Williams Shopping Jermaine

[caulfield12]

If I was Friedman, I wouldn't dare take on Octavio Dotel OR his contract.

 

I wouldn't feel very confident about acquiring Wasserman, who wasn't good enough to pitch for the White Sox...a team with multiple issues in its bullpen down the stretch who essentially relied on DJ Carrasco, a Japanese castoff, for much of a 3-4 week stretch when the likes of Wasserman, MacDougal, Russell, etc., could NOT be counted on.

 

I understand dumping salary...but getting rid of Wheeler and Bradford for about the same amount as Dotel...well, I wouldn't do that. Neither Wheeler nor Bradford are capable of being closers, but I don't think Dotel is either, based on his career track record (before injuries) and how he did in the majority of high pressure situations in July/August/September of 2008.

 

I also can't imagine they would give up their #3 RHSP prospect in this deal at all...sure, Niemann's available, maybe even McGee, but Davis isn't going anywhere unless we significantly sweeten the pot. Just because they have a lot of depth right now doesn't guarantee there won't be injuries or performance issues...look at the depth we had in 2000-2001 ("waves and waves" of pitching were on the horizon, a Braves-like dynasty was a common description) and how quickly all of it went south. Just sit on that depth until someone gets REALLY desperate and they make an offer you can't refuse. There's nothing FORCING the Rays to move their depth yet...they have plenty of time to wait for the best offer/s.

Edited November 13, 2008 by caulfield12

[beautox]

Didn't Bailey lose a ton off his FB? For a guy who was always a thrower, not a pitcher, that would scare me.

From what i've read hes been sitting mid 90's; they've been tweaking his mechanics and repertoire, i have a creeping suspicion they're trying to make him less of a thrower and more of a pitcher like jenks; that or he is off the "supplements"?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If I was Friedman, I wouldn't dare take on Octavio Dotel OR his contract.

 

I wouldn't feel very confident about acquiring Wasserman, who wasn't good enough to pitch for the White Sox...a team with multiple issues in its bullpen down the stretch who essentially relied on DJ Carrasco, a Japanese castoff, for much of a 3-4 week stretch when the likes of Wasserman, MacDougal, Russell, etc., could NOT be counted on.

 

I understand dumping salary...but getting rid of Wheeler and Bradford for about the same amount as Dotel...well, I wouldn't do that. Neither Wheeler nor Bradford are capable of being closers, but I don't think Dotel is either, based on his career track record (before injuries) and how he did in the majority of high pressure situations in July/August/September of 2008.

 

I also can't imagine they would give up their #3 RHSP prospect in this deal at all...sure, Niemann's available, maybe even McGee, but Davis isn't going anywhere unless we significantly sweeten the pot. Just because they have a lot of depth right now doesn't guarantee there won't be injuries or performance issues...look at the depth we had in 2000-2001 ("waves and waves" of pitching were on the horizon, a Braves-like dynasty was a common description) and how quickly all of it went south. Just sit on that depth until someone gets REALLY desperate and they make an offer you can't refuse. There's nothing FORCING the Rays to move their depth yet...they have plenty of time to wait for the best offer/s.

 

If I were Friedman I wouldn't have been all crazy about acquiring Grant Balfour, JP Howell, Dan Wheeler, or Trevor Miller among others, and I certainly wouldn't have given Troy Percival a bunch of money to close. I think it's safe to say Friedman - or anyone else for that matter - would look at Dotel as an upgrade over him. The only guy in the Rays pen (from the right handed side) that Dotel might not be an upgrade over is Balfour, but he still hasn't proven himself over a full season. I think he's turned the corner and will be very good for quite a while, but he hasn't proven he can get over a bad stretch in the Majors yet. Dotel as a setup man with Balfour closing or Dotel closing with Balfour as a setup man is better than anything they've got.

 

I also don't think any GM would take the Sox bullpen situation into consideration at all. They'd look at a guy like Wassermann, see what he brings, see his excellent minor league career, excellent Majoe League 2007 and very poor Major League 2008, and then make a decision that way. Those other names don't matter to anyone aside from Sox fans. I mentioned Wassermann because if you look at who is in their bullpen - Howell and Miller from the left side and Bradford from the right side - he likes those guys. If he feels Wassermann, who has just as much ability as Bradford minus the experience and $3.5M contract, can be another Bradford, then why wouldn't he have at least some interest?

