Swish Traded to the Yankees

[YASNY]

Just for his leadership and his quotes from the World Series DVD post-game celebration alone...."SouthSide Baby!!!!!"

 

They really proved all the doubters and haters wrong who gave up on them, and Carl was a big part of holding the clubhouse together and providing needed intensity and sometimes insanity.

 

For all of the 2006 season, many posters pointed to him and Rowand as the reasons why the chemistry/composition of the team was so drastically different. If you missed his contributions, you just don't appreciate the game. All of the bench players, Blum, Harris, etc., played key roles during that World Series, and Ozzie's determination to give them all playing time down the stretch paid off big-time.

 

Ah yes. The infamous "Sunday lineups" that were so roundly criticized during the season.

[caulfield12]

Ah yes. The infamous "Sunday lineups" that were so roundly criticized during the season.

 

Widger, Timo, Gang 4...isn't that what Willie Harris came up with as the nickname for them?

 

I laugh whenever I see him cracking on Backe from the dugout in that World Series video..."Is he going to RISE UP???"

[knightni]

GROUP 4!

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005...&id=2202776

[caulfield12]

How quickly I am forgetting about Pablo Ozuna as well.

 

Poor Ross Gload, he would have been perfect, but he never found a place on that 05 team.

[NorthSideSox72]

How quickly I am forgetting about Pablo Ozuna as well.

 

Poor Ross Gload, he would have been perfect, but he never found a place on that 05 team.

Actually, the main reason Gload wasn't around in '05 was an injury.

 

[southsider2k5]

Actually, the main reason Gload wasn't around in '05 was an injury.

 

The shoulder injury made him all but worthless because he couldn't play any OF, and the Sox already had 1B and a guy who hit lefty as a DH.

[Steve9347]

I really really really really liked G-Load.

[greg775]

Gload was great, but probably proved with KC he's a career backup. No poor man's Mark Grace.

[NorthSideSox72]

I really really really really liked G-Load.

So did I. I think I had the crown for the biggest G-Load fan on this board, just as I now do for Ehren Wassermann.

 

Gload didn't get a chance to start until too late in his career to really make it work. I still think, if he hadn't been blocked for so long with so many organizations, that he could have been a Wally Joyner type player (but without the roids).

 

[witesoxfan]

So did I. I think I had the crown for the biggest G-Load fan on this board, just as I now do for Ehren Wassermann.

 

Gload didn't get a chance to start until too late in his career to really make it work. I still think, if he hadn't been blocked for so long with so many organizations, that he could have been a Wally Joyner type player (but without the roids).

 

didn't Wally Joyner do steroids like one time and then realized what he was doing and stopped?

[Jeremy]

Stop. You're embarassing yourself.

 

Yeah, not properly cherishing a mediocre performance. I'll resign my Sox fandom in shame pronto.

 

I'm 25, I've seen the White Sox win one World Series in my lifetime... and chances are I'll see that and maybe a few others... if I'm lucky a handful, if I'm really lucky, they'll win a ton.

 

I'll be damned if I won't worship every player on that team, the team that did something I wasn't sure I'd ever see. Something many folks on the North Side may never see. Carl Everett was a big piece of the best White Sox team probably in franchise history. I'll be damned if I'm going to ignore his contributions, or the contributions of a player such as Willie Harris, or Orlando Hernandez.

 

Guess what? El Duque had a 5.12 era in 2005, but I'll be damned if he didn't make 3 of the biggest outs that entire season. Should I not worship him, either?

 

Well, there's a difference between having fond memories of certain contributions and claiming a player was a fantastic performer when he wasn't. I'll let people choose their own emotions about the players on that team, that's not my place. Personally, I love that Geoff Blum hit that home run but in general I feel pretty indifferent about a career utility player who had about 100 plate appearances for my team and didn't perform spectacularly on the whole. But everyone looks for different things in their players. There's the objective and the subjective. The claim that Everett was a crux in that World Series when he probably wasn't one of the top 15 contributors fails on an objective level. If people want to adore him because he made some contributions during a great season that's perfectly fine with me.

[bigruss]

Yeah, not properly cherishing a mediocre performance. I'll resign my Sox fandom in shame pronto.

