Sox / Rays talking Jermaine Dye deal

[ptatc]

Manny on a three year deal would be interesting and I'd be down with that. Manny on his last contract, I'm not. Matter of fact, I'd love to have Manny on his next to last contract. I just doubt he will sign less than a 5 and more likely a 6.

 

 

manny will never ever be on the White Sox. If Guillen had a problem with anderson and Swisher's attitudes, what do you think he will say a bout Manny.

 

You can dream all you want but Manny will never be on this team.

[Jimmywins1]

What are people'e thoughts on Jake McGee of the Rays?

 

He tore something in his elbow, he's still a good prospect, but I'd prefer Wade Davis

[ptatc]

Orlando Hudson is another FA possibility, but it might take a bit of time because there is no way the Sox are going to give him the 5/50 he's asking for.

 

I've been saying all along, this is the guy KW will sign.

[BearSox]

manny will never ever be on the White Sox. If Guillen had a problem with anderson and Swisher's attitudes, what do you think he will say a bout Manny.

 

You can dream all you want but Manny will never be on this team.

 

And hopefully that's the case. I can't understand why any team would want to bring that piece of crap into their organization. I don't care how much offensive help you need, the guy is a POS.

[BearSox]

I've been saying all along, this is the guy KW will sign.

I would have agreed with you if he wasn't asking for 5 years at 50 million.

[RockRaines]

How is it that the radio's have been reporting this, but not a word on it on the internet, especially on mlbtraderumors which reports if someone on the northside sneezes and it sounds like Peavy.

[Texsox]

If he's offered enough money over 3 or 4 years I think he'll jump at it, I just don't see any team (even the Yankees) giving Manny 6 years. Keep in mind, the offer that Manny flatout rejected from the Dodgers was only 2 guaranteed years at $22.5M per, that's a low ball offer for sure.

 

Boras clients often have to settle for less than they demand at the opening of free agency, sure he's demanded 6 years now, just as Derek Lowe wants $16M, Jeff Weaver wanted 4 years 2 years ago and Kyle Lohse wanted $50M+ last year we'll see what they end up signing for in the end.

 

Agreed. It seems that many GMs are hesitant to sign Manny for 4 or 5 years. But it will only take one to make his dreams come true.

 

I still say whomever holds Manny's last contract is taking a huge risk. He has demonstrated the ability to play half ass more than other players, and much more than other superstars.

[Jimmywins1]

Does anyone know if this is being reported anywhere else?

[jenksycat]

How is it that the radio's have been reporting this, but not a word on it on the internet, especially on mlbtraderumors which reports if someone on the northside sneezes and it sounds like Peavy.

 

It also took them about 12 hours to report the Vic (I vote that as his nickname) signing

[Kalapse]

Agreed. It seems that many GMs are hesitant to sign Manny for 4 or 5 years. But it will only take one to make his dreams come true.

 

I still say whomever holds Manny's last contract is taking a huge risk. He has demonstrated the ability to play half ass more than other players, and much more than other superstars.

Yeah but even when Manny was at his supposed worst effort wise (July, 2008) he still put up a .347/.473/.587/1.060 line. I just think he got too comfortable in Boston, he thought he could take a few days off just because he felt like it in the middle of the season without repercussions but he was dead wrong. I don't remember him being a distraction during his 8 years in Cleveland when they went to the WS twice or a major problem when he was just being Manny during the Red Sox World Series run in 2004, when you're talking about adding an all-time great talent like Manny I think it's worth the risk.

[G&T]

How is it that the radio's have been reporting this, but not a word on it on the internet, especially on mlbtraderumors which reports if someone on the northside sneezes and it sounds like Peavy.

 

While I'm surprise that mlbtraderumors doesn't have it, other writers might be waiting to get a scoop before reporting. They might be waiting to get some new info...or there is nothing to any of this.