 

You kind of contradict yourself here. You ask why would they trade a top pitching prospect yet also talk about how easy prospects can blow up in your face. I don't know if they'd be willing to shop Davis, but they want another RH bat, need a DH, and have about 2 years more to contend before they have to start selling some guys off, unless their fans start showing up during the regular season. Ask yourself, who is out there? Think they'll spend $13M+ on Pat Burrell for 3 years or more? $25M+ on Manny Ramirez? Think another team is going to trade their young, affordable slugger for prospects? There's maybe Hermida or Francouer out there, who will be getting paid in arbitration and still haven't broken out. All things considered, Dye just may be the best thing actually available that fits their needs. The prospects are speculation on my part, but Kenny has no fifth starter and will apparently trade Javy, so it makes sense that he would target Major League-ready SP prospects who have the potential to be pretty good.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

From what i've read hes been sitting mid 90's; they've been tweaking his mechanics and repertoire, i have a creeping suspicion they're trying to make him less of a thrower and more of a pitcher like jenks; that or he is off the "supplements"?

That's better then if he's still in the mid-nineties. I read something somewhere that he had been working in like the 90-92 range. That would scare me. That said, I trust Kenny's people. If Homer is available and they think he will be a very good Major League pitcher then I'd make that deal.

[daa84]

why in gods name would the rays trade garza? he's young, cheap, good and they just traded delmon young to get him. Why would they trade him for an aging RF who should probably be playing DH that costs 12 mil per? These threads are getting ridiculous.

 

Secondly, to those who don't think Price has good breaking stuff...you haven't watched him. His slider is filthy this is from Baseball America last year...

 

He throws a plus-plus slider that reaches 87 mph and has a late, sharp bite. His changeup is also a plus pitch with excellent deception and fade

 

Keep in mind also that this was Price's first year in pro ball, and he missed the first month of the season so when you saw him it was only after 19 games of seasoning in the minors. Poreda had 12 games in the minors last year, so what you saw out of Price was basically what you would have seen with Poreda had Poreda made the team out of ST this year. Price also struck out a batter per inning, Poreda K'd 118 in 161 IP this year. Price is the real deal...hes got an unreal attitude and drive as a competitor. He's gonna be a top 3 pitcher in baseball in 2 years IMO. Of course I am somewhat biased having seen him pitch his entire college career

Edited November 13, 2008 by daa84

[DBAHO]

Ok lets get away from Tampa Bay for a minute, considering there are 28 other teams in the MLB.

 

What are some other teams that would be interested in JD?

 

Philly - If they lose Burrell, although they may stick with Jenkins and Werth in the corners. I'd be looking for a package built around Carrasco, their stud pitching prospect, who's almost MLB ready.

 

Mets - They're looking to upgrade in a corner OF spot. I'd look for a package built around Daniel Murphy, who could play 2B or 3B for us.

 

Giants - They desperately want a big bat in the lineup. They'd probably offer Sanchez + something. That something would have to be a pretty damn good prospect, because they don't have a lot else that interests me at the MLB level.

 

Dodgers - If they lose Manny, they'd want a big bat to replace him. They'd probably offer Pierre + something, but I'd be after Matt Kemp.

[Princess Dye]

i am not opposed to dealing Jenks.

 

His price is about to skyrocket.

 

His Ks are declining.

 

He doesn't stay in shape.

 

And he has that screw in his arm.

 

But ... we don't have anybody to fill that role.

 

That's Kenny's dilemma.

 

Thornton is the strikeout guy of that pen right now, Jenks or no Jenks.

 

And there is other left handed relief in the organization (Poreda, Richard)

[Steve9347]

I don't understand shopping Jenks.

The team plays, at a minimum, 1,458 innings.

 

A closer such as Bobby pitches roughly 60-70 innings a year (last year 61.2, the year before 65, the year before that 69.2).

