Sox / Rays talking Jermaine Dye deal

[Texsox]

What players? Magglio? Who else? The extenuating circumstances surrounding the Ordonez ordeal make it moot. It had nothing to do with him going elsewhere for more money, I think most people can wrap their minds around that and except it, it's the way the whole situation played out. And even after all that bulls*** I still don't think nearly as many people harbor ill-will towards Magglio as you make you seem.

 

What players, how about every Boras client?

 

I'm sorry, I thought I've read here that certain players were greedy, asking too much money, not caring about what their contract does for their team, etc. I stand corrected if no one can recall players being taken to task for their salary demands.

[Jimmywins1]

Has anyone heard anything else on this deal, and were they saying that it's likely to get done?

[Texsox]

Whatever, you're just changing argument form post to post. Nobody here is rooting for Jermaine Dye to get traded because we want JD gone, his value has peaked and now we can something pretty good for him.

 

I'm done.

 

I am not changing.

 

I pointed this out that baseball is a business and it should be considered a business for both sides.

 

You just jumped to conclusions.

 

You will be back we always come back

[southsider2k5]

We haven't lost too many via free agency, so its been a short list. Maggs is about the only starter I can think of this century who bolted. Crede will be next. But I could also toss in the mix any player who looks for the biggest paycheck and we call them greedy. Talk about how they should look for a chance to win, etc. Read the Boras comments for examples. It's a business and we shouldn't ask one side (owners) to treat it like a business, then expect players to sign for less, be loyal, etc. thereby not treating it like a business.

 

I will shocked if one person changes their opinion of Joe Crede (good or bad) based on the contract he gets this off season. The only way that changes if he comes out and rips the White Sox for some reason this winter or spring.

[Kalapse]

What players, how about every Boras client?

 

I'm sorry, I thought I've read here that certain players were greedy, asking too much money, not caring about what their contract does for their team, etc. I stand corrected if no one can recall players being taken to task for their salary demands.

You're making blanket statements without any real evidence. No one rips a player for being represented by Boras, people hate Boras because he's a dirty mother f***er who loves to bend the rules and because of this the Sox refuse to sign his clients and this leads to a great deal of frustration throughout the fanbase but nobody who I would call a knowledgeable sports fan rips on a player because he looks to make as much money as possible. I can't remember anyone hating on Crede because he was represented by Boras, there was a lot of frustration but no actual animosity towards him due to his representation. Hell Derek Lowe is represented by Boras and is looking for $16M a year, there's more than a few people on this board who have mentioned Lowe as a possible target of the Sox's this offseason and now that it looks like there's next to no chance of him coming here i don't see anyone going after Lowe, calling him greedy and cursing his name.

[Dick Allen]

I will shocked if one person changes their opinion of Joe Crede (good or bad) based on the contract he gets this off season. The only way that changes if he comes out and rips the White Sox for some reason this winter or spring.

There have been plenty of posts mentioning Boras as Joe's agent and there has been some rips, so he is right to a certain degree about how Boras' clients are viewed by the majority here. He is incorrect about how most view players who left for bigger money. I think most of us would take the extra millions. I laugh at all those who have ripped ARod for signing with Texas saying he wanted money over winning. They offered him $100 million more than anyone else. If he didn't take it, he'd have been a moron.

 

If you looked at opinions about Crede in 2005-6 and compare them to now, they are pretty different.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Texsox]

I will shocked if one person changes their opinion of Joe Crede (good or bad) based on the contract he gets this off season. The only way that changes if he comes out and rips the White Sox for some reason this winter or spring.

I only meant that we will have lost two starters this century, not that he would be treated the same way.