[RockRaines]

While I'm surprise that mlbtraderumors doesn't have it, other writers might be waiting to get a scoop before reporting. They might be waiting to get some new info...or there is nothing to any of this.

Of course they reported 100000 times that the cubs were getting Peavy for 2 buckets of balls, but were almost a day late on an actual signing, so who knows.

[Texsox]

Yeah but even when Manny was at his supposed worst effort wise (July, 2008) he still put up a .347/.473/.587/1.060 line. I just think he got too comfortable in Boston, he thought he could take a few days off just because he felt like it in the middle of the season without repercussions but he was dead wrong. I don't remember him being a distraction during his 8 years in Cleveland when they went to the WS twice or a major problem when he was just being Manny during the Red Sox World Series run in 2004, when you're talking about adding an all-time great talent like Manny I think it's worth the risk.

 

There are worse risks and the upsides are many. The last thing I like to take risks with are character issues. And by character it's not the laughing at the camera antics, it's the not giving 100% antics that concern me. He's a phenomenal talent, but in three or four years, physically, I could see him in a similar spot as Junior, and wondering if he would give the same effort? And before someone starts comparing Manny to Junior and saying it is an unfair comparison, insert the aging player of your choice and give him Manny's efforts. Manny will get older. He will decline physically, then desire, heart, and effort take over.

[Kalapse]

There are worse risks and the upsides are many. The last thing I like to take risks with are character issues. And by character it's not the laughing at the camera antics, it's the not giving 100% antics that concern me. He's a phenomenal talent, but in three or four years, physically, I could see him in a similar spot as Junior, and wondering if he would give the same effort? And before someone starts comparing Manny to Junior and saying it is an unfair comparison, insert the aging player of your choice and give him Manny's efforts. Manny will get older. He will decline physically, then desire, heart, and effort take over.

That's why you only go as long as 4 years (preferably 3), play him for 1 year in LF then move him to DH in 2010 (assuming he's willing to make the move). This way you're risking maybe 1 or 2 years of 39/40 year old Manny quitting on your club because he's become so limited physically but even then; he'll be in a contract year and looking for his final deal, and NO ONE is going to want a 40/41 year old fat former superstar who can no longer play the field and is coming off a year in which he just didn't look like he gave a damn. Plus, I think Manny has a little more pride in himself and his legacy than to go out like that, like I said before, I just think he got too comfortable in Boston. I believe he truly loves the game (though he may not truly respect the integrity of the game which is a shame) and has about as much fun as anyone out there on the field, perhaps a bit too much fun at times.

[103 mph screwball]

Orlando Hudson is another FA possibility, but it might take a bit of time because there is no way the Sox are going to give him the 5/50 he's asking for.

 

I don't think KW will make moves to trade Dye or Jenks unless he has his free agent targets number. If he moves guys that big, he will have at least one free agent quickly. Furcal.

[Texsox]

That's why you only go as long as 4 years (preferably 3), play him for 1 year in LF then move him to DH in 2010 (assuming he's willing to make the move). This way you're risking maybe 1 or 2 years of 39/40 year old Manny quitting on your club because he's become so limited physically but even then; he'll be in a contract year and looking for his final deal, and NO ONE is going to want a 40/41 year old fat former superstar who can no longer play the field and is coming off a year in which he just didn't look like he gave a damn. Plus, I think Manny has a little more pride in himself and his legacy than to go out like that, like I said before, I just think he got too comfortable in Boston. I believe he truly loves the game (though he may not truly respect the integrity of the game which is a shame) and has about as much fun as anyone out there on the field, perhaps a bit too much fun at times.

 

I believe we both are thinking the same thing, have the next to last Manny contract and you are probably safe.

 

And the image of Buerhle and Manny cracking up warms my heart.

[scenario]

I had the SCORE on all afternoon... from Murphy's show until about 6pm and never once heard them mention anything about Dye or Tampa.

 

The only WhiteSox news they reported at all was the Viciedo signing.

