CQ takes 5th in MVP voting

[soxfan3530]

CQ would have won this award if he didnt get hurt. Let's see him take in next year!

 

Pedroia is a mighty mite of an MVP

 

By Gordon Edes, Yahoo! Sports

 

Yahoo! Sports

 

One of the first text messages Red Sox second baseman Dustin Pedroia received after getting the official call Tuesday afternoon came from Boston Red Sox teammate David Ortiz.

 

“Congratulations, badass,” Big Papi wrote.

 

Short, balding and badass. That’s the look of the American League’s Most Valuable Player in 2008, and while that may not be pretty, it captures the essence of the first AL second baseman in 49 years to win the award.

 

“The last couple of days have been crazy,” Pedroia said from his home in Chandler, Ariz, where he chose to wait with his wife, Kelli, until the call came from Jack O’Connell, secretary-treasurer of the Baseball Writers Association of America, that he had finished well ahead of Minnesota first baseman Justin Morneau and Red Sox teammate Kevin Youkilis in the MVP balloting.

 

 

“You know how it is,” Pedroia said. “I’d heard names of four or five guys, and I didn’t know what to think. This is just my second full season, so I’m extremely excited and happy to represent the Red Sox. Who would have ever thought this would happen?

 

“I put up some numbers, yeah, but I’m more about doing the stuff that helps this team win.”

 

Pedroia finished first on 16 of the 28 ballots cast by BBWAA members, two in each city. He was named second on six ballots, third on three, and fourth on one. He totaled 317 points on a system that awards 10 points for first, nine for second, eight for third, down to one for a 10th place vote.

 

Morneau had seven first-place votes. The other first-place votes were split among Youkilis (2), Twins catcher Joe Mauer (2), and Angels closer Francisco Rodriguez (1). Mauer finished fourth in the balloting, Rodriguez sixth.

 

Pedroia is the first second baseman since Nellie Fox of the go-go Chicago White Sox in 1959 to win the award, and just the third player to win the MVP award a year after being named Rookie of the Year. Ryan Howard of the Phillies and Cal Ripken Jr. of the Orioles are the others. Fred Lynn of the Red Sox (1975) and Ichiro Suzuki of the Mariners (2001) won both awards in the same year.

 

Pedroia was a worthy choice in a field that lost its front-runner when White Sox outfielder Carlos Quentin, who was leading the AL in home runs at the time, missed the month of September after breaking his hand in a freak accident. Quentin, who finished second in home runs to Detroit’s Miguel Cabrera (37 to 36) and also was second in the league in slugging percentage (.571) and fourth in on-base percentage (.394), finished fifth in the voting.

 

Rounding out the top 10 after Rodriguez was Texas Rangers outfielder Josh Hamilton, New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, Tampa Bay Rays first baseman Carlos Pena and Cleveland Indians outfielder Grady Sizemore.

 

Second basemen have gotten little respect on MVP ballots in the American League. No second baseman has finished in the top three in voting since Alfonso Soriano, then of the Yankees, in 2002, and Bret Boone of the Mariners the year before. Roberto Alomar, a 12-time All-Star and a certain Hall of Famer, finished as high as third place just once in his career.

 

But Pedroia made a strong case by becoming just the fifth second baseman since 1937 to have a season with 200 or more hits, 100 or more runs scored, 80 or more RBIs, and 40 or more doubles.

 

He started 155 games, had just one month all season in which he hit below .300, hit .307 with runners in scoring position, and had a .298 average with two strikes. He also stole 20 bases in 21 attempts, and and struck out just 52 times in 653 at-bats.

 

When the Red Sox didn’t have a cleanup hitter in August after Mike Lowell was hurt and Manny Ramirez was traded, Pedroia stepped in for four games and belted 12 hits in 18 at-bats.

 

“Pedroia said it’s long overdue,” Boston manager Terry Francona said of his new No. 4 hitter, “and Ortiz said he’s retiring.”

 

When Pedroia played in his first All-Star Game last July in Yankee Stadium, he noticed that Francona had dropped him from his customary No. 2 spot in the batting order to ninth. Batting second was the hometown favorite, Yankee captain Derek Jeter.

 

Pedroia stuck his head in Francona’s office. “Hey,” he cracked, “I thought we were trying to win this game.”

 

That kind of brash confidence has been a critical component of Pedroia’s game, enabling him to win over detractors who questioned his size (he’s listed at 5-9 and 180 pounds) and his big swing. White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen jokingly likened him to a jockey but said that he wished that the Sox had gotten rid of Pedroia instead of Mannny Ramirez.

