Swish Traded to the Yankees

[caulfield12]

"Evaluating GMs is really subjective. I strongly disagree with the idea that Kenny is a top three executive in baseball, let alone all of sports. I just don't see eye to eye with the guy. I vehemently disagree with many of his moves, probably due to his distaste for players that come through his own minor league system. I'd without question rather have all the following guys as a GM: Beane, Epstein, Cashman, Josh Byrnes, Andrew Friedman, Doug Melvin, Mark Shapiro, and Shuerholz." Original quote...

 

You're drinking some serious Kool-Aid thinking Shapiro is better. Andy Marte? Jason Johnson? Going into the season with Borowski as a closer? Josh Barfield? What have the Indians done, exactly, the last four years? Not much, considering their overall talent level. Sure, there's Sizemore and Lee, but that only gets you so far, and KW's deal for Colon was pretty sweet too? Or you like like Michaels/Dellucci so much in LF?

 

Cashman and Epstein can't be compared...it's like saying what could Phil Jackson do without Jordan or two superstars paired together? Not very much. What has Cashman done that's so great over the last five years besides loads of bloated pitching contracts and idiotic deals like Carl Pavano...Jose Contreras for a washed-up Loaiza and eating a big part of the future best pitcher in baseball's contract? Brilliant! Brian Cashman is one of the worst GM's in New York Yankee history. He rode Gene Michael's roster to three Championship rings. The major acquisition was Roger Clemens, who George Steinbrenner had wanted for years.

 

When Michaels' guys started fading, there was no one on the farm from Cashman's early drafts. He's butchered one free agent signing after another; spending tons of money on big names with ZERO chemistry. Cashman put the emphasis on power hitting; over pitching and defense and situational hitting. He was handed a successful blueprint by Gene Michael (who is a genius), and he put it in the shredder. As a matter of fact, it was the Red Sox who wanted to make Gene Michael their GM but was rebuffed by Steinbrenner. The Red Sox have been using the Gene Michael blueprint, and have two Championships to show for it. Ptiching, defense, OBP, situational hitting. The blueprint was copied by Theo Epstein. Give him credit for witnessing true genius, and duplicating it. Unfortunately, Cashman isn't that bright.

 

Brian Cashman has quite possibly THE WORST RECORD OF ALL-TIME in signing free agent pitchers. He passed on Johan, to protect his apparently over hyped prospects. I wanted to trade Robinson Cano, Melkey Cabrera and Ian Kennedy last off season for Johan Santana and Pat Neshek. Almost every Yankee fan was too afraid to deal Cano following a strong second half of 2007. I felt Cano was severly overrated. And it was overlooked that Cano never seems to put in a full season. Now this off season, rumors say the Yankees are considering dealing him to Joe Torre's Dodgers. We could have had Santana without giving up Phil Hughes.

 

Brian Cashman kept his job because his butt buddy is the younger, Hal Steinbrenner. Big mouth Hank may be an idiot, but at least he's right about Cashman, and was right about Johan. The Media keeps protecting Cashman (he must know somebody) because he protected the young prospects. But of all those prospects, only Joba Chamberlin looks legit. And Cashman, with his overrated Manager Joe Giardi, want to make him a reliever again. Idiotic. I hope Joba gets 'enough innings' to be a stud starter sometime before he retires. Phil Hughes is beginning to look like a 'David West' situation. Melky was nothing more than a fourth outfielder, if that. Cano showed that he's not the player that Cashman thought he was. Ian Kennedy is a disaster, and has Scott Boras as his agent. Why couldn't Cashman deal him?

 

I was happy to see Cashman acquire Marte and Nady last season. One of the few times he did something right. But today he acquires Nick Swisher. This guy is poor defensively at TWO positions. He's a young Jason Giambi, without the advantage of steroid enhanced play. Swisher hit .216 last year. Terrible fit, and I guarantee you that Cashman is planning on Swisher for centerfield.

 

Now that he's re-signed, we can only hope that George Steinbrenner rises from near death, and gives this guy the boot he deserves. HATE is not a strong enough word for how I feel about this pretender.

 

Epstein? Hardly. Comparing apples and oranges.

