Why even shop the best player since 2005

[wilmot825]

Does this make any sense what so ever? I still am scratching my head to why Kenny is even entertaining the thought of sending the "Man-Child" elsewhere. Jenks has been the most consistent and most solid player on the White Sox since he came up in 2005. You can always count on Bobby to knock it down in the 9th and get 35 saves a season. Remember when we traded a top closer in his prime, Keith Foulke. We get Billy Koch who BOMBED, and Foulke had solid seasons with Oakland and Boston before his decline. I don't see trading Bobby Jenks making anymore sense, they should have kept Swish and tried to unload Konerko to LAA and let the Yanks get Tex.

[T R U]

The Sox have had good closers before Bobby Jenks and they'll have good closers after him too

 

If someone is going to give up a lot for Jenks you DO it

[rangercal]

Does this make any sense what so ever? I still am scratching my head to why Kenny is even entertaining the thought of sending the "Man-Child" elsewhere. Jenks has been the most consistent and most solid player on the White Sox since he came up in 2005. You can always count on Bobby to knock it down in the 9th and get 35 saves a season. Remember when we traded a top closer in his prime, Keith Foulke. We get Billy Koch who BOMBED, and Foulke had solid seasons with Oakland and Boston before his decline. I don't see trading Bobby Jenks making anymore sense, they should have kept Swish and tried to unload Konerko to LAA and let the Yanks get Tex.

 

I still think we should deal Jenks now, only if we can sell high. If it is similar to the swisher deal, then forget it.

 

My reasons are simple

 

1. Injury history

2. The average career for a closer as a closer is usually less than 5 seasons.

3. Imo, closers are overrated in the sense that they are not as valuable as an every day position player or starting pitcher. It is easier to come across a stud closer than a stud SP or catcher , for instance.

[rangercal]

The Sox have had good closers before Bobby Jenks and they'll have good closers after him too

 

If someone is going to give up a lot for Jenks you DO it

 

Exactly

[witesoxfan]

Thome and Dye have also been better than Jenks since 2005.

 

Thome's put up an OPS near .950 in a Sox uniform and has hit 111 homers in 3 years.

Dye's put up an OPS near .885 in 4 years and has hit 137 homers.

 

I'd find it hard for a guy who throws 60-80 innings a year to be more valuable than that, especially considering how mediocre he was in 2006.

[Milkman delivers]

Thome and Dye have also been better than Jenks since 2005.

 

Thome's put up an OPS near .950 in a Sox uniform and has hit 111 homers in 3 years.

Dye's put up an OPS near .885 in 4 years and has hit 137 homers.

 

I'd find it hard for a guy who throws 60-80 innings a year to be more valuable than that, especially considering how mediocre he was in 2006.

 

Ah, but he didn't exactly say that. Sorry, I just wanted to see what if felt like to play devil's advocate. Texsox has been hogging that recently .

[witesoxfan]

Ah, but he didn't exactly say that. Sorry, I just wanted to see what if felt like to play devil's advocate. Texsox has been hogging that recently .

 

LOL

 

K...Jenks hasn't been the best nor most valuable player on the White Sox roster since 2005.

[Kalapse]

Thome and Dye have also been better than Jenks since 2005.

 

Thome's put up an OPS near .950 in a Sox uniform and has hit 111 homers in 3 years.

Dye's put up an OPS near .885 in 4 years and has hit 137 homers.

 

I'd find it hard for a guy who throws 60-80 innings a year to be more valuable than that, especially considering how mediocre he was in 2006.

He's never topped 70 innings in a season so 60-70 is much more accurate. So he appears in maybe 40% of the team's games and accounts for 4% or 5% of the team's innings pitched for a given season.

[Kalapse]

Does this make any sense what so ever? I still am scratching my head to why Kenny is even entertaining the thought of sending the "Man-Child" elsewhere. Jenks has been the most consistent and most solid player on the White Sox since he came up in 2005. You can always count on Bobby to knock it down in the 9th and get 35 saves a season. Remember when we traded a top closer in his prime, Keith Foulke. We get Billy Koch who BOMBED, and Foulke had solid seasons with Oakland and Boston before his decline. I don't see trading Bobby Jenks making anymore sense, they should have kept Swish and tried to unload Konerko to LAA and let the Yanks get Tex.

How does Foulke lasting only 2 years post Sox before breaking down and becomes completely ineffective help your argument at all? If anything it's a good case for trading Bobby now before he breaks down like soooo many closers have in the past. Maybe this time KW shouldn't trade his closer for another young closer with a s*** load of tread on his arm and some weird skin disease though we did also receive Neal Cotts in that deal who turned out to be much more valuable to the Sox in their Championship season than a 32 year old, horrible, $7.5M Keith Foulke would have been. So in hindsight you could make the case that the Foulke trade was a positive one.

 

Oh and bringing up Billy Koch - a young power closer who broke down in his 20's - doesn't help your case one bit either.

[caulfield12]

We've gone through Thigpen, Roberto Hernandez, Howry, Foulke, Koch, Takatsu, Hermanson and Jenks without ever having to spend boatloads of money on any of these guys, all who were decent or at least adequate for most of their Sox careers.

 

Unfortunately, another team's going to have to be desperate to give us a Fernando Martinez caliber of player because all of baseball knows the warning signs.

 

1) Decreased fastball (although he was close to 2005 form in the late stages of season and playoff run)

2) Past injury history

3) Weight issues

4) Other past mental/psychological history (although that appears to be a complete non-issue any longer)

5) Declining strikeout ratio per IP over last three seasons

6) Shelf life of the average MLB closer

 

Torres retiring helps...and Hoffman, hopefully. That decreases the available pool of talent and drives up the worth/value of Bobby.