 

“How do you not love him,” one scout said Tuesday. “He brings energy to the table, he plays with passion. Every manager in the American League will tell you they’d love to have him. He plays like a giant.”

Edited November 18, 2008 by soxfan3530

[Hawkfan]

I love dustin

[Balta1701]

He could have hit .200 for the last month and if he'd been playing he'd have won.

[caulfield12]

It was an interesting race....Hamilton was the favorite for about 3-4 months, then Quentin, then it was very close between Morneau and Pedroia. If the Twins would have beaten out the Sox and he wouldn't have faded so badly down the stretch, I think Morneau would have had his second MVP. Which is kind of sad, because he's in no way, shape or form the incredibly dominant offensive presence that Frank Thomas (2 MVP's also) was...although you almost have to say that 2000 was Frank's third with Giambi's steroid revelations. That's how I think of it. And those MVP's for Juan Gonzalez can disappear, too.

[Princess Dye]

So crazy that we even had an MVP candidate this year, considering what my expectations were going in. It's still great to think about. Way better being a team ABOUT to be good, as opposed to being solely of dinosaurs.

[Felix]

Justin Morneau is the most overrated player in baseball. Period.

 

Congrats to CQ, hopefully he tops it next year.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Felix

[witesoxfan]

Justin Morneau is the most overrated player in baseball. Period.

 

Congrats to CQ, hopefully he tops it next year.

 

All he did for the Twins lately was put up a sub-.700 OPS in September when they needed him the most.

 

It would have been disgusting if he had won it again, and he might have been the least deserving candidate in the past 10+ years of the award.

[caulfield12]

All he did for the Twins lately was put up a sub-.700 OPS in September when they needed him the most.

 

It would have been disgusting if he had won it again, and he might have been the least deserving candidate in the past 10+ years of the award.

 

Not counting Giambi, of course.

 

I think many will quickly forget Miguel Tejada and Mo Vaughn as well.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Not counting Giambi, of course.

 

I think many will quickly forget Miguel Tejada and Mo Vaughn as well.

 

Giambi I don't mind as much because, even if was a steroid user, steroid use was rampant. It's not justification, but he had an absolutely monster season.

 

Tejada and Vaughn were worse, but Tejada atleast fits the "what have you done for me lately" slogan. He was monumental in their 20 game winning streak and was a stud in the second half. Morneau's second half stats would have made him a #6 hitter on most teams.

 

Vaughn people haven't quickly forgotten about because it happened 13 years ago. I was 8.

[Lemon_44]

Justin Morneau is the most overrated player in baseball. Period.

 

I agree. I wouldn't even have considered him. Maybe the writers put alot of stock in the HR hitting contest.

[Dick Allen]

Justin Morneau is the most overrated player in baseball. Period.

 

Congrats to CQ, hopefully he tops it next year.

I'll take overrated .300 hitters with power who drive in 130 runs any day of the week. If Swisher put up the exact same numbers many on this board would be on suicide watch if he wasn't the unanimous MVP pick.

[Steve9347]

You guys are alcoholics. No one's overrating Morneau here... THIS year he was a better MVP choice than the anointed MVP. It's plain and simple.

[Felix]

I'll take overrated .300 hitters with power who drive in 130 runs any day of the week. If Swisher put up the exact same numbers many on this board would be on suicide watch if he wasn't the unanimous MVP pick.

He led the majors in at bats with runners on.. there is no reason he shouldn't have gotten as many RBI as he did.

 

Fact of the matter is that he choked down the stretch when his team needed him the most. Whether you look at it from a statistical viewpoint (12th in the AL in VORP, 15th in OPS) or from the opinion that the MVP should have been the most valuable to his team (again, not Morneau given his choke job down the stretch), Morneau simple wasn't the caliber of player that an MVP should be. Simply put, if you aren't the best (or most valuable) player on your own team, there is absolutely no way you should be considered for MVP of the league.

[longshot7]

Pedroia wasn't even the MVP on his own team - Youkilis was.

 

TCQ got screwed - he still had better numbers.

[Dick Allen]

He led the majors in at bats with runners on.. there is no reason he shouldn't have gotten as many RBI as he did.

 

Fact of the matter is that he choked down the stretch when his team needed him the most. Whether you look at it from a statistical viewpoint (12th in the AL in VORP, 15th in OPS) or from the opinion that the MVP should have been the most valuable to his team (again, not Morneau given his choke job down the stretch), Morneau simple wasn't the caliber of player that an MVP should be. Simply put, if you aren't the best (or most valuable) player on your own team, there is absolutely no way you should be considered for MVP of the league.