 

If you can get a package of prospects for Bobby or something to fill a role that plays in more than 4% of a baseball season, you f***ing do it. I don't see how anyone would even argue that point.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Ok lets get away from Tampa Bay for a minute, considering there are 28 other teams in the MLB.

 

What are some other teams that would be interested in JD?

 

Philly - If they lose Burrell, although they may stick with Jenkins and Werth in the corners. I'd be looking for a package built around Carrasco, their stud pitching prospect, who's almost MLB ready.

 

Mets - They're looking to upgrade in a corner OF spot. I'd look for a package built around Daniel Murphy, who could play 2B or 3B for us.

 

Giants - They desperately want a big bat in the lineup. They'd probably offer Sanchez + something. That something would have to be a pretty damn good prospect, because they don't have a lot else that interests me at the MLB level.

 

Dodgers - If they lose Manny, they'd want a big bat to replace him. They'd probably offer Pierre + something, but I'd be after Matt Kemp.

I don't know about Sanchez. He's pretty damn good. If I had him I wouldn't deal him straight up for Dye. There was a ST game televised last year that was Danks against Sanchez and it looked like they were almost mirror images of each other. Danks is better, but Sanchez isn't all that far behind IMO.

 

I think targeting Murphy all depends on whether or not the Sox sign Viciedo. If they do, then you figure Viciedo/Fields at 3B in '09 and beyond, Ramirez at SS in '09 and beyond, and Beckham at 2B in 2010 and beyond. If Viciedo doesn't sign then things change a lot because now you just have Fields as a question mark at 3B. Either Beckham or Alexei could play 3B, SS, or 2B so then that opens things up for a new addition.

 

BTW, WTF are the Sox doing with all these stud or potential stud infielders? I thought they were supposed to hate that! And Brandon Allen could be ready for 2010 too depending how he does in Birmingham next year.

[Chisoxfn]

story in tomorrow's Tribune says that two NL scouts say Kenny Williams is shopping Jermaine.

 

The Sell High theory.

 

and he will probably have more suitors than Thome or PK.

 

Also says that Jenks could be moved.

 

Sounds like Kenny is trying to be creative and get younger.'

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,7366873.story

I'm really intrigued to see what ends up happening this off-season. Kenny has a variety of options and I really do believe he's one of the smartest GM's in the game. He may not always get the greatest value in certain trades (can give up too much at timesm) but the guys he targets tend to pan out and often times in a big way and thats a major plus in my book. He's also done one hell of a job in just one off-season, where this team is younger and much better off, despite having zero farm system.

 

The system is now on the mend and two to four years I think the Sox will be the envy of most of baseball.

[Milkman delivers]

While, he must not have had that solid plus-plus slider in the playoffs.

 

His whole approach is bad anyway. He has a delivery that would be deceitful to lefties, yet his slider is more effective vs. righties down and in. Also, his fastball had some good zip, but didn't have much movement.

 

I'll tell you guys now, Price isn't going to be a stud starter but rather a solid middle of the rotation guy.

 

Ah, so I should believe you over everyone else I've ever heard comment on the guy. You've proven yourself in the past, so I'm on board!

Edited November 13, 2008 by Milkman delivers

[DBAHO]

I don't know about Sanchez. He's pretty damn good. If I had him I wouldn't deal him straight up for Dye. There was a ST game televised last year that was Danks against Sanchez and it looked like they were almost mirror images of each other. Danks is better, but Sanchez isn't all that far behind IMO.

 

I think targeting Murphy all depends on whether or not the Sox sign Viciedo. If they do, then you figure Viciedo/Fields at 3B in '09 and beyond, Ramirez at SS in '09 and beyond, and Beckham at 2B in 2010 and beyond. If Viciedo doesn't sign then things change a lot because now you just have Fields as a question mark at 3B. Either Beckham or Alexei could play 3B, SS, or 2B so then that opens things up for a new addition.

 

BTW, WTF are the Sox doing with all these stud or potential stud infielders? I thought they were supposed to hate that! And Brandon Allen could be ready for 2010 too depending how he does in Birmingham next year.

Murphy could play anywhere from 2B/3B/LF/RF IMHO, depending on how he handles those infield positions defensively, and what the Sox do in other areas.

