There's spreading your message, and then there's just being of

[sox4lifeinPA]

Gay people do not consider being gay a choice, so why would anyone ask them that question?

 

 

I'm in the camp (a figurative camp, mind you) that people arrive at their gayness by many different routes, and since there is no definitive answer, I don't think you should assume one way or another.

 

Certainly I don't think a person wakes up and says, man, I'd like to get with Larry. I do believe that saying it is completely genetic, is incorrect. A significant portion of the lesbian community have been documented to be sexual assaulted at some point in their live, unless you're willing to tell me that that abuse triggered some genetic response, I'm sticking with that people are shaped intrinsically and externally by all sorts of stimuli to make them into what they are today.

 

and the transformative things I've experienced in my life are clear signs to me that God exists, so why would you ask me a question like "why believe in god?" I don't consider believing in God to be a choice, as much as willing to accept how you relate to him...that's the only choice.

 

Lastly, I don't understand how secular humanism jives with Darwinian evolution. Your genes make you weaker, and nature is selecting your gene pool for elimination. Why would I help you? With nothing grander to have faith in, what's the point?

[sox4lifeinPA]

Ah yes...I see we can have God and Jesus shoved down our throats every block of every town in the nation but 1 ad campaign asking why people believe in an invisible man in the clouds is just taking it way too far.

 

wrong, I'm questioning the motives of this group. I have no problem with the act of doing good things, I just have a problem with being abrasive in order to grab headlines... just like I have a serious problem with the God Hates f**s people. Same thing.

 

I reiterate my point: without the "why believe in god?" part, this is a non-issue and no one cares. It was intentionally done to cause a problem and attract attention to their organization and NOT their message.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I see nothing wrong with their message. It's a little abrasive, but I've been told plenty of times by religious people that you cannot possibly be a moral or good person without religion.

 

"Be good for the sake of being good" isn't anywhere near equivalent to "chicks are hot."

 

Then again, being good for "goodness sake" isn't mutually exclusive of religious belief.

 

 

Anyone can be an idiot, religious people often have a higher propensity for it sometimes. I think anyone can be a moral or good person, but perfection is out of our reach..but that's another conversation.

 

I wasn't equating "being good" with "chicks are hot", I was simply saying that the message of "being good" and "chicks are hot" are commonplace in our society from "The more you know..." to "hooters ads" those kinds of messages are normal. My problem is that for the sake of getting their name out there, this group chose to be provocative and (I won't use the word "offensive" anymore...) distasteful.

 

and I wouldn't necessarily agree that "goodness sake" is a Christian principle anyway. but, whatevs.

[Texsox]

The billboard could have been Don't Believe in God? Be Good For Goodness Sake and promoted "goodness".

Obviously they are making an anti-God statement. As long as groups are able to make a pro-God statement, life is good, just, and fair.

 

I do not remember making a choice to be straight but I do remember making a decision to not experiment with a gay lifestyle. Is the reverse also true? I don't know and I doubt it really matters.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Interesting. I asked that question to see if you followed the same line of thinking and you did. I like the consistency. I'm going to go slap my Darwin fish back on my Civic.

 

hehe. excellent, so when nature chooses to eliminate your gene pool, I don't have to shed tears, right? I mean, who can argue with nature?

[StrangeSox]

"Why believe in God" is there message.

 

I don't think secular humanism and evolution conflict. Check out Dawkin's The Selfish Gene. It talks about evolution and how organisms are programmed to pass on as many copies of their genes as possible globally and not necessarily individually.

 

hehe. excellent, so when nature chooses to eliminate your gene pool, I don't have to shed tears, right? I mean, who can argue with nature?

 

I think this is exactly the type of message put out by some religious people that the ad was responding to -- human compassion/ morality/ ethics only matter if their is a God.

Edited November 13, 2008 by StrangeSox

[sox4lifeinPA]

Eh, if you're willing to allow ads promoting a religion, you should be willing to allow ads promoting atheism. That's just my simple thought.

 

 

Completely agree. I think billboards and ads like that are bad stewardship anyway and a waste of money. So, you and me both wouldn't mind seeing the pro-religion ads go away.

[sox4lifeinPA]

"Why believe in God" is there message.

 

I don't think secular humanism and evolution conflict. Check out Dawkin's The Selfish Gene. It talks about evolution and how organisms are programmed to pass on as many copies of their genes as possible globally and not necessarily individually.

 

Admittedly, I should read more. My comments are more out of lack of deep knowledge and a simple understanding of the subject, but found myself thinking about it the other day. I just think that no matter what side or belief you take, there'll always be some amount of conclusions you must jump to or faith you must take. I personally believe that there's one way given, but I don't need to push that on others and I don't think Christ calls us to do so. The movie "Jesus Camp" drives me crazy for that very reason.

 

 

so, Is that why so many rednecks have like 20 kids?

[sox4lifeinPA]

"Why believe in God" is there message.

 

I think this is exactly the type of message put out by some religious people that the ad was responding to -- human compassion/ morality/ ethics only matter if their is a God.

 

mprhrpmp

 

*removing tongue from cheek*

 

I'm just unclear on how evolution (which I'm not necessarily opposed to from a speciation stand point) which is more or less a long term experiment in seeing which genetic codes can out last the others, can coexist with humanism. I'd not be a very good evolutionist if I helped other people out, right?