You called him the most overrated player in baseball. That wasn't enough, you emphasised it with Period. Your wrong. Maybe he was like your boy Swisher most of the season and just extremely unlucky down the stretch. The bottom line is he's a good player. Not nearly as overrated as you boy Nick.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Felix]

You called him the most overrated player in baseball. That wasn't enough, you emphasised it with Period. Your wrong. Maybe he was like your boy Swisher most of the season and just extremely unlucky down the stretch. The bottom line is he's a good player. Not nearly as overrated as you boy Nick.

I don't know where you got the idea that Swisher was 'my boy', but I feel obligated to inform you that he isn't. I was incredibly disappointed in him last year. However, despite this disappointment, I feel that he's a good candidate to bounce back, especially given how amazingly unlucky he was last year (and no, Morneau was not unlucky last year; his .312 BABIP was above the league average but in line with where it should have been given his LD%).

 

However, MVP voters (and fans) continuously tout Justin Morneau as an elite talent and one of the best players in baseball. Unfortunately, this isn't true. He's an above average player who happens to be lucky enough to be hitting behind the best contact hitter in baseball, but is not an elite talent alone. He finished the season 12th in VORP and 15th in OPS (American League rankings). He was tied for 18th in home runs with only 23 (which shouldn't matter, but is worth mentioning since his mythical power isn't really there), and only had a high number of RBI because of his major league high 400 AB with runners on (and league high 558 runners on). Morneau even ranked 10th in the AL in OBI% (other batted in, which is basically the percent of runners on that were driven in), slightly behind other MVP candidates like Carlos Quentin (9th) and Kevin Youkilis (8th). Interestingly enough, David DeJesus led the AL in this with 21% of runners on driven in. More importantly, Morneau completely disappeared down the stretch when his team needed him the most. He hit .267/.350/.481/.831 after the All-Star break when his team needed him the most. This includes his amazing .243/.298/.398/.696 line in September, which has already been mentioned by just about anyone arguing against him as a candidate.

 

I'm not saying Morneau is a bad offensive player. He had a good season, and was above average. However, the majority of sports writers (and fans apparently) seem to think that he's one of the best offensive players in the league and easily the best player on his team. They are wrong (which Rob Neyer covers the case for Joe Mauer pretty well here). In that sense, Justin Morneau is overrated.

 

Feel free to bash me and tell me that my apparent man-crush on Nick Swisher is just blinding me, but it doesn't change the fact that Morneau is not one of the elite offensive players in the league and should not have been in the top 5 for MVP voting this year or in 2006. If you want to prove me wrong, feel free, but it certainly shouldn't include anything about my opinion of Nick Swisher (which isn't really my opinion in the first place).

Edited November 19, 2008 by Felix

[whitesoxfan101]

I'd argue CQ deserves the award more than Pedroia does even with the missed time. Pedroia winning is a joke.

Edited November 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[BaseballNick]

Pedroia winning is a joke.

 

 

Why is that?

[whitesoxfan101]

Why is that?

 

1. 17th in the AL in OPS, and doesn't play near the defense to make up for that fact in terms of an MVP race.

2. Was a distant 2nd in terms of being the MVP of his own team.

 

There are plenty of other reasons he shouldn't have won, but those two alone are more than enough to show this obvious fact in my opinion.

[Dick Allen]

I don't know where you got the idea that Swisher was 'my boy', but I feel obligated to inform you that he isn't. I was incredibly disappointed in him last year. However, despite this disappointment, I feel that he's a good candidate to bounce back, especially given how amazingly unlucky he was last year (and no, Morneau was not unlucky last year; his .312 BABIP was above the league average but in line with where it should have been given his LD%).

 

However, MVP voters (and fans) continuously tout Justin Morneau as an elite talent and one of the best players in baseball. Unfortunately, this isn't true. He's an above average player who happens to be lucky enough to be hitting behind the best contact hitter in baseball, but is not an elite talent alone. He finished the season 12th in VORP and 15th in OPS (American League rankings). He was tied for 18th in home runs with only 23 (which shouldn't matter, but is worth mentioning since his mythical power isn't really there), and only had a high number of RBI because of his major league high 400 AB with runners on (and league high 558 runners on). Morneau even ranked 10th in the AL in OBI% (other batted in, which is basically the percent of runners on that were driven in), slightly behind other MVP candidates like Carlos Quentin (9th) and Kevin Youkilis (8th). Interestingly enough, David DeJesus led the AL in this with 21% of runners on driven in. More importantly, Morneau completely disappeared down the stretch when his team needed him the most. He hit .267/.350/.481/.831 after the All-Star break when his team needed him the most. This includes his amazing .243/.298/.398/.696 line in September, which has already been mentioned by just about anyone arguing against him as a candidate.

