Sox / Rays talking Jermaine Dye deal

[Chisoxfn]

On the other board they are saying Pelfrey. I know not spanish!

Pelfrey, Heilman and Martinez would be a very fair deal in my book. I'd say Javy > Heilman straight up...Pelfrey and Martinez is arguably greater than Jenks. You make that deal and you now have Pelfrey and potentially Edwin Jackson joining your rotation (two guys that seemed to make a lot of progress last year), Heilman strengthens the pen (with Thornton getting closer duties most likely and Poreda sliding into a lefty set-up spot) and you just got another premiere minor league prospect with super star potential in Martinez.

[Chisoxfn]

Why? It frees up a ton of cash, and Jackson wasn't bad last season, and will probably get better if 25% of his starts arent' against Boston and the Yankees.

Heilman has a pretty nice arm and is a valuable rubber arm type of reliever who could spot start in a pinch.

[fathom]

Heilman absolutely, positively sucks! He would be pathetic as a starter in the American League.

[caulfield12]

Not to mention TCQ in the middle of the line-up. Mustn't forget about him.

[DukeNukeEm]

If you could get Crawford, Davis and a couple more prospects for Jenks and Dye, would you make that move?

I couldn't say yes fast enough. You're still left with a pretty hefty chip in Vazquez to do whatever the hell you want.

[103 mph screwball]

If Dye, JV, and Jenks get traded, that would free up a ton of free agent money for KW to play with. It would also be kinda twins like in a good way. KW thinks big. Who would be the new closer? starter?

This is fun.

[CWSOX45]

Heilman absolutely, positively sucks! He would be pathetic as a starter in the American League.

 

I responded to this another post:

 

The report out of New York is that he wants to start for the Mets. If they won't start him, then he wants to be traded to another team where he will continue to relieve. He just refuses to pitch from the pen in New York. He feels the Mets owe him a starting job. (Yeah right.)

 

Either way if the Sox trade for him he will be pitching from the pen.

 

No way the Sox will make him a starter.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Whoah...whoah. I'd be down for trading Javy and Jenks but we better be getting two good spects in addition to Heilman in that package.

Dye for Jackson and Niemann

Jenks and Javy for Heilman, Niese, and Martinez

 

1B Konerko

2B Nix vs. Getz

3B Fields vs. Betemit

SS Alexei

C AJ

LF Viciedo vs. Martinez

CF ?

RF Quentin

 

SP Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Jackson, Heilman vs. Niese vs. Niemann vs. Richard

 

Pen: L Thornton CL, R Linebrink SU, L Richard SU, R Dotel SU/RSP, L Poreda LSP, 2 SP competition losers vs. Wassermann vs. Russell vs. Link vs. Nunez vs. whoever else for 2 spots

 

The Sox can then look to swing a smaller deal for a CF like Taveras or sign Kotsay for 1 year if possible, and maybe sign a reclamation project SP like Freddy or Pedro as well. Lots of youthful depth there.

[sircaffey]

I have no problem with Heilman as a RP. Mid 90's FB w/ a tremendous CH. He lacks a 3rd pick to be a SP.

[fathom]

Dye for Jackson and Niemann

Jenks and Javy for Heilman, Niese, and Martinez

 

1B Konerko

2B Nix vs. Getz

3B Fields vs. Betemit

SS Alexei

C AJ

LF Viciedo vs. Martinez

CF ?

RF Quentin

 

SP Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Jackson, Heilman vs. Niese vs. Niemann vs. Richard

 

Pen: L Thornton CL, R Linebrink SU, L Richard SU, R Dotel SU/RSP, L Poreda LSP, 2 SP competition losers vs. Wassermann vs. Russell vs. Link vs. Nunez vs. whoever else for 2 spots

 

The Sox can then look to swing a smaller deal for a CF like Taveras or sign Kotsay for 1 year if possible, and maybe sign a reclamation project SP like Freddy or Pedro as well. Lots of youthful depth there.

 

That team wouldn't win 70 games, and then the attendance decline would destroy our payroll for the following season. Sometimes, I wish people would take a step back and look at the roster they're actually predicting and think if there's any chance of that happening.

[Chisoxfn]

Heilman absolutely, positively sucks! He would be pathetic as a starter in the American League.

I agree that as a starter he'd be bad, but even last year, in a down season, his periph's are very good and he has a nice arm. I'd love to have him in our pen. But isn't he due to become a FA shortly? I could possibly by heilman for Javy because the Sox clearly are completely down on Javy and want to free his cash. However, Pelfrey for Jenks is not a fair deal at all. Pelfrey, a top prospect, and Heilman is something I could live with.

[Harry Chappas]

That team wouldn't win 70 games, and then the attendance decline would destroy our payroll for the following season. Sometimes, I wish people would take a step back and look at the roster they're actually predicting and think if there's any chance of that happening.

 

Thank you. This thread is quickly turning into all of the marketable Sox players suck but the youth of other franchises rock. Having a young team is not the be all end all that is being portrayed here.

 

If the Sox are giving up Jenks/Vazquez I better of heard of the player(s) they are getting I don't care about their potential VORP, OBP+, K/9IP, ERA+ or crap like that.

[DukeNukeEm]

Fernando Martinez should not be in our plans for 2009 or even 2010. He's got some work to do. That said, I'd take him in a heartbeat for Javier Vazquez.

[fathom]

I agree that as a starter he'd be bad, but even last year, in a down season, his periph's are very good and he has a nice arm. I'd love to have him in our pen. But isn't he due to become a FA shortly? I could possibly by heilman for Javy because the Sox clearly are completely down on Javy and want to free his cash. However, Pelfrey for Jenks is not a fair deal at all. Pelfrey, a top prospect, and Heilman is something I could live with.

