What do these stats tell you

[Texsox]

Who says that even remotely applies to you?

 

The dozens and dozens of posts that have inferred this since Obama announced he was running.

[NorthSideSox72]

The dozens and dozens of posts that have inferred this since Obama announced he was running.

I haven't seen one single post inferring that any vote for McCain is because that voter is racist. Not one. Show me.

 

[lostfan]

The dozens and dozens of posts that have inferred this since Obama announced he was running.

The posts aren't about you, they're pretty obviously about other people (and nobody even says it in that many words, either). I think it requires a massive leap of logic to assume that people, who otherwise know you relatively well, are calling you a racist.

Edited November 18, 2008 by lostfan

[Texsox]

I haven't seen one single post inferring that any vote for McCain is because that voter is racist. Not one. Show me.

 

Seriously, have you been reading for the past year?

[EvilMonkey]

It's a small sample size, and quite honestly, I don't really care that they did, because at least they were in the process.

If they were 'in the process' and didn't take enough time to know anyting else other than their canididate was the 'black' one or the 'white' one, then they should have just stayed home. That type of voting is a slap in the face to all the servicemen and women who gave their lives to safeguard their right to vote. Trivializing it by basing your decisions solely on color, whoever it was, is just wrong.

[Texsox]

The posts aren't about you, they're pretty obviously about other people (and nobody even says it in that many words, either). I think it requires a massive leap of logic to assume that people, who otherwise know you relatively well, are calling you a racist.

 

It's always "other people" but I am trying to put a face on other people. I'm a white male who switched from Kerry to McCain. Sounds like the group they are talking about.

[lostfan]

I heard on the news story after story after story about people who haven't voted for 20, 30, 40 years only to vote in this election for solely one purpose. Because Mr. Obama was black.

 

It's a small sample size, and quite honestly, I don't really care that they did, because at least they were in the process. Having said that, it's a damn good question. What did Kerry pull both in pure number of votes, and as a percentage? Both numbers mean something this time around.

 

It's an interesting question, but it's sure as hell isn't one to get worked up over. The facts are, Obama's the president. I think a VERY small part of it is due to race, but 97% is because of the political climate we're in. It's just a question.

I find it hard not to get worked up over actually even though I know it doesn't even apply to me (I know I'm kind of jumping on Tex for doing that a bit). You know how I interpret it, and why I get all pissed off, to be honest? It sounds like "blacks don't know anything about politics, they just voted for him because he's black." I know there are some dumbasses who did that, and that's whatever, but virtually all of the "he's black" stuff comes from pride in actually seeing a black man get elected - I honestly can't think of a single black person I know that voted for him based on skin color, especially considering if the 2008 Democratic nominee was another white man, they'd have voted for him just the same, percentage-wise.

[lostfan]

It's always "other people" but I am trying to put a face on other people. I'm a white male who switched from Kerry to McCain. Sounds like the group they are talking about.

Maybe, if you oversimplify. But you pretty clearly had non-superficial reasons to do that, you've even laid them out in this forum multiple times. People do this every election cycle, finding a candidate from the party they don't usually vote for more appealing one year.

 

In this case, it just so happens that one of the candidates was black, and the majority of vote-flippers are concentrated in one geographic region where the historical connotations are pretty obvious.

[Texsox]

where the historical connotations are pretty obvious.

 

Some don't believe there has been any connotations. But setting that aside. If I was living in one of those states I would be painted with that same brush and that just isn't fair.

[NorthSideSox72]

Seriously, have you been reading for the past year?

Yup, and I have seen no such posts.

 

I have seen a LOT of posts talking about the fact that some people were going to vote for Obama because he's black, and some others would vote for McCain because he's not. But I have seen no one make the absurd statement in here that a vote for McCain is automatically racist.

 

[lostfan]

Some don't believe there has been any connotations.

I would kindly ask them to do one of 2 things in that case

 

1. explain what they mean by that

 

or

 

2. promptly refund all of the tax dollars spent on their obviously failed education.

[lostfan]

Some don't believe there has been any connotations. But setting that aside. If I was living in one of those states I would be painted with that same brush and that just isn't fair.

It happens. This is a country of 300 million people.

[Texsox]

Yup, and I have seen no such posts.

 

I have seen a LOT of posts talking about the fact that some people were going to vote for Obama because he's black, and some others would vote for McCain because he's not. But I have seen no one make the absurd statement in here that a vote for McCain is automatically racist.

 

 

I would kindly ask them to do one of 2 things in that case

 

1. explain what they mean by that

 

or

 

2. promptly refund all of the tax dollars spent on their obviously failed education.

[lostfan]

lol, WTF does that post have to do with "a vote for McCain is a vote for racism?" Christ.

[Texsox]

lol, WTF does that post have to do with "a vote for McCain is a vote for racism?" Christ.

 

We pause for a recap:

 

I said that white voters who switch from the Dems to the GOP in this election have been, at times, accused of being racist.

 

NSS said that has not been the case and find one post.

You said the connotation is obvious.

 

Well if the connotation is obvious, doesn't that mean that the connotation is that some white voters have switched based on race?

And if NSS is correct, and racist has never been mentioned, what is the connotation?

[lostfan]

I said the historical connotation is obvious. Historical, meaning slavery, Jim Crow, white supremacist movements, racial violence, etc. many things that I thought didn't need to be mentioned which is why I chose the word "obvious" and then made a comment about refunding tax dollars because their education system failed them if they didn't know those things. The legacy of those things still lives, I'd assumed that's virtually common knowledge, so I didn't even mention it.

