daa84 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:19 PM) That career .803 OPS on the road for Holliday is hilarious. .818, .859, .891 on the road inthe last three, years....trending upwards....he's also refined his on base skills and should be in the prime of his career...add into the fact that they should get draft picks, and have replacements in gio and potentially anderson or cahill by the end of the year for smith and street...this is a nice deal for the A's.....colorado did pretty well in return, though i have my doubts about each of those guys they got Edited November 10, 2008 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Horrible, horrible, horrible trade for the A's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:47 PM) Horrible, horrible, horrible trade for the A's. So, the A’s just traded a solid #3 starter, a guy with the potential to be the next Carlos Beltran, and an above-average Reliever for one-year of a good hitter playing in an excellent hitters park. I love Billy Beane, but this I don’t get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:56 PM) So, the A’s just traded a solid #3 starter, a guy with the potential to be the next Carlos Beltran, and an above-average Reliever for one-year of a good hitter playing in an excellent hitters park. I love Billy Beane, but this I don’t get. Street sucks. Gonzalez may be a good one. I don't know how Smith is a solid #3 yet. Its funny how on this board Carlos Gomez will never be any good and Gonzalez who had worse numbers is going to be a star. They either sign Holliday or flip him at the deadline if they aren't contending. It could be a disaster for Oakland, but for 2009, they received the best player in the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:01 PM) Street sucks. Gonzalez may be a good one. I don't know how Smith is a solid #3 yet. Its funny how on this board Carlos Gomez will never be any good and Gonzalez who had worse numbers is going to be a star. They either sign Holliday or flip him at the deadline if they aren't contending. It could be a disaster for Oakland, but for 2009, they received the best player in the deal. Oh, Beane is flipping Holliday to a contender, you better bet that, or he's living off the draft picks. Its a pretty good move by him IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (rangercal @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:33 PM) good point. I'd be worried about trading the farm for any rockies slugger. How about buying low on Jimenez or Francis instead? Francis would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:01 PM) Street sucks. Gonzalez may be a good one. I don't know how Smith is a solid #3 yet. Its funny how on this board Carlos Gomez will never be any good and Gonzalez who had worse numbers is going to be a star. They either sign Holliday or flip him at the deadline if they aren't contending. It could be a disaster for Oakland, but for 2009, they received the best player in the deal.He basically is Carlos Gomez -- talent, but a long long way to go to realize it. I don't see Holliday putting up an OPS much over .800 in a better league, with better pitching, while playing in the least hitter-friendly parks outside of Chavez Ravine and Petco. Unless Beane plans on spinning him off for something else, or really knows what he wants to do with those comp. picks, I think this trade is a solid win for Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 That is a nice return for the Rockies. I definitely would be down on picking up Jimenez or Francis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I think Gonzalez going to the Rockies will hasten Tavares' departure. I really hope we don't trade for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (chunk23 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:44 PM) I think Gonzalez going to the Rockies will hasten Tavares' departure. I really hope we don't trade for him. Im okay with Tavares hitting 9th and stealing 70 for us next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (almagest @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 05:42 PM) He basically is Carlos Gomez -- talent, but a long long way to go to realize it. No, Gomez's upside doesn't even come close to what Gonzalez's. Gonzalez is a legit five-tool guy. He was the centerpiece of that Haren deal. Gomez's will probably top out and about 15 hr's per year, Cargo has abour 35 in him. Gomez is a plus-defender with great speed, Gonzalez combines these elements with a bat that allowed the D-Backs to be comfortable with trading Quentin. Edited November 10, 2008 by Thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Street is probably going to be flipped quickly. http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11618874 Both Street and Tavares are players KW has gone after in the past. I'm not liking the chances of the Sox going after them. Sure Tavares can steal bases but his OBP is way too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 If Gonzalez really is that good, then the real losers in this are the Arizona DBacks. I mean, I'm a huge Dan Haren fan, but giving up Gonzalez(potential superstar) and Quentin(potential superstar), they are dumb. Quentin as we have seen is a stud. Gonzalez from all accounts is a stud. And by stud, I mean, MVP contender types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:56 PM) No, Gomez's upside doesn't even come close to what Gonzalez's. Gonzalez is a legit five-tool guy. He was the centerpiece of that Haren deal. Gomez's will probably top out and about 15 hr's per year, Cargo has abour 35 in him. Gomez is a plus-defender with great speed, Gonzalez combines these elements with a bat that allowed the D-Backs to be comfortable with trading Quentin.Like I said, they both have talent, and are very young, but have a long way to go to live up to projections. Does Gonzalez have a far higher upside? Yes. Does that mean he'll be better? No. I'm also curious why a guy with Gonzalez's talent would be traded twice in 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:14 PM) If Gonzalez really is that good, then the real losers in this are the Arizona DBacks. I mean, I'm a huge Dan Haren fan, but giving up Gonzalez(potential superstar) and Quentin(potential superstar), they are dumb. Quentin as we have seen is a stud. Gonzalez from all accounts is a stud. And by stud, I mean, MVP contender types. And Chris Carter. And Aaron Cunningham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 06:14 PM) If Gonzalez really is that good, then the real losers in this are the Arizona DBacks. I mean, I'm a huge Dan Haren fan, but