 

I'm not saying Morneau is a bad offensive player. He had a good season, and was above average. However, the majority of sports writers (and fans apparently) seem to think that he's one of the best offensive players in the league and easily the best player on his team. They are wrong (which Rob Neyer covers the case for Joe Mauer pretty well here). In that sense, Justin Morneau is overrated.

 

Feel free to bash me and tell me that my apparent man-crush on Nick Swisher is just blinding me, but it doesn't change the fact that Morneau is not one of the elite offensive players in the league and should not have been in the top 5 for MVP voting this year or in 2006. If you want to prove me wrong, feel free, but it certainly shouldn't include anything about my opinion of Nick Swisher (which isn't really my opinion in the first place).

You didn't say Morneau was overrratee, ou said Morneau was the most overrated player in baseball. Period. You can try to spin your error anyway you want, but he's not. He's driven in 370 runs the last 3 seasons. There are a lot of players more overrated than a guy who puts 3 seasons like that together. Maybe he was just incredibly unlucky when he made outs. You know the argument you made for Swisher.

[Felix]

You didn't say Morneau was overrratee, ou said Morneau was the most overrated player in baseball. Period. You can try to spin your error anyway you want, but he's not. He's driven in 370 runs the last 3 seasons. There are a lot of players more overrated than a guy who puts 3 seasons like that together. Maybe he was just incredibly unlucky when he made outs. You know the argument you made for Swisher.

I still have yet to see an argument that claims another player is more overrated than Morneau. I stand by that belief until I'm proven wrong. Your mention of RBIs hardly proves me wrong, but merely shows that you're using a poor stat to pad your argument. That's fine, but don't expect to convince me that way.

 

You also apparently continue to hang on this 'unlucky' business, even though it isn't relevant at all. The argument that I made for Swisher is completely different than the one for Morneau based on one key component: statistically, Morneau was right where he should have been while Swisher was well below where he should have been. Feel free to continue to harp over it without actually looking at the numbers, but it's obviously pointless for me to talk about it since you simply don't accept it. If that's the case there is no point for you to continuously mention in.

 

1. 17th in the AL in OPS, and doesn't play near the defense to make up for that fact in terms of an MVP race.

2. Was a distant 2nd in terms of being the MVP of his own team.

 

There are plenty of other reasons he shouldn't have won, but those two alone are more than enough to show this obvious fact in my opinion.

That didn't stop Morneau from winning it in 2006, when he was the third best player on his own team.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Felix

[whitesoxfan101]

That didn't stop Morneau from winning it in 2006, when he was the third best player on his own team.

 

I know that, he shouldn't have won either. Many of the baseball writers are stuck in 1975 in terms of their outlook on the game, and thus get a lot of this stuff wrong.

[Dick Allen]

I still have yet to see an argument that claims another player is more overrated than Morneau. I stand by that belief until I'm proven wrong. Your mention of RBIs hardly proves me wrong, but merely shows that you're using a poor stat to pad your argument. That's fine, but don't expect to convince me that way.

 

You also apparently continue to hang on this 'unlucky' business, even though it isn't relevant at all. The argument that I made for Swisher is completely different than the one for Morneau based on one key component: statistically, Morneau was right where he should have been while Swisher was well below where he should have been. Feel free to continue to harp over it without actually looking at the numbers, but it's obviously pointless for me to talk about it since you simply don't accept it. If that's the case there is no point for you to continuously mention in.

 

 

That didn't stop Morneau from winning it in 2006, when he was the third best player on his own team.

What was Morneau's BABIP for September? Looked it up, .256. Would he just be unlucky like Swisher instead of overrated and sucks? You seem to make that an all important and telling stat. I can think of a lot of players far more overrated. Jason Varitek, Derek Jeter, Ivan Rodriquez, Derek Lee. Where someone ranks on the MVP list is not indicative of how they are rated. There is more that goes into the MVP voting than pure stats.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Felix]

What was Morneau's BABIP for September? Looked it up, .256. Would he just be unlucky like Swisher instead of overrated and sucks? You seem to make that an all important and telling stat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_to_the_mean

 

Enjoy. I'm off to work.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Felix