 

Beane? Overrated and overhyped. He's become successful at creating an illusion based on smoke and mirrors but has never won a thing. He has succeeded in dumping Hudson, Zito, Harden and Mulder before they were totally worthless...but the main reason for his success was the Big 3 pitchers, not drafting and not Moneyball. Nice move to let Dan Haren go, by the way. Blanton looked pretty good to me in the World Series. The one player he decides to hold onto, 3B Eric Chavez, is now basically without value.

 

Byrnes, Friedman (let's wait for some sustained success there, how many Top 10 picks can any professional franchise have without blindly stumbling into a diamond or two) and Melvin aren't consistently great...they've made mistakes, too.

 

Schuerholz...I won't argue with. But he's not a MLB GM anymore, and the Braves only won one World Series in 14 years.

 

If you want to argue the best, Terry Ryan/Smith are/were better, but KW is catching up.

 

Other than that, you can make plausible arguments that he's #3-5 in the majors now...Jocketty and Gillick are up there too, so no worse than 6-7-8.

 

You put KW in charge of the Yankees or Red Sox over the last decade, or the Dodgers/Mets, I guarantee he'd have multiple championships working without financial constraints.

Edited November 15, 2008 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Carl Everett never got on base enough to win us a championship.

 

 

Yeah, but we had to give up studs Anthony Webster and Josh Rupe to get him and he (Everett) thinks "The Flintstones" are live programming from Burbank.

Edited November 15, 2008 by caulfield12

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Yeah, but we had to give up studs Anthony Webster and Josh Rupe to get him and he (Everett) thinks "The Flintstones" are live programming from Burbank.

Webster and Rupe are the greatest players to ever set foot in Texas. Future Cy Young Jon Rauch was sent away for garbage because Kenny Williams is a home-wrecking asshole who couldn't understand that sometimes it's important for rookie pitchers to leave their teams during the game to go have dinner with their families. Damn Kenny Williams and his Crazy Carl trades! They've cost us like 42 championships, and the one we did win partly because of it, well... that one doesn't count.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

"Evaluating GMs is really subjective. I strongly disagree with the idea that Kenny is a top three executive in baseball, let alone all of sports. I just don't see eye to eye with the guy. I vehemently disagree with many of his moves, probably due to his distaste for players that come through his own minor league system. I'd without question rather have all the following guys as a GM: Beane, Epstein, Cashman, Josh Byrnes, Andrew Friedman, Doug Melvin, Mark Shapiro, and Shuerholz." Original quote...

 

You're drinking some serious Kool-Aid thinking Shapiro is better. Andy Marte? Jason Johnson? Going into the season with Borowski as a closer? Josh Barfield? What have the Indians done, exactly, the last four years? Not much, considering their overall talent level. Sure, there's Sizemore and Lee, but that only gets you so far, and KW's deal for Colon was pretty sweet too? Or you like like Michaels/Dellucci so much in LF?

 

Cashman and Epstein can't be compared...it's like saying what could Phil Jackson do without Jordan or two superstars paired together? Not very much. What has Cashman done that's so great over the last five years besides loads of bloated pitching contracts and idiotic deals like Carl Pavano...Jose Contreras for a washed-up Loaiza and eating a big part of the future best pitcher in baseball's contract? Brilliant! Brian Cashman is one of the worst GM's in New York Yankee history. He rode Gene Michael's roster to three Championship rings. The major acquisition was Roger Clemens, who George Steinbrenner had wanted for years.

 

When Michaels' guys started fading, there was no one on the farm from Cashman's early drafts. He's butchered one free agent signing after another; spending tons of money on big names with ZERO chemistry. Cashman put the emphasis on power hitting; over pitching and defense and situational hitting. He was handed a successful blueprint by Gene Michael (who is a genius), and he put it in the shredder. As a matter of fact, it was the Red Sox who wanted to make Gene Michael their GM but was rebuffed by Steinbrenner. The Red Sox have been using the Gene Michael blueprint, and have two Championships to show for it. Ptiching, defense, OBP, situational hitting. The blueprint was copied by Theo Epstein. Give him credit for witnessing true genius, and duplicating it. Unfortunately, Cashman isn't that bright.