 

 

[bighurt4life]

I am all for trading Bobby if we can get top quality return for him. Saves are one of the most overrated stats in baseball and closers i think are the most overrated positions in baseball. I read an article recently that analyzed pre and post closer era game results and it showed that teams going into the 9th with a 2 or 3 run lead won the game about 95% of the time, this was in the 40's 50's 60's etc... before teams used a specialized closer, and the numbers for 70's 80's 90's were almost identical. this tells me that the use of the closer hasn't really altered the typical outcome of games. Honestly, is it really a big deal when a guy comes into the ninth inning with a three run lead and doesn't let the other team win? I think that's something that just about any guy in an average bullpen could do on a pretty regular basis. If you can't get three outs before giving up three runs more often that not then you don't belong in a major league bullpen. jmo

[southsider2k5]

Ah, but he didn't exactly say that. Sorry, I just wanted to see what if felt like to play devil's advocate. Texsox has been hogging that recently .

 

recently? Try for about 6 years now!

[Milkman delivers]

recently? Try for about 6 years now!

 

I was trying to be subtle.

[TCQ]

This is something where you cant let your emotions get the best of you. The save is the most overrated statistic in baseball and the fact that he does only pitch in 60-70 innings which someone already stated proves the point. I would say someone like linebrink earlier in the season or thornton were more important t his year as they often came into tie games or when we were up or down one and had to hold a lead or perserve a small deficit. Bobby did pitch in one run games but also quite a few 2 and 3 run games. Also Bobby wasnt very good in non save situations. This being said along with declining k rates and the dip in velocity i think it would be a great steal if kw were to get a couple of stud prospects or a package built around a stud like that martinez center fielder the mets have waiting in the wings. This is a business you cant get sentimental, i love bobby just as much as the next guy but this makes too much sense if the right deal were to present itself.

[harfman77]

Closers have significant trade value in the market and if he can net someplayers back that give the Sox a better chance to win next year and down the road then you have to make the deal. There are several other options to close currently in the organization.

 

The Mets indicate the asking price for Jenks is very high, and it should be, so I think KW will make sure he gets the good end of any deal that sends Jenks out of town.

 

I think the Braves are probably the best possible destination for Jenks as they have a glut of CF prospects with Blanco, Hernandez, and Schafer, could include someone like Jurrjens, Locke, or Rohrbough and Flowers who could be AJ's backup next season.

[Steve9347]

I think Bobby SHOULD be traded this offseason. It'd be the smartest thing Kenny Williams could do.

[Texsox]

Keep your crap and sell your treasures! And dream, dream of the days when your crap starts winning and you can dump them at their peak

[harfman77]

Keep your crap and sell your treasures! And dream, dream of the days when your crap starts winning and you can dump them at their peak

 

Closers contribute very little to the overall success of a team, and are useless if you are not leading at the end of the games, so trade your "treasure" from someone elses that can help your team win on a more consistent basis. Obviously you arent going to give him away but if you can get a quality everyday player and potentially shore up your rotation you may need to use your biggest trade chips.

[Dick Allen]

The entire premise for trading Jenks is the White Sox would be anticipating a decline in his performance while his paycheck will be significantly higher. If they can get a haul, and from what I read, they won't get it from the Mets, and think his performance is about to decline, they would probably trade him. I'm not for looking to trade guys at "peak value" if they still are giving you "peak performances". If you go by stats, you probably don't think about trading Freddy Garcia after 2006. 218 IP 17-9 4.54 ERA, owed $10 million for 2007. Much better numbers than Vazquez, and people think the $23 million and 2 years left on his deal are a bargain. Sometimes anticipating some rough times for players while they still have a lot of value leads to deals.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Kalapse]

Keep your crap and sell your treasures! And dream, dream of the days when your crap starts winning and you can dump them at their peak

Personally, I'm dreaming of the day you contribute anything to a baseball discussion aside from this same tired stance that you rarely, if ever backup. There's at least 10 solid points on the subject, you could choose to counter any of them but no we get the same ambiguous response apparently aimed at no one in particular. Debate a point, it could be fun.

 

I'll start. I have good reason to believe that this particular "treasure" that participates in 4% of the team's overall innings will more than likely turn to "crap" within the next few years. There's also reason to believe that another team, desperate for a closer could be willing to trade us some of their "treasure" for our "treasure" that may soon turn to expensive, overweight "crap". Ok, your turn.

[Kyyle23]

ONHD'nt

Edited November 18, 2008 by kyyle23

[southsideirish71]

As I have said before, I am one of Bobby's biggest supporters on the site. If you can get FMart from the mets for him, I would drive him to the airport. At some point, its about making the Whitesox better. I am a whitesox fan first, then a fan of the players. We see players come and go. And thats sad at times. But in the end, if it moves us forward and moves us towards a championship then no one is sacred. I believe in a solid closer, but if you can get a superstar for your closer you move on that.

 

 

 

 

[rangercal]

Personally, I'm dreaming of the day you contribute anything to a baseball discussion aside from this same tired stance that you rarely, if ever backup. There's at least 10 solid points on the subject, you could choose to counter any of them but no we get the same ambiguous response apparently aimed at no one in particular. Debate a point, it could be fun.

 

I'll start. I have good reason to believe that this particular "treasure" that participates in 4% of the team's overall innings will more than likely turn to "crap" within the next few years. There's also reason to believe that another team, desperate for a closer could be willing to trade us some of their "treasure" for our "treasure" that may soon turn to expensive, overweight "crap". Ok, your turn.

 

[caulfield12]

 

 

I prefer the new Indian actress/model in "Slumdog Millionaire" with my popcorn. She's the hottest thing since, well, the Ecuadorian or Peruvian javelin thrower whose image was cavorting around here in recent days as a signature.