santo=dorf Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 He actually produced for quite a while. Doesn't meean he wasn't the most overrated. Some foolish Sox fans and announcers thought he was better than A-Rod and was the second coming of Mike Schmidt or Pete Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:19 PM) Am I the only one who kind of likes this trade? Okay yes, it sucks dumping a guy after giving up prospects to the A's last year (although De Los Santos is really the only guy who could come back and bite them) but lets face it, Swish was a guy without a position on this team who's numbers had fallen off significantly. I seem to recall DLS having Tommy John surgery. I know he went down early in the year after struggling and I don't think he came back. Gio's probably boom or bust. Sweeney probably will end up as a solid regular, but not until his power develops. I'm perfectly fine with the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:24 PM) Here's how you know Swisher sucked last year....we had two play-in games to make the playoffs, and he could only find the field as a defensive replacement. I would have started Swisher over Wise both times. There's no doubt Swisher had a down year for him. My argument is he was playing out of position and he should have hit 2nd all year, I was hoping for a bounce back year, my concern is he was sold low, but I do trust KW and I know this isn't his last move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 06:25 PM) Look for Dunn to sign with the Cubs and play RF. nah, dunn never hits in wrigley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 The White Sox are absolutely in love with Viciedo. Swisher moving means he will be signed, I'd put money on that. I'm guessing about 4 years at 2.5-3 mill per for Dayan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 If they trade Vazquez, they'll be rid of two of my least favorite White Sox players ever in one offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:25 PM) Look for Dunn to sign with the Cubs and play RF. that would be the most logical moves the Cubs could make for their offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 05:24 PM) That would make my dream come true. I am a huge fan of Dunn. Mainly because I dont think I've ever seen him hit a ball under 450 feet. Really, yeah. Some of his shots are just majestic. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Dunn hit a cheap homerun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 10:28 PM) that would be the most logical moves the Cubs could make for their offense. Disagree, they should use every resource possible to acquire Roberts. Dunn would kill that team defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I'm ok with this deal. I liked Swisher as a person, but didn't like how he played this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 From the standpoint of this year and this year only, I like the trade. Looking back a year, Gio/Sweeney/Fautino blow Marquez/Betemit/Nunez out of the water in terms of value at the time of the trade. But I like what we got for the most part, and think it's fair value. We'll just put Swisher in the mistake pile for KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) FYI betemit has an .814 OPS vs. righties, .620 vs. lefties Edited November 13, 2008 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:23 PM) For that quality of defense, yes you're going to get Ripped. If Thome goes then I won't complain, but you don't sign Dunn to play the field. Not unless you're just suicidal. I wouldn't mind Dunn butchering balls in LF in '09 so long as it led to him taking over for Thome in 2010 as a lefty DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Reminds me exactly of the Gavin Floyd acquisition; Marquez, 24, was watched closely this fall by Sox scouts in the Arizona Fall League, where he posted a 1-2 record and 4.50 ERA for the Peoria Javalinas. Sox General Manager Kenny Williams watched him pitch Wednesday. Marquez was 15-9 in 2007 at Double-A Trenton but was nagged by a lat pull in 2008. He was 6-7 with a 4.69 ERA in 14 starts at Triple-A Wilkes-Barre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:30 PM) Disagree, they should use every resource possible to acquire Roberts. Dunn would kill that team defensively. yup and they say its really hard to play rf in wrigley. i remembered him looking horrible in lf against the cubs. thatd be funny lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (striker62704 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:22 PM) I'll probably get killed for saying this but if you look at 2005-2007 and compare Uribe and Swisher offensively, Swisher isn't that good. 2005-2007 hr/rbi/avg/obp Uribe 19/70/.240/.281 Swisher 26/82/.251/.358 I'm not saying Uribe is as good as Swisher, I'm just saying if you compare Swisher to Uribe you'll see he's isn't going to be missed. OK, this is a basic, down and dirty quick stat, but an OPS+ of 100 is an average hitter, league and ball park adjusted, with ever number above or below 100 basicaly meaning the player is a percentage point better than average. http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/swishni01.shtml 05-07 Swisher's OPS + was 111.25, including his 92 from 08, meaning he was 11.25% better than an average player http://www.baseball-reference.com/u/uribeju01.shtml over the same years Uribe's OPS was 77, 23% below average. You can make the argument that Swisher was a 34% better player over those years, and that's including 08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 06:34 PM) Reminds me exactly of the Gavin Floyd acquisition; its strange KW really loves to scout the AFL....i mean its a good place to see prospects playing against other high level prospects (especially for guys who have only played in A ball like beckham) but it really seems like KW puts more stock into what he sees there than most GMs....sometimes i think he puts too much stock into it...i believe nick masset was acquired heavily because of his "jenks lite" effort given at the AFL as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Oh boy, this board is gonna be slammed the next few days. We will have one signing before the week is over for sure. And another trade before thanksgiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 05:32 PM) From the standpoint of this year and this year only, I like the trade. Looking back a year, Gio/Sweeney/Fautino blow Marquez/Betemit/Nunez out of the water in terms of value at the time of the trade. But I like what we got for the most part, and think it's fair value. We'll just put Swisher in the mistake pile for KW. Agreed on all counts. It's a decent way to kick off what's sure to be an interesting offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 11:35 PM) OK, this is a basic, down and dirty quick stat, but an OPS+ of 100 is an average hitter, league and ball park adjusted, with ever number above or below 100 basicaly meaning the player is a percentage point better than average. http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/swishni01.shtml 05-07 Swisher's OPS + was 111.25, including his 92 from 08, meaning he was 11.25% better than an average player http://www.baseball-reference.com/u/uribeju01.shtml over the same years Uribe's OPS was 77, 23% below average. You can make the argument that Swisher was a 34% better player over those years, and that's including 08. I'm only trying to say that Swisher wasn't as awesome as some people make him out to be. Some people say the Sox got fleeced and I don't thinnk they did. You mentioned that Swisher's OPS was 11% better than average, which is kind of what I was saying, he's average. You just presented it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:36 PM) i believe nick masset was acquired heavily because of his "jenks lite" effort given at the AFL as well Yeah, but John Danks came in that one too, so no harm no foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (striker62704 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:37 PM) I'm only trying to say that Swisher wasn't as awesome as some people make him out to be. Some people say the Sox got fleeced and I don't thinnk they did. You mentioned that Swisher's OPS was 11% better than average, which is kind of what I was saying, he's average. You just presented it better. No one thinks Swisher is awesome anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:28 PM) The White Sox are absolutely in love with Viciedo. Swisher moving means he will be signed, I'd put money on that. I'm guessing about 4 years at 2.5-3 mill per for Dayan. It will be a much longer contract than that. At least 6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 05:36 PM) its strange KW really loves to scout the AFL....i mean its a good place to see prospects playing against other high level prospects (especially for guys who have only played in A ball like beckham) but it really seems like KW puts more stock into what he sees there than most GMs....sometimes i think he puts too much stock into it...i believe nick masset was acquired heavily because of his "jenks lite" effort given at the AFL as well I think because he sees how well a pitcher uses his breaking ball though. Arizona's notoriously bad for pitchers, and KW fell in love with Floyd's curveball a few seasons ago. Maybe he did the same with Marquez's sinker here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 05:36 PM) its strange KW really loves to scout the AFL....i mean its a good place to see prospects playing against other high level prospects (especially for guys who have only played in A ball like beckham) but it really seems like KW puts more stock into what he sees there than most GMs....sometimes i think he puts too much stock into it...i believe nick masset was acquired heavily because of his "jenks lite" effort given at the AFL as well Actually Masset was pitching in the Mexican Winter League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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