 

Brian Cashman has quite possibly THE WORST RECORD OF ALL-TIME in signing free agent pitchers. He passed on Johan, to protect his apparently over hyped prospects. I wanted to trade Robinson Cano, Melkey Cabrera and Ian Kennedy last off season for Johan Santana and Pat Neshek. Almost every Yankee fan was too afraid to deal Cano following a strong second half of 2007. I felt Cano was severly overrated. And it was overlooked that Cano never seems to put in a full season. Now this off season, rumors say the Yankees are considering dealing him to Joe Torre's Dodgers. We could have had Santana without giving up Phil Hughes.

 

Brian Cashman kept his job because his butt buddy is the younger, Hal Steinbrenner. Big mouth Hank may be an idiot, but at least he's right about Cashman, and was right about Johan. The Media keeps protecting Cashman (he must know somebody) because he protected the young prospects. But of all those prospects, only Joba Chamberlin looks legit. And Cashman, with his overrated Manager Joe Giardi, want to make him a reliever again. Idiotic. I hope Joba gets 'enough innings' to be a stud starter sometime before he retires. Phil Hughes is beginning to look like a 'David West' situation. Melky was nothing more than a fourth outfielder, if that. Cano showed that he's not the player that Cashman thought he was. Ian Kennedy is a disaster, and has Scott Boras as his agent. Why couldn't Cashman deal him?

 

I was happy to see Cashman acquire Marte and Nady last season. One of the few times he did something right. But today he acquires Nick Swisher. This guy is poor defensively at TWO positions. He's a young Jason Giambi, without the advantage of steroid enhanced play. Swisher hit .216 last year. Terrible fit, and I guarantee you that Cashman is planning on Swisher for centerfield.

 

Now that he's re-signed, we can only hope that George Steinbrenner rises from near death, and gives this guy the boot he deserves. HATE is not a strong enough word for how I feel about this pretender.

 

Epstein? Hardly. Comparing apples and oranges.

 

Beane? Overrated and overhyped. He's become successful at creating an illusion based on smoke and mirrors but has never won a thing. He has succeeded in dumping Hudson, Zito, Harden and Mulder before they were totally worthless...but the main reason for his success was the Big 3 pitchers, not drafting and not Moneyball. Nice move to let Dan Haren go, by the way. Blanton looked pretty good to me in the World Series. The one player he decides to hold onto, 3B Eric Chavez, is now basically without value.

 

Byrnes, Friedman (let's wait for some sustained success there, how many Top 10 picks can any professional franchise have without blindly stumbling into a diamond or two) and Melvin aren't consistently great...they've made mistakes, too.

 

Schuerholz...I won't argue with. But he's not a MLB GM anymore, and the Braves only won one World Series in 14 years.

 

If you want to argue the best, Terry Ryan/Smith are/were better, but KW is catching up.

 

Other than that, you can make plausible arguments that he's #3-5 in the majors now...Jocketty and Gillick are up there too, so no worse than 6-7-8.

 

You put KW in charge of the Yankees or Red Sox over the last decade, or the Dodgers/Mets, I guarantee he'd have multiple championships working without financial constraints.

 

I think you're a little hard on Beane actually. The guy did do a lot and with a Boston/New York type of budget I think he'd do a great job overall. They certainly know how to spend on the farm system over there.

 

Cashman... yeah, he's not all that great. The Johan thing was stupid and I thought it was stupid on the part of the Red Sox as well, even though the Red Sox were reportedly offering better players. I don't care what prospects you have, if you can acquire Johan Santana in his prime, and if you have the green light on extending him, and if you can make that deal and still have a lot left on your farm, and if you can pencil in that kind of salary knowing it will not hurt your ability to make other significant additions to the Major League team payroll-wise, then you f***ing do it. It's Johan Santana for Christ's sakes.

 

I'd but Terry Ryan up there I guess, but not Bill Smith as of yet. Ryan is another one of those guys that if he had a budget to work with, and if his owner wasn't a cheap piece of s***, then he could have done some wonderful things (for Twins fans) during that last run they had with Hunter, Santana, Radke, and the like. The problem I have with the Twins is how they can go into an offseason being 2-3 players away from WS contenders and then show up in ST the following year with the same basic team, except now they've got a couple more veterans off the scrap heap who aren't good enough to start and only block younger, better players. But, that wasn't Terry Ryan to me. That was ownership.

 

[caulfield12]

Top 10 List of Goofy Moves essentially forced by Cheap Carl Pohlad....