giving up Gonzalez(potential superstar) and Quentin(potential superstar), they are dumb. Quentin as we have seen is a stud. Gonzalez from all accounts is a stud. And by stud, I mean, MVP contender types. oakland got an absolute haul in that deal.....Eveland and Smith were basically solid rotation guys with low 4 ERAs....they also got Gonzalez, Aaron Cunningham (who had a really great year and has established himself as maybe as good of a prospect as gonzalez) Chris Carter (who is one of the best power prospects in baseball...39 bombs last year) and even best of all Brett Anderson who is probably a top 20 pitching prospect in baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) The Denver Post seems to be confirming Street/Gonzales/Smith. I find it very interesting to read the Rockies fans comments about the trade. I'm guessing most don't follow the AL too closely because there's alot of people who hate the deal. Edited November 10, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:56 PM) So, the A’s just traded a solid #3 starter, a guy with the potential to be the next Carlos Beltran, and an above-average Reliever for one-year of a good hitter playing in an excellent hitters park. I love Billy Beane, but this I don’t get. I'm with you...I really don't get this from the A's perspective. Seems to go against Beane's MO. Not saying what he's giving up are sure things...but basically for one year and getting a couple of picks back. Unless he is planning on flipping him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I just spent some time on an A's board looking for their fans' perspective. Interesting... Most felt it was a fair deal... and they're pleased with A's management stepping up and adding an all-star caliber offensive player. The only player who triggered any potential regret was Gonzales... but the consensus seems to be that the team is pretty deep in outfield prospects and so he was expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 05:59 PM) I just spent some time on an A's board looking for their fans' perspective. Interesting... Most felt it was a fair deal... and they're pleased with A's management stepping up and adding an all-star caliber offensive player. The only player who triggered any potential regret was Gonzales... but the consensus seems to be that the team is pretty deep in outfield prospects and so he was expendable. I can understand them being pleased with it now...but what about when he walks next year? I'm still having trouble seeing the overall plan by Beane here...unless he plans on ponying up the dough to keep him (which I highly doubt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 i think some of you guys are simply writing off holliday as a coors phenomenon....certainly his numbers are helped by coors...but this guy had nearly a .900 OPS away from coors last year, and an obp well over .400 on the year, and is only 28 years old...add in to that he had nearly 30 SBs which would have easily been the high on the white sox.... besides if we are gonna knock holliday for his home stats as being largely due to playing 81 games at coors...dont forget that he played roughly 50 games in pitchers paradises of Petco, dodger stadium and AT&T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 07:07 PM) i think some of you guys are simply writing off holliday as a coors phenomenon....certainly his numbers are helped by coors...but this guy had nearly a .900 OPS away from coors last year, and an obp well over .400 on the year, and is only 28 years old...add in to that he had nearly 30 SBs which would have easily been the high on the white sox.... besides if we are gonna knock holliday for his home stats as being largely due to playing 81 games at coors...dont forget that he played roughly 50 games in pitchers paradises of Petco, dodger stadium and AT&T I crunched the numbers a few months ago, I'm sure a search on Google could turn them up, according to my research Matt Holliday hit nearly as poorly in the ballparks outside of the NL West as he did in the pitcher's parks of his home division. Things may have changed over the past few months but earlier this season you couldn't use that excuse legitimately. Matt Holliday is a good hitter (I have him down for a high .800 OPS in a pitcher's park next season) and possibly a better all-around ballpayer than he's given credit for but I don't believe he's one of the best hitters of his generation despite what his overall numbers might say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 06:40 PM) I crunched the numbers a few months ago, I'm sure a search on Google could turn them up, according to my research Matt Holliday hit nearly as poorly in the ballparks outside of the NL West as he did in the pitcher's parks of his home division. Things may have changed over the past few months but earlier this season you couldn't use that excuse legitimately. Matt Holliday is a good hitter (I have him down for a high .800 OPS in a pitcher's park next season) and possibly a better all-around ballpayer than he's given credit for but I don't believe he's one of the best hitters of his generation despite what his overall numbers might say. Good hitter...yes. But I think his defense makes Swish look like a Gold Glover IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 06:38 PM) oakland got an absolute haul in that deal.....Eveland and Smith were basically solid rotation guys with low 4 ERAs....they also got Gonzalez, Aaron Cunningham (who had a really great year and has established himself as maybe as good of a prospect as gonzalez) Chris Carter (who is one of the best power prospects in baseball...39 bombs last year) and even best of all Brett Anderson who is probably a top 20 pitching prospect in baseball Aaron Cunningham, who profiled as something of a cross between Aaron Rowand and Reed in terms of talent and tools? I think he'll be a major leaguer, but I don't know that he's going to have a significantly higher impact than, say, Ryan Sweeney. If he starts hitting 25-35 homers per season, but most don't see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:49 PM) Aaron Cunningham, who profiled as something of a cross between Aaron Rowand and Reed in terms of talent and tools? I think he'll be a major leaguer, but I don't know that he's going to have a significantly higher impact than, say, Ryan Sweeney. If he starts hitting 25-35 homers per season, but most don't see that happening. Altogether last year, between AA, AAA, and the big leagues, Cunningham hit 18 home runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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