[StrangeSox]

mprhrpmp

 

*removing tongue from cheek*

 

I'm just unclear on how evolution (which I'm not necessarily opposed to from a speciation stand point) which is more or less a long term experiment in seeing which genetic codes can out last the others, can coexist with humanism. I'd not be a very good evolutionist if I helped other people out, right?

 

Nope, evolution doesn't require cutthroat domination of everyone else. It's about survival of the species, and we work best when working together.

 

I don't know too much about "secular humanism," but evolutionary theory doesn't say anything about charity or compassion.

[Texsox]

I do not find an incompatibility between evolution and my religious views.

 

In one camp are the High Priests of Science who claim, after looking at ancient fossils, that life came from a primordial soup and nothing has evolved higher than humans. They can't really explain with absolute proof where the material came from to begin with, it just was.

 

On the other camp, Religions have seen the fossil records and believe that someone or something evolved to a higher level than humans and created this life. They too can't explain with absolute certainty where the raw materials came from. It just was.

 

Much like we have created new genetically altered plants and animals, so too could a higher being have genetically altered this life and set in motion this process of evolution.

[Texsox]

Check out Dawkin's The Selfish Gene. It talks about evolution and how organisms are programmed to pass on as many copies of their genes as possible globally and not necessarily individually.

.So what does it mean when a species is not able to pass on any copies of their genes?

[sox4lifeinPA]

Nope, evolution doesn't require cutthroat domination of everyone else. It's about survival of the species, and we work best when working together.

 

I don't know too much about "secular humanism," but evolutionary theory doesn't say anything about charity or compassion.

 

Fair enough. I was unnecessarily poking fun.

 

 

In the end, my beef is with the wording of the message. Ironically...check out the color the "why believe in God?" is written in. Coincidental, huh?

 

I think not.

[sox4lifeinPA]

.So what does it mean when a species is not able to pass on any copies of their genes?

 

 

uh oh... I don't like where this is going.

[southsider2k5]

Admittedly, I should read more. My comments are more out of lack of deep knowledge and a simple understanding of the subject, but found myself thinking about it the other day. I just think that no matter what side or belief you take, there'll always be some amount of conclusions you must jump to or faith you must take. I personally believe that there's one way given, but I don't need to push that on others and I don't think Christ calls us to do so. The movie "Jesus Camp" drives me crazy for that very reason.

 

 

so, Is that why so many rednecks have like 20 kids?

 

I'd call you a tool, but that would just be insulting my Craftsman

[Texsox]

uh oh... I don't like where this is going.

 

To where darwin becomes uncomfortable for some? I like that spot.

[sox4lifeinPA]

To where darwin becomes uncomfortable for some? I like that spot.

 

b-i-n-g-o

[GoSox05]

American Humanist Association is an organization that promotes secular and other forms of humanism. The ad is centered around helping other people for the sake of helping other people. Not because what will happen to you in the afterlife or your because god tells you to do it. I think its pretty straight forward and un offending. Much better than most religious signs that call people "baby killers" or tell us that we are "going to burn in hell".

 

 

 

 

[longshot7]

Link

 

I get it, anyone can spread their message... but "why believe in god? be good for goodness sake" is just offensive for the sake of grabbing headlines.

 

if these signs just said "be good for goodness sake" no one would care = no one would bother to be interested with this organization. This is the same thing as the "God Hates f**s" people.

 

Oh my god, I love this sign! Faith IS crap.

[NorthSideSox72]

Oh my god, I love this sign! Faith IS crap.

 

*waits for the longshot7 vs BearSox smackdown to begin*

 

[StrangeSox]

.So what does it mean when a species is not able to pass on any copies of their genes?

 

Extinction. Why would that make a scientific theory uncomfortable for anyone? It's a reality.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Extinction. Why would that make a scientific theory uncomfortable for anyone? It's a reality.

 

because then anyone who either chooses not have children or can't have children* lose the everlasting battle for genetic supremacy.

 

*I'll let you decide who those people might be.

[sox4lifeinPA]

American Humanist Association is an organization that promotes secular and other forms of humanism. The ad is centered around helping other people for the sake of helping other people. Not because what will happen to you in the afterlife or your because god tells you to do it. I think its pretty straight forward and un offending. Much better than most religious signs that call people "baby killers" or tell us that we are "going to burn in hell".

 

 

My guess is that you're not religious, therefore, you're not really the target of the offense. So it makes sense you're not offended.

 

 

[Texsox]

American Humanist Association is an organization that promotes secular and other forms of humanism. The ad is centered around helping other people for the sake of helping other people. Not because what will happen to you in the afterlife or your because god tells you to do it. I think its pretty straight forward and un offending. Much better than most religious signs that call people "baby killers" or tell us that we are "going to burn in hell".

 

I don't believe that many, and certainly not most, religious signs mention baby killers. But maybe in your neck of the woods.

 

If the ad was to help other people for the the sake of helping others, why was God even mentioned? Isn't helping people for the sake of helping enough? Why must you reject God in the process?

[Texsox]

Extinction. Why would that make a scientific theory uncomfortable for anyone? It's a reality.

 

And why do some species become extinct?