 

Mike Lamb

Craig Monroe

Adam Everett

Livan Hernandez

Bret Boone (looked worse than Roberto Remember the Alomar in his second tour of duty with the Sox...more like Steve Alto Sax or Cory Snyder)

Ruben High Sierra

Tony Batista

RonDL White

Phil Nevin

Jeff Cirillo (once a very good player, in a Kevin Seitzerish way)

 

In all fairness, L. Castillo wasn't a bad move by them...but they've wasted more money than the White Sox the last couple of season reaching for free agents and stopgaps while their legit prospects were in waiting.

 

Smith...I was commenting more on his scouting ability, but holding Liriano out for so long after the first month and giving Hernandez about 5 extra starts too many and Garza/Bartlett for D. Young/Harris was enough to make the difference in giving us the division.

 

He waited too long to fix the pen, fixated on former Twins' Hawkins and Guardado, and Steady Eddie was Steady trips to the Tums counter for Gardy and Circle Jerk Bert. Crain is/was a walking disaster, and Guerrier was out of his element as 8th inning set-up man.

 

Smith should also TIVO Gomez's game against the White Sox (the final of the four game set that most of cost some of us a couple of years on our lifespans, along with Harrelson's priceless hypemastering) and try to get the best possible package of prospects for him.

Edited November 16, 2008 by caulfield12

[elrockinMT]

Getting back to the heading of this POSt-Swisher. KW didn't waste any time so I hope what we got back for Swish is top calibre. A super sub infielder and prospects. No speed and I am not certain he is a good fielder eithet (Betamit)

[ILMOU]

"Evaluating GMs is really subjective. I strongly disagree with the idea that Kenny is a top three executive in baseball, let alone all of sports. I just don't see eye to eye with the guy. I vehemently disagree with many of his moves, probably due to his distaste for players that come through his own minor league system. I'd without question rather have all the following guys as a GM: Beane, Epstein, Cashman, Josh Byrnes, Andrew Friedman, Doug Melvin, Mark Shapiro, and Shuerholz." Original quote...

 

You're drinking some serious Kool-Aid thinking Shapiro is better. Andy Marte? Jason Johnson? Going into the season with Borowski as a closer? Josh Barfield? What have the Indians done, exactly, the last four years? Not much, considering their overall talent level. Sure, there's Sizemore and Lee, but that only gets you so far, and KW's deal for Colon was pretty sweet too? Or you like like Michaels/Dellucci so much in LF?

 

Cashman and Epstein can't be compared...it's like saying what could Phil Jackson do without Jordan or two superstars paired together? Not very much. What has Cashman done that's so great over the last five years besides loads of bloated pitching contracts and idiotic deals like Carl Pavano...Jose Contreras for a washed-up Loaiza and eating a big part of the future best pitcher in baseball's contract? Brilliant! Brian Cashman is one of the worst GM's in New York Yankee history. He rode Gene Michael's roster to three Championship rings. The major acquisition was Roger Clemens, who George Steinbrenner had wanted for years.

 

When Michaels' guys started fading, there was no one on the farm from Cashman's early drafts. He's butchered one free agent signing after another; spending tons of money on big names with ZERO chemistry. Cashman put the emphasis on power hitting; over pitching and defense and situational hitting. He was handed a successful blueprint by Gene Michael (who is a genius), and he put it in the shredder. As a matter of fact, it was the Red Sox who wanted to make Gene Michael their GM but was rebuffed by Steinbrenner. The Red Sox have been using the Gene Michael blueprint, and have two Championships to show for it. Ptiching, defense, OBP, situational hitting. The blueprint was copied by Theo Epstein. Give him credit for witnessing true genius, and duplicating it. Unfortunately, Cashman isn't that bright.

 

Brian Cashman has quite possibly THE WORST RECORD OF ALL-TIME in signing free agent pitchers. He passed on Johan, to protect his apparently over hyped prospects. I wanted to trade Robinson Cano, Melkey Cabrera and Ian Kennedy last off season for Johan Santana and Pat Neshek. Almost every Yankee fan was too afraid to deal Cano following a strong second half of 2007. I felt Cano was severly overrated. And it was overlooked that Cano never seems to put in a full season. Now this off season, rumors say the Yankees are considering dealing him to Joe Torre's Dodgers. We could have had Santana without giving up Phil Hughes.