[Texsox]

You're making blanket statements without any real evidence. No one rips a player for being represented by Boras, people hate Boras because he's a dirty mother f***er who loves to bend the rules and because of this the Sox refuse to sign his clients, nobody who I would call a knowledgeable sports fan rips on a player because he looks to make as much money as possible. I can't remember anyone hating on Crede because he was represented by Boras, there was a lot of frustration but no actual animosity towards him due to his representation. Hell Derek Lowe is represented by Boras and is looking for $16M a year, there's more than a few people on this board who have mentioned Lowe as a possible target of the Sox's this offseason and now that it looks like there's next to no chance of him coming here i don't see anyone going after Lowe, calling him greedy and cursing his name.

 

Again,

 

My point is baseball is a business and in fairness, fans should treat both sides equally in that.

Dye possibly being traded seemed like a great example. Great individual, has been playing fairly well, accepted less to play for the Sox, basically been a perfect Sox player. No one, including myself, is suggesting the team should show any loyalty. Now when we look at some players and the contracts they are looking for, we should remember that. Many posters already do, some do not.

 

I am surprised that caused controversy. If anything I expected a giant D'Oh!

[knightni]

If Dye leaves, is Griffey coming back?

[flavum]

If Dye leaves, is Griffey coming back?

 

Hell no!

 

[Dick Allen]

If Dye leaves, is Griffey coming back?

It wouldn't be shocking

[southsider2k5]

It wouldn't be shocking

 

^^^

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Kalapse]

Again,

 

My point is baseball is a business and in fairness, fans should treat both sides equally in that.

Dye possibly being traded seemed like a great example. Great individual, has been playing fairly well, accepted less to play for the Sox, basically been a perfect Sox player. No one, including myself, is suggesting the team should show any loyalty. Now when we look at some players and the contracts they are looking for, we should remember that. Many posters already do, some do not.

 

I am surprised that caused controversy.

You make it seem like the majority of the fan base expects the players to be loyal to the franchise when that's just not the case at all. My problem with what you're saying has nothing to do with the actually subject matter, I agree, it's a business there isn't and really shouldn't be much loyalty coming from either side. My problem is with your insinuation that people here have trouble coming to grips with this truth.

 

Because we dumped him. If he showed the same loyalty, and left on his own, we'd be talking Maggs level hate.

 

/just sayin'

This is just flatout wrong and is my major point of contention. Your comparing Dye to Magglio is just silly and your insinuation that the people on here could not accept it if dye were to leave for more money or ask for a trade (for good reason) just feels wrong to me seeing as how there's no history or evidence to back this up.

[Dick Allen]

Steve Stone in his blog says he expects a couple of trades to come up rather quickly and a couple of acquisitions to come up really quickly. He is a grammatical mess, so I don't know if trades and acquisitions are one and the same or if its a couple of trades and a couple of signings.

[GoodAsGould]

If Crawford isnt coming our way in this trade Im definitely uninterested. Edwin Jackson is not a good pitcher, he might make a decent middle reliever but still not overly impressive. I also think everyone gushes over Aybar too much who to me is more of a super utility player than a solid starter.

[Texsox]

My problem is with your insinuation that people here have trouble coming to grips with this truth.

 

I do not believe that insinuation was there, if it was, it was unintentional.

[Chisoxfn]

It's pretty evident if Kenny is in these type of talks that he must have something up his sleeve regarding either the funds or prospects/players acquired. My guess is it is more related to the funds acquired and the reason he needs to get them done sooner rather than later is that at least one of his plans involves free agency. I highly doubt they'd go after Sabathia given how long the deal would be and Sheets doesn't make much sense given his injury history (although clearly a front line ace would be a huge help).

 

Than there is Manny and Tex who you wouldn't think the Sox would go after. Tex still wouldn't make sense cause we've yet to hear anything about Konerko, but clearly Manny could fit into a new outfield and would help with attendance (just look at what happened in LA with him). I don't even think the money would be the problem because to an extent he would pay for himself, the bigger question is the years and if you could get him to bight on a 3yr 75-80M deal you make the move, imo. Quentin/Manny/Thome/Konerko would be a sick 3-4-5-6.

[RockRaines]

I think you'll either see KW flip some of these guys for a player like Roberts, or he will sign a FA we didnt even think about. I just hope KW knows that you cant unload Dye, Jenks and Javy and expect reclamation projects to fuel this team.