 

 

 

Well, there's a difference between having fond memories of certain contributions and claiming a player was a fantastic performer when he wasn't. I'll let people choose their own emotions about the players on that team, that's not my place. Personally, I love that Geoff Blum hit that home run but in general I feel pretty indifferent about a career utility player who had about 100 plate appearances for my team and didn't perform spectacularly on the whole. But everyone looks for different things in their players. There's the objective and the subjective. The claim that Everett was a crux in that World Series when he probably wasn't one of the top 15 contributors fails on an objective level. If people want to adore him because he made some contributions during a great season that's perfectly fine with me.

He was only the starting DH and what, #3/4 hitter?

[caulfield12]

He was only the starting DH and what, #3/4 hitter?

 

 

The argument is that he was the WORST of the starting line-up (how you can compare his numbers to Iguchi or Pods and state with equivocation Everett was "worse" or less important is beyond me, it's certainly not crystal-clear)....then you have the five starting pitchers, Jenks, Hermanson, etc.

 

It's a logical argument...but one that will never be settled, because that team was always more than the sum of its individual parts, which is ALWAYS the case with championship teams unless they're the Yankees or Red Sox that can just overwhelm with talent. However, the best Yankees teams weren't just big budget successes, they had their share of Scott Brosiuses, Miguel Cairos, Mike Stantons, Jeff Nelsons and Paul O'Neills who weren't stars, but they knew how to win. Everett's the same type of player. A winner. As much as I don't get out Viagra and genuflect at the Rowand shrine, he was also the kind of player whose intangibles were hard to measure in box scores, like Iguchi.

 

But I'll take the stance that each of these players have a special place in my heart...for SOMETHING that season...Timo's pinch-hitting to win a couple of games, Widger being part of the run in the line-up to rip homers off Randy Johnson, etc. Blum's liner off Wandy Rodriguez. Harris' single to get into scoring position for Dye, etc.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Yeah, not properly cherishing a mediocre performance. I'll resign my Sox fandom in shame pronto.

 

 

 

Well, there's a difference between having fond memories of certain contributions and claiming a player was a fantastic performer when he wasn't. I'll let people choose their own emotions about the players on that team, that's not my place. Personally, I love that Geoff Blum hit that home run but in general I feel pretty indifferent about a career utility player who had about 100 plate appearances for my team and didn't perform spectacularly on the whole. But everyone looks for different things in their players. There's the objective and the subjective. The claim that Everett was a crux in that World Series when he probably wasn't one of the top 15 contributors fails on an objective level. If people want to adore him because he made some contributions during a great season that's perfectly fine with me.

Nobody is saying Carl Everett and Geoff Blum are or were world-beaters. They're saying they love those guys because of what they did when it really counted. Keep in mind, this has all been in response to your absurd belief that Kenny Williams got hosed in acquiring Crazy Carl.

 

It's clear you enjoy statsheet baseball more than the real thing. Good for you. Most of us don't try to rip apart our World Series-winning heroes by taking the biggest accomplishments of their lives, ascribing a set of numbers to them, and then using those sets of numbers to devalue said players by comparing them with the best of their peers. While everyone else was screaming and shouting and celebrating and drinking beer, I'm sure you were sitting at a desk somewhere with your calculator adding up Win Shares, scratching your head wondering what the hell had just happened.

[NorthSideSox72]

didn't Wally Joyner do steroids like one time and then realized what he was doing and stopped?

Maybe, I honestly don't recall the details. Just that he supposedly admitted to doing it. I don't remember the rest.

 

[scenario]

But everyone looks for different things in their players. There's the objective and the subjective. The claim that Everett was a crux in that World Series when he probably wasn't one of the top 15 contributors fails on an objective level. If people want to adore him because he made some contributions during a great season that's perfectly fine with me.

 

 

Not one of the top 15 contributors eh?

 

He drove in 87 runs... which made him the #2 run producer on the club... ahead of Jermaine Dye. He was one of only three guys on the team with over 80 RBIs. He was 3rd on the team in home runs with 23.

 

So where's your objectivity?

 

Absolutely everything you've said about him so far has been subjective.

 

Please explain how the facts above fail on an objective level.

 

Edited November 20, 2008 by scenario

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

He was only the starting DH and what, #3/4 hitter?

His VORP wasn't high enough. It's important for us all to take a step back every once in a while to remind ourselves that Carl Everett was not one of the best DH's in baseball during the 2005 season. It's duly important that we remind ourselves that Willie Harris, Geoff Blum, Pablo Ozuna, and Luis Vizcaino are all now fringe players, and that Politte, Hermanson, and Cotts have never come close to replicating their career seasons. We must make sure we do not celebrate these players to the point where we forget to remind ourselves that 2005 was nothing more than a fluke.