 

Brian Cashman kept his job because his butt buddy is the younger, Hal Steinbrenner. Big mouth Hank may be an idiot, but at least he's right about Cashman, and was right about Johan. The Media keeps protecting Cashman (he must know somebody) because he protected the young prospects. But of all those prospects, only Joba Chamberlin looks legit. And Cashman, with his overrated Manager Joe Giardi, want to make him a reliever again. Idiotic. I hope Joba gets 'enough innings' to be a stud starter sometime before he retires. Phil Hughes is beginning to look like a 'David West' situation. Melky was nothing more than a fourth outfielder, if that. Cano showed that he's not the player that Cashman thought he was. Ian Kennedy is a disaster, and has Scott Boras as his agent. Why couldn't Cashman deal him?

 

I was happy to see Cashman acquire Marte and Nady last season. One of the few times he did something right. But today he acquires Nick Swisher. This guy is poor defensively at TWO positions. He's a young Jason Giambi, without the advantage of steroid enhanced play. Swisher hit .216 last year. Terrible fit, and I guarantee you that Cashman is planning on Swisher for centerfield.

 

Now that he's re-signed, we can only hope that George Steinbrenner rises from near death, and gives this guy the boot he deserves. HATE is not a strong enough word for how I feel about this pretender.

 

Epstein? Hardly. Comparing apples and oranges.

 

Beane? Overrated and overhyped. He's become successful at creating an illusion based on smoke and mirrors but has never won a thing. He has succeeded in dumping Hudson, Zito, Harden and Mulder before they were totally worthless...but the main reason for his success was the Big 3 pitchers, not drafting and not Moneyball. Nice move to let Dan Haren go, by the way. Blanton looked pretty good to me in the World Series. The one player he decides to hold onto, 3B Eric Chavez, is now basically without value.

 

Byrnes, Friedman (let's wait for some sustained success there, how many Top 10 picks can any professional franchise have without blindly stumbling into a diamond or two) and Melvin aren't consistently great...they've made mistakes, too.

 

Schuerholz...I won't argue with. But he's not a MLB GM anymore, and the Braves only won one World Series in 14 years.

 

If you want to argue the best, Terry Ryan/Smith are/were better, but KW is catching up.

 

Other than that, you can make plausible arguments that he's #3-5 in the majors now...Jocketty and Gillick are up there too, so no worse than 6-7-8.

 

You put KW in charge of the Yankees or Red Sox over the last decade, or the Dodgers/Mets, I guarantee he'd have multiple championships working without financial constraints.

 

The more you look at it, the more you have to appreciate KW's performance. He's definitely in the top tier in making positive moves for the MLB club. Of course, the farm system has been the major negative, and this year may be a good test of its improvement, or not.

 

 

[Disco72]

The more you look at it, the more you have to appreciate KW's performance. He's definitely in the top tier in making positive moves for the MLB club. Of course, the farm system has been the major negative, and this year may be a good test of its improvement, or not.

 

The above gets said alot, but that "bad" farm system has led to the acquisition of a lot of good players. Does it matter if the talent is home grown or acquired with home grown prospects?

[sircaffey]

The above gets said alot, but that "bad" farm system has led to the acquisition of a lot of good players. Does it matter if the talent is home grown or acquired with home grown prospects?

 

It does. The "bad" farm system is fine if you are continually producing talent to trade, but the draft has been a major weakness during KW tenure. Imagine where the Sox could be if they had in fact drafted well. Not so much in terms of home grown talent in the majors, but those extra bullets for KW to acquire who he really wants. KW is good, but there's room for improvement. He still hasn't produced a consistent winner. Until that happens, I'm not ready too put him in the top 3.

Edited November 16, 2008 by sircaffey

[Disco72]

It does. The "bad" farm system is fine if you are continually producing talent to trade, but the draft has been a major weakness during KW tenure. Imagine where the Sox could be if they had in fact drafted well. Not so much in terms of home grown talent in the majors, but those extra bullets for KW to acquire who he really wants. KW is good, but there's room for improvement. He still hasn't produced a consistent winner. Until that happens, I'm not ready too put him in the top 3.

 

What's your definition of a consistent winner? The sox have had very few bad teams in the last decade.