 

He's exactly the type of young hitter I think KW should be targeting though. One that can hit around .300, good strike zone judgement, and enough pop to probably hit around 20-25HR's in his prime (especially at the Cell).

 

Sanchez really tailed off in the 2nd half of last season IIRC. I'd still be interested possibly in him though, but I'd want a stud prospect from the Giants if I was going to give up Dye.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Murphy could play anywhere from 2B/3B/LF/RF IMHO, depending on how he handles those infield positions defensively, and what the Sox do in other areas.

 

He's exactly the type of young hitter I think KW should be targeting though. One that can hit around .300, good strike zone judgement, and enough pop to probably hit around 20-25HR's in his prime (especially at the Cell).

 

Sanchez really tailed off in the 2nd half of last season IIRC. I'd still be interested possibly in him though, but I'd want a stud prospect from the Giants if I was going to give up Dye.

I'd have no problem with Murphy, but if it's Jenks we're dealing I'd like to see Kenny aim a little higher, like Fernando Martinez + Jon Niese or something. I just really don't want to see Kenny sell low on Jenks or settle for a "good deal" on Jenks. I want Kenny to start asking for these ridiculous packages that teams like the Orioles ask for their complimentary players. Jenks is a guy that actually is worth a ton.

 

For Dye or Vazquez I think Murphy could be a nice centerpiece, although I'd prefer a CF prospect if at all possible since those are so hard to come by. Texas has a buttload of those, if they'd be interested in any of our guys. Atlanta has a couple, although they're rumored to be dealing my favorite one (Gorkys) for Peavy, plus Schafer is coming off a suspension for roids and Heyward is supposed to be untouchable.

[elrockinMT]

i am not opposed to dealing Jenks.

 

His price is about to skyrocket.

 

His Ks are declining.

 

He doesn't stay in shape.

 

And he has that screw in his arm.

 

But ... we don't have anybody to fill that role.

 

That's Kenny's dilemma.

 

 

I feel strongly both ways about that

[BearSox]

why in gods name would the rays trade garza? he's young, cheap, good and they just traded delmon young to get him. Why would they trade him for an aging RF who should probably be playing DH that costs 12 mil per? These threads are getting ridiculous.

 

Secondly, to those who don't think Price has good breaking stuff...you haven't watched him. His slider is filthy this is from Baseball America last year...

 

 

 

Keep in mind also that this was Price's first year in pro ball, and he missed the first month of the season so when you saw him it was only after 19 games of seasoning in the minors. Poreda had 12 games in the minors last year, so what you saw out of Price was basically what you would have seen with Poreda had Poreda made the team out of ST this year. Price also struck out a batter per inning, Poreda K'd 118 in 161 IP this year. Price is the real deal...hes got an unreal attitude and drive as a competitor. He's gonna be a top 3 pitcher in baseball in 2 years IMO. Of course I am somewhat biased having seen him pitch his entire college career

I did not see such a great slider in the playoffs. However, it is a small sample size and he is still raw as a pitcher.

 

I still stand by my theory of him being an over-hyped prospect who will turn out to be a good pitcher, but never great. He only has two pitches, and neither greatly impressed me. If he can develop a solid change to go along with his above average fastball and only decent slider (which still might get better, or might not have really been there for him in the playoffs), he can become a top of the rotation guy, IMO. It also never hurts that you're a lefty... I really don't like his delivery though, as it's only really deceitful to lefties, and as I stated earlier, his slider is/will be more effective vs. righties.

 

We'll see... I doubt he becomes one of the top 2 or 3 starters in the league, but you never know.

[caulfield12]

I'd have no problem with Murphy, but if it's Jenks we're dealing I'd like to see Kenny aim a little higher, like Fernando Martinez + Jon Niese or something. I just really don't want to see Kenny sell low on Jenks or settle for a "good deal" on Jenks. I want Kenny to start asking for these ridiculous packages that teams like the Orioles ask for their complimentary players. Jenks is a guy that actually is worth a ton.

 

For Dye or Vazquez I think Murphy could be a nice centerpiece, although I'd prefer a CF prospect if at all possible since those are so hard to come by. Texas has a buttload of those, if they'd be interested in any of our guys. Atlanta has a couple, although they're rumored to be dealing my favorite one (Gorkys) for Peavy, plus Schafer is coming off a suspension for roids and Heyward is supposed to be untouchable.