[Texsox]

the bigger question is the years and if you could get him to bight on a 3yr 75-80M deal you make the move, imo. Quentin/Manny/Thome/Konerko would be a sick 3-4-5-6.

 

Manny on a three year deal would be interesting and I'd be down with that. Manny on his last contract, I'm not. Matter of fact, I'd love to have Manny on his next to last contract. I just doubt he will sign less than a 5 and more likely a 6.

[Kalapse]

I do not believe that insinuation was there, if it was, it was unintentional.

Who about this; there's still a group of fans out there, mostly older fans who still can't come to grips with the millions of dollars these players are making and remember the good old days, before free agency when players would spend their entire careers with a club in an act of perceived loyalty (though the players didn't have much of a choice) and uninformed "weekend" fans who don't/refuse to understand the larger landscape of the modern game and the business like approach/attitude that has overtaken the major sports, who would take offense to a player looking out for themselves and accepting more money from another franchise because their current team refused to meet their demands. Indians fans still can't get over the loss of Jim Thome )he's booed to this day) largely because they refuse to accept the larger elements at play in that situation.

 

I still think ownership takes the brunt of fan criticism when a star player goes elsewhere in free agency. The owner/front office is called cheap and ripped for not making more of an effort to retain the player.

[GoodAsGould]

I think you'll either see KW flip some of these guys for a player like Roberts, or he will sign a FA we didnt even think about. I just hope KW knows that you cant unload Dye, Jenks and Javy and expect reclamation projects to fuel this team.

 

I think we do need atleast 1 true rebuilding year, we have been built to win, loaded with veterans since the 2000 season. At some point we have to juice the roster with an abundance of younger talent. I dont think we would of really contended with the same roster anyways.

[Chisoxfn]

I think you'll either see KW flip some of these guys for a player like Roberts, or he will sign a FA we didnt even think about. I just hope KW knows that you cant unload Dye, Jenks and Javy and expect reclamation projects to fuel this team.

Orlando Hudson is another FA possibility, but it might take a bit of time because there is no way the Sox are going to give him the 5/50 he's asking for.

[Kalapse]

Manny on a three year deal would be interesting and I'd be down with that. Manny on his last contract, I'm not. Matter of fact, I'd love to have Manny on his next to last contract. I just doubt he will sign less than a 5 and more likely a 6.

If he's offered enough money over 3 or 4 years I think he'll jump at it, I just don't see any team (even the Yankees) giving Manny 6 years. Keep in mind, the offer that Manny flatout rejected from the Dodgers was only 2 guaranteed years at $22.5M per, that's a low ball offer for sure.

 

Boras clients often have to settle for less than they demand at the opening of free agency, sure he's demanded 6 years now, just as Derek Lowe wants $16M, Jeff Weaver wanted 4 years 2 years ago and Kyle Lohse wanted $50M+ last year we'll see what they end up signing for in the end.

[RockRaines]

I think we do need atleast 1 true rebuilding year, we have been built to win, loaded with veterans since the 2000 season. At some point we have to juice the roster with an abundance of younger talent. I dont think we would of really contended with the same roster anyways.

I wasnt saying no rebuilding, I was saying flooding the team with reclamation projects, which means KW got a little cocky from his success with players like Floyd, Thornton, Q etc. There comes a time when players like Marquez, or the such will bomb just like they did with their original team.

[BearSox]

If you asked me a couple of weeks ago, I would have said Jackson and Aybar would have been our main targets, but since we got Betemit who is very similar to Aybar, we can cross him off of the list.

 

Edwin Jackson would still likely be the guy we'd want, plus prospects. Jackson has the type of arm that any GM would want, but has had control issues, and if he could finally put it all together, you're talking about a damn good starter. If not he is still a solid back end of the rotation starter, who could also thrive in a bullpen role.

 

What are people'e thoughts on Jake McGee of the Rays?