[sircaffey]

What's your definition of a consistent winner? The sox have had very few bad teams in the last decade.

 

Like I said, I think KW is good, but it's hard for me to call him a top 3 GM without back-to-back playoff appearances (2 of 8 seasons). That, and the problems with the draft/minor league development are tough to overlook.

[fathom]

Like I said, I think KW is good, but it's hard for me to call him a top 3 GM without back-to-back playoff appearances (2 of 8 seasons). That, and the problems with the draft/minor league development are tough to overlook.

 

Especially considering the payroll advantage we've had in our division for this decade.

[WilliamTell]

Baseball Reference's Stat of the Day featurs Nick Swisher in 2008. He has the 6th highest OPS in the last 20 years while batting under .200. Rob Deer is 1 and 2 on the list. The 2004 version of Jose Valentin ranks 8th.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/

Edited November 16, 2008 by WilliamTell

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I wouldn't put the situation of the farm system all on Kenny's shoulders for these reasons:

 

1. Kenny has a great eye for talent. He was the Sox director of minor league operations from 1995-1997 and then VP of player development from 1997-2000 before he became Sox GM. So yes, Kenny had a big hand in the Sox developing one of the best farm systems in baseball at that point. Kenny gets criticized for depleting it through trades and not rebuilding it, but there are some possible explanations for some of that as well.

 

2. Kenny cannot be in every place at every time. His duties concerning the Major League team which deal with trades, contracts, free agency, marketing, player evaluations, and whatever else he has to do take up his time. The guy has a job that is I'm sure much harder than some fans think. It's not like Kenny sits around with a video game controller trying about potential trades on X-Box or reading Baseball Prospectus. The guy has a lot of s*** going on and he can't be in the minor leagues watching all these guys.

 

3. Kenny did not agree with the old regime left over from Schueler. It all depends on whether you believe him or not, but Kenny said he let the minor league people make decisions for the most part until the '07 draft where he took over and selected Poreda. Poreda >>>>>> McCulloch and Broadway who were taken in the first round in the two years prior.

 

4. You have to trust people. Kenny trusted people and then got burned by Wilder and his asshole companions. When you have someone who you feel has a great eye for talent and is also one of your closest friends stab you in the back, it has to be hard. Thankfully Kenny now understands that Wilder is a cocksucker and now Kenny can move on with real baseball people in place instead of liars and thieves. The impact Wilder had on Latin American scouting will probably never get the attention it deserves, and none of us know just how serious that impact was. All I know is that the Sox went from finding guys like Maggs and Carlos Lee to signing Paulo Orlando and Juan Silverio. Talk about a drop-off.

 

5. There has to at some point be word coming down from the very top not to make a habit of going way over slot in the draft against the wishes of the commissioner's office. Other teams like the Red Sox, Angels, Yankees, and Tigers seem to get away with this but most teams steer clear. Given Kenny's eye for talent and willingness to use highly rated prospects as resources for the Major Leage team, I have no reason to suspect this is all Kenny's call. When you look at some of the farm systems out there, there is often a common theme: either they suck a lot and get high draft choices or they spend a s***load on the draft and through international free agency. Kenny's goal, and rightfully so, is to be like the Braves, who scout well and are active in Latin America but don't just hand out s***loads of money to whoever is supposed to be a good player.

 

I just have to say that I really love the job Kenny has done with this team over the last several years as he has grown into his role, and I feel strongly that the revamping of the farm system will make us an elite organization in the future. These last two drafts, but especially the last one, have me extremely hopeful. It's not because of the name players either, like Beckham, Danks, etc. but it's because of the finds. If you look down the list we've got some interesting guys already pulled out of the later rounds of the draft for the last couple of years. I really think that we'll end up having some very productive drafts; maybe we won't draft and develop a ton of our Major League players, but I think we'll add a lot more depth to the system and it will result in trades for better Major League talent.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Baseball Reference's Stat of the Day featurs Nick Swisher in 2008. He has the 6th highest OPS in the last 20 years while batting under .200. Rob Deer is 1 and 2 on the list. The 2004 version of Jose Valentin ranks 8th.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/

Off topic, but pretend the Sox had both Valentin and Swisher on the same team last year. Does Swisher's parasitic "influence" over hair and hair care products lead to a giant pink mustache on Jose?