 

He gave up a ton of homers in the NL, pitching in a huge ballpark, in situations where he only has to throw his top 2 pitches or so. Nothing about him translates to being an effective starter in the AL at the Cell.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

That team wouldn't win 70 games, and then the attendance decline would destroy our payroll for the following season. Sometimes, I wish people would take a step back and look at the roster they're actually predicting and think if there's any chance of that happening.

That's quite a bold prediction considering the level of talent involved. A 3-4-5-6 of Quentin-Thome-Konerko-Alexei, a bullpen featuring Thornton-Dotel-Linebrink-Poreda/Richard at the back, and a rotation of Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Jackson as the top 4 and you think that team isn't even good enough to finish 12 games under .500?

[Chisoxfn]

He gave up a ton of homers in the NL, pitching in a huge ballpark, in situations where he only has to throw his top 2 pitches or so. Nothing about him translates to being an effective starter in the AL at the Cell.

I'm not suggesting him as a starter. THe only reason he'd start is due to injuries.

[fathom]

That's quite a bold prediction considering the level of talent involved. A 3-4-5-6 of Quentin-Thome-Konerko-Alexei, a bullpen featuring Thornton-Dotel-Linebrink-Poreda/Richard at the back, and a rotation of Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Jackson as the top 4 and you think that team isn't even good enough to finish 12 games under .500?

 

Do you remember how much our bullpen sucked without Jenks, and making Thornton and Linebrink try and pitch in different situations? That 3-4-5-6 is good, but we're in the AL....most teams have strong 3-4-5s in their lineup. With the Tigers, Indians, and Twins looking to spend money to upgrade their pitching (offense for the Twins), it just bothers me how every trade proposal seems to be the Sox downgrading their 25 man roster talent for prospects. The Swisher trade was terrible, and some of these proposals make that one seem like Thornton for Borchard.

[fathom]

I'm not suggesting him as a starter. THe only reason he'd start is due to injuries.

 

So then we'd be trading Vazquez for a 7th inning reliever?

[Balta1701]

So then we'd be trading Vazquez for a 7th inning reliever?

Considering he's refusing to stay a reliever any more...it seems that way.

[103 mph screwball]

That team wouldn't win 70 games, and then the attendance decline would destroy our payroll for the following season. Sometimes, I wish people would take a step back and look at the roster they're actually predicting and think if there's any chance of that happening.

 

It will look a bit better after the money is spent on a couple of free agents. Bobby Abreu and Furcal would make a difference. Burnett and Furcal? Manny? KW will not sit on the money. If these trades happen, he has a plan.

[DukeNukeEm]

So then we'd be trading Vazquez for a 7th inning reliever?

Unless we went out and signed Mark Texiera and Rafael Furcal with the money we saved I would be pretty pissed off about trading Javier Vazquez for Aaron Hielmann. I dont like anything the Mets have, Fernando Martinez is too much projection for what we'd have to give up to get him and they'll never trade Beltran, Reyes or Wright. Kenny Williams has never made a trade for the sake of making a trade, lets not fall into that trap.

[fathom]

It will look a bit better after the money is spent on a couple of free agents. Bobby Abreu and Furcal would make a difference. Burnett and Furcal? Manny? KW will not sit on the money. If these trades happen, he has a plan.

 

Well, there have been rumors that Sox are looking to cut payroll, but nothing more has been said about that. I think Abreu would be a great fit for the Sox in RF. I can't see Furcal happening, as 4 years to a guy with a bad back problem doesn't seem like the KW way of doing things.

[fathom]

It will look a bit better after the money is spent on a couple of free agents. Bobby Abreu and Furcal would make a difference. Burnett and Furcal? Manny? KW will not sit on the money. If these trades happen, he has a plan.

 

I'm still waiting for the White Sox to get into a bidding war for a big time free agent and sign that player during the 21st century (not including Konerko, which was a totally different situation).

[RockRaines]

Ugh. The mets dont have alot to offer for Jenks IMO. Of course this would all be offset if we saved like 40 million a year and that opened up room to sign someone like Furcal, or even Tex.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Do you remember how much our bullpen sucked without Jenks, and making Thornton and Linebrink try and pitch in different situations? That 3-4-5-6 is good, but we're in the AL....most teams have strong 3-4-5s in their lineup. With the Tigers, Indians, and Twins looking to spend money to upgrade their pitching (offense for the Twins), it just bothers me how every trade proposal seems to be the Sox downgrading their 25 man roster talent for prospects. The Swisher trade was terrible, and some of these proposals make that one seem like Thornton for Borchard.

First, this is just assuming that no one else is signed. If the Sox lose $4.5M for Uribe + $9M for Cabrera + $5M for Swisher + about $3-5M for Jenks in arbitration + $2M in Hall + $5M for Crede + whatever they were paying on Griffey's contract + $11.5M for Javy + $11M for Dye - which is well over $50M combined - I have to think they'll spend some money somewhere. Adding another $10M or so combined in Heilman, Betemit, Jackson, and Viciedo probably won't be the end of it.

 

But, even if that was the end of it, you have to think that as that team stands, our bullpen is better than anyone else's in the division except for maybe Minnesota. Our rotation is better than anyone's except for maybe Minny and Cleveland. The heart of our offense is better than anyone else's in the division, and we still probably hit our 200 HR. Our defense is at least competitive with anyone else except KC or Minny. So by doing nothing else we're still a contender on paper, and if Kenny drops that much salary, I'm sure he'll make a splash somewhere.