 

If I'm coming off like an asshole I apologize.

[Jenksismyhero]

I find it hard not to get worked up over actually even though I know it doesn't even apply to me (I know I'm kind of jumping on Tex for doing that a bit). You know how I interpret it, and why I get all pissed off, to be honest? It sounds like "blacks don't know anything about politics, they just voted for him because he's black." I know there are some dumbasses who did that, and that's whatever, but virtually all of the "he's black" stuff comes from pride in actually seeing a black man get elected - I honestly can't think of a single black person I know that voted for him based on skin color, especially considering if the 2008 Democratic nominee was another white man, they'd have voted for him just the same, percentage-wise.

 

 

Not to interrupt the solo debat that's going on but...

 

I guess my point was that if you were to ask me why I voted for McCain and I listed off 3-4 things I liked, and then added "and also because he's white, and I feel he has my interests in mind and would do more for me," I'd be labeled as a racist or someone stuck in the 50's way of thinking. If a black person says the same thing, even if race was one of many factors, it would be fine, because it's expected and understood.

 

And maybe racist is a strong word, but certainly I'd be looked down upon for using his whiteness as a factor in voting for him.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

We pause for a recap:

 

I said that white voters who switch from the Dems to the GOP in this election have been, at times, accused of being racist.

 

NSS said that has not been the case and find one post.

You said the connotation is obvious.

 

Well if the connotation is obvious, doesn't that mean that the connotation is that some white voters have switched based on race?

And if NSS is correct, and racist has never been mentioned, what is the connotation?

You might get less upset if you read my full posts. I specifically said that racism HAS been mentioned. What I have NOT seen anyone say is that voting for McCain means you are racist. Those are two very different things.

 

[Texsox]

I said the historical connotation is obvious. Historical, meaning slavery, Jim Crow, white supremacist movements, racial violence, etc. many things that I thought didn't need to be mentioned which is why I chose the word "obvious" and then made a comment about refunding tax dollars because their education system failed them if they didn't know those things. The legacy of those things still lives, I'd assumed that's virtually common knowledge, so I didn't even mention it.

 

If I'm coming off like an asshole I apologize.

 

I do not think you are coming off as an asshole.

 

So historically, the south has been in favor of those laws. And in this elected, support dropped from Kerry to Obama. The connotation, as I am understanding it, is white voters, in areas that historically have not been stellar examples of racial tolerance, voted along racial lines for McCain. Therefor drawing a subtle and not so subtle accusation of racism.

[Texsox]

You might get less upset if you read my full posts. I specifically said that racism HAS been mentioned. What I have NOT seen anyone say is that voting for McCain means you are racist. Those are two very different things.

 

I do not see them as two very different things. And how can there be anything, especially racism in a race but not in the voting?

[NorthSideSox72]

I do not think you are coming off as an asshole.

 

So historically, the south has been in favor of those laws. And in this elected, support dropped from Kerry to Obama. The connotation, as I am understanding it, is white voters, in areas that historically have not been stellar examples of racial tolerance, voted along racial lines for McCain. Therefor drawing a subtle and not so subtle accusation of racism.

Those areas - the MidSouth (Oklahoma east to the southern terminus of the Appalachians) and Appalachia north to WV - will probably have more people who are racist than other areas of the country. That is the connotation. And its probably true, on a net basis.

 

That is NOT the same as saying that anyone voting for McCain who voted for Kerry is racist. They are starkly different statements. No one is saying that you must be racist, nor is anyone saying that McCain voters are racist, nor are they saying that people in those parts of the country are all racists.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I do not see them as two very different things. And how can there be anything, especially racism in a race but not in the voting?

Tex - you don't see the difference? You just got through saying you feel you are a victim of painting with a broad brush. I was saying, one of those things is specific to persons, and the other was painting with a broad brush. The difference you say you don't see, is the difference you were trying to make yourself.

 

I am done chasing you in circles. I'm dizzy and tired now.

 

[bmags]

The appalachian area is the most racist area of the country. That is my statement.

[lostfan]

Not to interrupt the solo debat that's going on but...

 

I guess my point was that if you were to ask me why I voted for McCain and I listed off 3-4 things I liked, and then added "and also because he's white, and I feel he has my interests in mind and would do more for me," I'd be labeled as a racist or someone stuck in the 50's way of thinking. If a black person says the same thing, even if race was one of many factors, it would be fine, because it's expected and understood.

 

And maybe racist is a strong word, but certainly I'd be looked down upon for using his whiteness as a factor in voting for him.

# of white presidents: 43

# of black presidents: 1

# of "other" presidents: 0

 

The situations really aren't that comparable, first of all, it's kind of a false/strawman argument to begin with unless one is to believe that race was high up on the list of a majority of black people that voted for him. It's really as simple as people (not just black people really) being proud to see America taking a major step forward socially that was long overdue.

[kapkomet]

I find it hard not to get worked up over actually even though I know it doesn't even apply to me (I know I'm kind of jumping on Tex for doing that a bit). You know how I interpret it, and why I get all pissed off, to be honest? It sounds like "blacks don't know anything about politics, they just voted for him because he's black." I know there are some dumbasses who did that, and that's whatever, but virtually all of the "he's black" stuff comes from pride in actually seeing a black man get elected - I honestly can't think of a single black person I know that voted for him based on skin color, especially considering if the 2008 Democratic nominee was another white man, they'd have voted for him just the same, percentage-wise.

Percentage wise, you're absolutely right, which is why I wanted to know the pure numbers as well.