Edited November 16, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[South Side Fireworks Man]

4. You have to trust people. Kenny trusted people and then got burned by Wilder and his asshole companions. When you have someone who you feel has a great eye for talent and is also one of your closest friends stab you in the back, it has to be hard. Thankfully Kenny now understands that Wilder is a cocksucker and now Kenny can move on with real baseball people in place instead of liars and thieves. The impact Wilder had on Latin American scouting will probably never get the attention it deserves, and none of us know just how serious that impact was. All I know is that the Sox went from finding guys like Maggs and Carlos Lee to signing Paulo Orlando and Juan Silverio. Talk about a drop-off.

Definitely. I hope Wilder and his cohorts rot in prison.

[G&T]

They [Mets] are continuing to try to address all of their shortcomings, and were one of five teams talking to the White Sox (Atlanta was another) about Nick Swisher before he was traded to the Yankees. Swisher could have played left field this season and potentially served as Carlos Delgado's successor at first in 2010. For 2009, however, the Mets continue to stress pitching, specifically finding a closer. To that end, they are monitoring the trade market, though nothing appealing has jumped out.

 

Fox Sports

[Soxfest]

Sox shed salary and get nothing in return.........Glad we traded Gio for nothing now!

[Wanne]

I wouldn't put the situation of the farm system all on Kenny's shoulders for these reasons:

 

1. Kenny has a great eye for talent. He was the Sox director of minor league operations from 1995-1997 and then VP of player development from 1997-2000 before he became Sox GM. So yes, Kenny had a big hand in the Sox developing one of the best farm systems in baseball at that point. Kenny gets criticized for depleting it through trades and not rebuilding it, but there are some possible explanations for some of that as well.

 

2. Kenny cannot be in every place at every time. His duties concerning the Major League team which deal with trades, contracts, free agency, marketing, player evaluations, and whatever else he has to do take up his time. The guy has a job that is I'm sure much harder than some fans think. It's not like Kenny sits around with a video game controller trying about potential trades on X-Box or reading Baseball Prospectus. The guy has a lot of s*** going on and he can't be in the minor leagues watching all these guys.

 

3. Kenny did not agree with the old regime left over from Schueler. It all depends on whether you believe him or not, but Kenny said he let the minor league people make decisions for the most part until the '07 draft where he took over and selected Poreda. Poreda >>>>>> McCulloch and Broadway who were taken in the first round in the two years prior.

 

4. You have to trust people. Kenny trusted people and then got burned by Wilder and his asshole companions. When you have someone who you feel has a great eye for talent and is also one of your closest friends stab you in the back, it has to be hard. Thankfully Kenny now understands that Wilder is a cocksucker and now Kenny can move on with real baseball people in place instead of liars and thieves. The impact Wilder had on Latin American scouting will probably never get the attention it deserves, and none of us know just how serious that impact was. All I know is that the Sox went from finding guys like Maggs and Carlos Lee to signing Paulo Orlando and Juan Silverio. Talk about a drop-off.

 

5. There has to at some point be word coming down from the very top not to make a habit of going way over slot in the draft against the wishes of the commissioner's office. Other teams like the Red Sox, Angels, Yankees, and Tigers seem to get away with this but most teams steer clear. Given Kenny's eye for talent and willingness to use highly rated prospects as resources for the Major Leage team, I have no reason to suspect this is all Kenny's call. When you look at some of the farm systems out there, there is often a common theme: either they suck a lot and get high draft choices or they spend a s***load on the draft and through international free agency. Kenny's goal, and rightfully so, is to be like the Braves, who scout well and are active in Latin America but don't just hand out s***loads of money to whoever is supposed to be a good player.

 

I just have to say that I really love the job Kenny has done with this team over the last several years as he has grown into his role, and I feel strongly that the revamping of the farm system will make us an elite organization in the future. These last two drafts, but especially the last one, have me extremely hopeful. It's not because of the name players either, like Beckham, Danks, etc. but it's because of the finds. If you look down the list we've got some interesting guys already pulled out of the later rounds of the draft for the last couple of years. I really think that we'll end up having some very productive drafts; maybe we won't draft and develop a ton of our Major League players, but I think we'll add a lot more depth to the system and it will result in trades for better Major League talent.

 

Great post Kenny!...