[witesoxfan]

His VORP wasn't high enough. It's important for us all to take a step back every once in a while to remind ourselves that Carl Everett was not one of the best DH's in baseball during the 2005 season. It's duly important that we remind ourselves that Willie Harris, Geoff Blum, Pablo Ozuna, and Luis Vizcaino are all now fringe players, and that Politte, Hermanson, and Cotts have never come close to replicating their career seasons. We must make sure we do not celebrate these players to the point where we forget to remind ourselves that 2005 was nothing more than a fluke.

 

I do actually agree it was a fluke, and it was the greatest fluke I've ever seen and quite frankly participated in during my life.

[bigruss]

His VORP wasn't high enough. It's important for us all to take a step back every once in a while to remind ourselves that Carl Everett was not one of the best DH's in baseball during the 2005 season. It's duly important that we remind ourselves that Willie Harris, Geoff Blum, Pablo Ozuna, and Luis Vizcaino are all now fringe players, and that Politte, Hermanson, and Cotts have never come close to replicating their career seasons. We must make sure we do not celebrate these players to the point where we forget to remind ourselves that 2005 was nothing more than a fluke.

Never said he was a top DH, but he was our DH on a World f***ing Series f***ing Champion team. They made it happen, and for that I will always have a soft spot for those players and what they did for us that year.

I dont care if it was a fluke, looking back, there was a ton of career years like you said. Im just thankful that those guys came together and got the job done. Discrediting the accomplishments to me is foolish. Everett was not a bad player, not great, but not bad. He was an integral part of the team. Everyone that contributed to that team that year was integral, they all added to it somehow, some mroe than others, but that championship was a culmination of the success of every individual on that roster.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Never said he was a top DH, but he was our DH on a World f***ing Series f***ing Champion team. They made it happen, and for that I will always have a soft spot for those players and what they did for us that year.

I dont care if it was a fluke, looking back, there was a ton of career years like you said. Im just thankful that those guys came together and got the job done. Discrediting the accomplishments to me is foolish. Everett was not a bad player, not great, but not bad. He was an integral part of the team. Everyone that contributed to that team that year was integral, they all added to it somehow, some mroe than others, but that championship was a culmination of the success of every individual on that roster.

I was being sarcastic.

[bigruss]

I was being sarcastic.

More towards Jeremy than anything.

[103 mph screwball]

I was being sarcastic.

Thank goodness. I'm glad I didn't respond then. Faith in Kenny Hates Prospects has been restored!

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I do actually agree it was a fluke, and it was the greatest fluke I've ever seen and quite frankly participated in during my life.

Yep, and that seems to be how championships are won in this era of baseball. Because of free agency it is hard to put together a team full of All-Stars every year without spending like the Yankees, which still doesn't guarantee anything. You need to have a bunch of players come out of nowhere to have uncharacteristically great seasons. Look at the Phils. While they have some huge star power over there, they've counted on guys like Jason Werth and Greg Dobbs who were for the longest time seen as AAAA players, plus Jamie Moyer had an amazing year, and they got huge seasons out of JC Romero and Rudy Seanez. And if you look to their opponents in Tampa, those guys had break out seasons from Balfour and Howell who may never replicate their success, and the whole year the Rays never even had anything resembling a respectable DH. You need to have this stuff happen in order to win, so while you can say 2005 was a fluke for the Sox, it's pretty much always a fluke for whoever wins it. Look at the crap the Cardinals won with in 2006.

[almagest]

Everett posted an OPS+ of 92 in 2005 -- same as Nick Swisher last year. So if we replace '05 Everett with '08 Swisher, we lose nothing. Everett also managed to hit .300 (all singles!) with 1 walk, and 3 RBI in 40 postseason at-bats in 2005. Fantastic.

 

You all can have your fond memories of Everett and his majestic 2005 season. I'll live in reality and continue to think he was mediocre, and thank Kenny for getting Thome instead.

 

P.S. We won in 2005 because of pitching.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

More towards Jeremy than anything.

I see.

 

Thank goodness. I'm glad I didn't respond then. Faith in Kenny Hates Prospects has been restored!

Thanks. I made a post that gave away my sarcasm earlier, but it was on the last page so maybe it was kind of hidden. But yeah, it's dumb to say "oh, Player A didn't compare with David Ortiz in Bill James' FUKWADD stat so that means he sucks and shouldn't be given credit for '05." Of course I'm exaggerating, but not by much.