 

So... help me out... were there any reputable baseball reporters talking about this today?

 

If so... who and when?

 

 

[G&T]

I had the SCORE on all afternoon... from Murphy's show until about 6pm and never once heard them mention anything about Dye or Tampa.

 

The only WhiteSox news they reported at all was the Viciedo signing.

 

So... help me out... were there any reputable baseball reporters talking about this today?

 

If so... who and when?

 

Same here. This is all non-sense from Levine I guess.

Edited November 22, 2008 by G&T

[ThunderBolt]

Ed Jackson is a guy who could defenitely find his way to Chicago in a deal. The Rays want to dump him badly from the sounds of it.

Unless we plan on raising his value by making him the Closer, Jackson has no value to us. Jackson was one of these vaunted AA Dodgers prospects (along with SS Joel Guzman) who got dramatically overhyped as soon as people figured out how great Logan White was, and tried to paint his every move as genius. He’s a fireballer with great stuff, but no control. You make him the closer he might just thrive, you make him a mult-iinnings guy he might just blow you a couple ballgames. That being said, Brignac + Jackson for Dye predicated on the notion that we trade Jackson two years from now if he retains value…. Let’s go for it.

[harfman77]

Dye for Iwamura and Howell? The only other piece that would fit woud be Upton, and I know Maddon had personality clashes with him, but I dont see that happening. If it does and the Mets deal happens, KW will get a lot of hype for his offseason moves, similar to Detroit last season.

[Princess Dye]

Brian Roberts, still hoping. Could be like the Pau Gasol situation in the NBA, where the other team holds off on so many trades over the years that they finally just give him away. Of course that had to do with expiring contracts which dont exist in MLB tradewise.

[shipps]

Dye for Iwamura and Howell? The only other piece that would fit woud be Upton, and I know Maddon had personality clashes with him, but I dont see that happening. If it does and the Mets deal happens, KW will get a lot of hype for his offseason moves, similar to Detroit last season.

 

I predict Howell sucks ass next season.No matter what team he is on I believe teams will have him figured out.

[Balta1701]

Dye for Iwamura and Howell? The only other piece that would fit woud be Upton, and I know Maddon had personality clashes with him, but I dont see that happening. If it does and the Mets deal happens, KW will get a lot of hype for his offseason moves, similar to Detroit last season.

I can see why people would be interested in Iwamura...but frankly, that's not what I want to get back in return if I deal JD. Not with Beckham waiting in the wings. And I really just don't want anything from their bullpen.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Unless we plan on raising his value by making him the Closer, Jackson has no value to us. Jackson was one of these vaunted AA Dodgers prospects (along with SS Joel Guzman) who got dramatically overhyped as soon as people figured out how great Logan White was, and tried to paint his every move as genius. He’s a fireballer with great stuff, but no control. You make him the closer he might just thrive, you make him a mult-iinnings guy he might just blow you a couple ballgames. That being said, Brignac + Jackson for Dye predicated on the notion that we trade Jackson two years from now if he retains value…. Let’s go for it.

So wait, a guy who has control problems would be better off becoming a closer where he has less time to warm up and less time to find his release point? It worked for Bobby, but Bobby is kind of the exception, not the rule, plus Bobby developed more into a pitcher. As a 4th or 5th starter with the potential to become a 2 or 3 I'd love Edwin Jackson, especially if we could also get a pitching prospect in the deal.

 

As for Brignac, why not just trade for the real Khalil Greene? He's out there and should cost quite a bit less.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I can see why people would be interested in Iwamura...but frankly, that's not what I want to get back in return if I deal JD. Not with Beckham waiting in the wings. And I really just don't want anything from their bullpen.

Yeah, trading anything of value just to block Gordon Beckham is not smart. We've already got Getz, Nix, and Betemit, and we could always sign Grudz for one year, so trading for Iwamura would be a step backwards.