition of El Duque to go with Jose, Freddy, Mark and Garland.

5) Maybe it wasn't this season, but Koch serving up a game loser to Carl Crawford at the Trop into the RF seats around the 4th of July.

 

I still don't think that Manuel could have led us to the World Series with the way that players like Magglio and Carlos Lee were not responding to his leadership, and the growing problems that were also evidenced in the clubhouse behaviors of Jimenez, Royce Clayton and Kenny Lofton.

[caulfield12]

Beltran makes 18.5 Mil in 09, 10, and 11 then becomes a free agent. He also has a full no trade clause. Plus I dont even want Beltran all the much. Hes a good run producer but why should we take on 55.5 Mil for 3 years for a guy that hits about .275-.280 with 30 Hrs. Thats basically Dye's career averages. If we trade Jenks and Vazquez I want Reyes at least.

 

Unfortunately, the price would be Jenks/Danks or Jenks/Floyd, although I don't think KW would pull the trigger on a Danks move. For Floyd, probably. Just my sense. Maybe because at mid-season this year, there were a lot of rumors that Floyd was being included in multiple packages...that KW was trying to "sell high" and take advantage of Floyd's hot start as quickly as possible before he cooled off.

 

Still, it's a very, very illogical thing to trade a young/affordable pitcher with Floyd's stuff and seeing how much he's already improved under the tutelage of Cooper and Guillen.

 

Trading Javier, once again we would have to roll the dice on two spots in the rotation and hope that Danks/Floyd repeat. I don't like the odds of that, no matter how well Reyes plays...it almost always comes down to pitching. But year, with Hanley Ramirez and Sizemore, he's one of the most exciting players in the game today and it would be great to see a better version of "I love to watch Ray run." Heck, Harrelson would almost forget about Carlos Gomez, except when we played the Twins.

Edited November 8, 2008 by caulfield12

[Sox It To Em]

Beltran makes 18.5 Mil in 09, 10, and 11 then becomes a free agent. He also has a full no trade clause. Plus I dont even want Beltran all the much. Hes a good run producer but why should we take on 55.5 Mil for 3 years for a guy that hits about .275-.280 with 30 Hrs. Thats basically Dye's career averages. If we trade Jenks and Vazquez I want Reyes at least.

 

The difference is Beltran walks ninety times a year, plays a prime position, is great defensively, and can swipe 20+ bags at a great success rate. Dye doesn't do any of those things. Jenks+Vazquez for Beltran would be a steal, IMO. Carlos Beltran is one of the best players in baseball. I'd be shocked if these rumors have any substance, though. I'm sure Omaya would want Danks/Floyd for Beltran.

Edited November 8, 2008 by Sox It To Em

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'd say Mark Buehrle. Jim Thome. IIRC, both have pretty complete NTC's.

I knew I should have specified it by saying anyone without a full NTC. However even full NTC's can be waived by the player if the conditions are favorable .

[CWSOX45]

Guys Beltran isn't going anywhere. Hate to break it to all of you.

 

The Mets aren't trading their best outfielder unless they're getting one in return. Right now their outfield is Beltran, Church (who's been plagued with concussions all last season.), and either Danny Murphy who isn't fleet of foot, or Nick Evans who is a career utility player.

 

I hate to break it to all of you, but if we trade with the Mets I can see Aaron Heilman coming this way. He resides in Chicago and needs a change of scenery. The Mets are sick of him, the fans are sick of him, and I'm pretty sure he's sick of New York.

 

If they're asking for Jenks, the Sox better ask for Wilmer Flores. He'll only be 18 years old...but trust me, he's the next Miguel Cabrera. The only question is whether or not he'd be available to the Sox, I know he was signed last year, and I don't know if there are any regulations regarding how long a player must be signed before being traded in the minors.