 

 

TEX has been linked often to the K-Rod sweepstakes, so I can see them also being willing to look at Jenks, because of the salary being so much lower, even in his arbitration years.

 

As far as Price goes, another LH pitcher I remember being overhyped was the Tigers' Andrew Miller. The first time I saw him, I was like, this is the "power pitcher the Sox are supposed to be cowering in front of...???"

 

I haven't seen Price pitch, so I'll defer to those who have, as some here are relying more on scouting reports, others on seeing him pitch at Vandy, others on what he did in the playoffs (or didn't do).

 

 

[BearSox]

Oh man, would I love to land Daniel Murphy. Man, he is a ball player. Talk about someone with a real solid approach to the plate to go along with a nice swing as well. Murphy is up there ready to hit, yet he is very patient. I would love to get him plus another couple of pieces from the Mets for Jenks or even Vazquez, or even possibly Dye.

 

I'd put Murphy at either 3rd and trade Fields (anyone know how his D at 3rd is), or in a corner OF spot if Dye is traded.

[greg775]

Finally, greg, Jim Thome was arguably more valuable than Jermaine Dye was this season. He never played mediocre defense - hard to do when you don't play defense - and, with more concrete and baseball evidence, he was the only Sox player this season who batted left handed that was an above average major league hitter. He hit homers, he struck out, or he walked...chance just so happens that Thome got on base for free 95 times this season without hits - which excludes his 34 free runs - and he was arguably the Sox 2nd most valuable player, outside of Quentin. I would damn near guarantee he repeats that feat next year, with much hate from White Sox fans who believe that Thome is not clutch (which he isn't against left handed relievers, because he can't hit left handed pitching, noted by his "mediocre" BB/9 against lefties and his bad K+GIDP/PA against lefties, which was right around 1/3), regardless of his feats in the 15 or 16 inning Anaheim game and his 163rd game heroics. Thome's here to stay, because he won't approve a trade, and because he's a goddamn f***ing stud, and anybody who still questions that needs to look at what he actually did this season for the White Sox.

 

Fair enough.

Jimmy did a good job of staying healthy this past season. Hope his back hangs in there with all those hacks he takes. I don't hate Jimmy, especially after that blast against Minnie. I also like Dye, though, quite a bit actually.

[zenryan]

why do people still bring up Carl Crawford? Every offseason there are some who think the Rays want to get rid of him.

[witesoxfan]

TEX has been linked often to the K-Rod sweepstakes, so I can see them also being willing to look at Jenks, because of the salary being so much lower, even in his arbitration years.

 

I see Texas signing Wood.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If Tampa Bay trades for Dye or any OF close to Dye's 09 salary I'll eat a bug. You all have lost it

Edited November 14, 2008 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Fair enough.

Jimmy did a good job of staying healthy this past season. Hope his back hangs in there with all those hacks he takes. I don't hate Jimmy, especially after that blast against Minnie. I also like Dye, though, quite a bit actually.

Which is exactly why the Sox will work JD into a platoon at DH with Thome if the Sox keep Dye and some other pieces fall into place.

[RockRaines]

Whoa. I just read a rumor that St Louis was interested in Dye and Javy and have been dangling Colby Rasmus. He would be a perfect fit for us. He's a CF'er, lead off hitter, has speed.

[Chisoxfn]

He'd be a nice fit, but I wouldn't trade Dye straight up for Rasmus. I would probably trade a combination of Dye & Javy for a package involving Rasmus, a pitching prospect, and Ankiel. Rasmus is also a bit overhyped, imo. Very talented in terms of tools but he hasn't necessarily dominated the minors.

[Ozzie Ball]

Whoa. I just read a rumor that St Louis was interested in Dye and Javy and have been dangling Colby Rasmus. He would be a perfect fit for us. He's a CF'er, lead off hitter, has speed.

If we could get a package involving Rasmus that would be great, then all we'd need to do is flip some prospects to Florida for Hermida, sign Lowe and we'd be almost set.

 

Oh, also, could I get a link to that rumour?