 

[caulfield12]

Sox shed salary and get nothing in return.........Glad we traded Gio for nothing now!

 

 

Just give KW time...it's only a day or two into the FA signing period, for heaven's sake.

 

Gio Gonzalez wasn't going to be a frontline starter for us, period, end of story.

 

As far as the Swisher trade goes, it just means there were four other teams that offered KW EVEN LESS for Swisher than what we wanted to receive in return. It also tells you a bit about how desperate Kenny was to dump him on another team.

 

Like the Pods/Vizcaino for C-Lee deal, let's wait and see the composition of the Opening Day roster before we jump to premature conclusions.

[sayitaintso]

Off topic, but pretend the Sox had both Valentin and Swisher on the same team last year. Does Swisher's parasitic "influence" over hair and hair care products lead to a giant pink mustache on Jose?

I believe that Jose definitely would have rocked a pink stache.

[Wanne]

I believe that Jose definitely would have rocked a pink stache.

 

sayitaintso...haven't had too many avatars that made me LOL...literally.

Wilford Brimley ROCKS!!!!!!

[witesoxfan]

As far as the Swisher trade goes, it just means there were four other teams that offered KW EVEN LESS for Swisher than what we wanted to receive in return. It also tells you a bit about how desperate Kenny was to dump him on another team..

 

It's not necessarily that they offered less but they offered packages that Kenny didn't like nearly as much. They could have offered very talented players who are in the lower minors, offered worse contracts with more talented players, or tried to get packages built up where the Sox would be including other players, but when push came to shove, this was the deal Kenny felt was best for the organization.

[Jeremy]

If by giving away you mean for one of the key components of the 2005 championship team, then yeah I agree.

 

Really? People think of Everett as a crucial part of that team? I forget he was even on it. I'd say there's no way he was one of the dozen most important players on the team. He was probably the worst regular on the team. That year was one of the highlights of my life but I sometimes resent the fact that every single player on the team is now beloved.

 

I disagree on another account too. My recollection is that Everett's value was quite low, the second time we acquired him. That's consistent with the fact that the Expos covered $800,000 of his salary in the deal. That suggests Kenny viewed Rauch as a throw-in and probably could've included any number of middling prospects in the deal. We traded Rauch just two months after he infamously left the clubhouse early after a bad start and Kenny flipped out so may take has always been that Kenny let his emotions get the best of him and was eager to sell low on Jon after that incident.

 

 

[bigruss]

Really? People think of Everett as a crucial part of that team? I forget he was even on it. I'd say there's no way he was one of the dozen most important players on the team. He was probably the worst regular on the team. That year was one of the highlights of my life but I sometimes resent the fact that every single player on the team is now beloved.

 

I disagree on another account too. My recollection is that Everett's value was quite low, the second time we acquired him. That's consistent with the fact that the Expos covered $800,000 of his salary in the deal. That suggests Kenny viewed Rauch as a throw-in and probably could've included any number of middling prospects in the deal. We traded Rauch just two months after he infamously left the clubhouse early after a bad start and Kenny flipped out so may take has always been that Kenny let his emotions get the best of him and was eager to sell low on Jon after that incident.

Any time a player walks out on a team, they are going to have problems with management/FO. KW was basically forced to deal him because of the situation that Rauch created. Its not like he was so talented that the Sox had to keep him to compete, no, he was a prospect that wasnt even bluechip. Rauch is the culprit here, not KW. If the player has the balls to take the whipping that the opposing team did to him,then theres no problem. Who wants a pitcher who leaves early from the game because he cant handle the loss or his failure. I like emotion, I think its integral for the game, but you have to keep it in check, and Rauch presented himself as a mental midget to the extreme.

 

In regards to Everett, he was very important to that team. That 2005 team was about contributions, big and small, from all 25 players. Just look at Timo, I remember one hit he had that was the weakest bloop I have ever seen to score the winning run in a regular season game. Or Blums magical homerun. These guys didnt contribute much during the regular season, but they gave us these small moments that really added up to the culmination of a championship season. To say that your starting DH didnt have an impact is nuts. Every player on that team was crucial, how can you say that another player wouldve hit Blum's homer, or Scotty Pods? Or Konerko's? Or Uribe's great defense? Every player contributed somehow to the final result of a championship.