ESPN radio reporting Mets/White Sox talks heating up...

[BearSox]

Basically, scouts have said that once his body fills out and he matures, he's suppossed to be a stud. I myself have been skeptical of him, but if we could get him, Pelfry (solid guy, not a stud like some people make him out to be IMO), and Murphy in return, as well as a lot of freed salary room, you do it. Martinez at least has the potential to be a stud, and can be involved in a different deal as he is coveted by most steam I guess.

[beck72]

Street's velocity was down at times last year. If he's throwing at 88-90 he's not good. If his velocity is back up, I wouldn't mind having him in the pen. As long as his slider that he throws 99.999999% of the time has some umfff on it, he can be effective.

There were stats that reported his velocity down like .5 mph. Not a big deal

[beck72]

Part of me thinks Williams has a standing deal in place with the Rockies to acquire Street, but obviously wants to make sure Jenks is actually dealt before making the move.

Probably a good guess. The sox could also net Taveras in such a deal. Not much has been talked about lately w/ Taveras around the league.

[3E8]

Soooooooo.... Somebody explain the excitement to me. Please.

His OPS is better than league average and he's 4-5 years younger than most of his competition in the Eastern Leauge

[Kalapse]

There were stats that reported his velocity down like .5 mph. Not a big deal

On average his fastball was down 0.4 MPH from '07 (90 compared to 90.4) and down 1.7 MPH from '06 (91.7).

[scenario]

His OPS is better than league average and he's 4-5 years younger than most of his competition in the Eastern Leauge

 

He just turned 20. That means he is 2-3 years younger than most of the other real prospects... not 4-5 years. Most 24-25 year olds still in AA are not prospects.

 

 

[3E8]

Hey I'm just giving you the facts, interpret them as you wish

[False Alarm]

He just turned 20. That means he is 2-3 years younger than most of the other real prospects... not 4-5 years. Most 24-25 year olds still in AA are not prospects.

he played the season at 19. he was about four years younger than an average AA prospect--and held his own. birthday is huge. and yeah, the scouting reports say the tools are outstanding. compare what he did as a 19-year-old at AA (or even as an 18-year-old the year before) to what, say, jose martinez or escobar did as 19-year-olds at low A for the chisox. plenty of reason for caution or skepticism or whatever, since we haven't seen the power develop yet, but he's a very good prospect.

[sircaffey]

Martinez also injured his hamstring on multiple occasions this past season.

 

In 75 AB so far in winter ball, Martinez is putting up a .360/.402/.587 line with 4 2B, 2 3B, 3 HR, 15 RBI, 14 SO, 5 BB, 4 SB, 1 CS...Get him.

[michelangelosmonkey]

If we could get Murphy, Pelfry, and Martinez for Jenks and Vazquez, as well as Edwin Jackson and another piece or two for Dye, as well as one big free agent signing, I'd consider this to be one hell of a successful offseason.

You kidding me? We get Reed who hit .400 last year as a 23 year old at AA...#1 outfield prospect in baseball, one of the youngest starting catchers in the majors baseball who once he fills into his body will become Johnny Bench, and a 22 year old SS as a throw in who put up no less than an .872 OPS in AA. All that for Freddy Garcia who's seen his wins, his ERA, his K's and his WHIP get worse for the third consecutive year. What a haul for a pitcher that's seen better days.

 

We need to remember that there is a HUGE difference between those who have done it in the majors and those that might. How many relief pitchers have had 30 saves the last three years in a row? Rivera, Nathan, Krod, Trevor Hoffman and Jenks...don't undervalue how good he's been. And I was frustrated by Vazquez last year too...but 9 years in a row of 200 innings, double digit wins and a career 1.27 WHIP? That's not as easily replaced as some here think.

[TCQ]

You kidding me? We get Reed who hit .400 last year as a 23 year old at AA...#1 outfield prospect in baseball, one of the youngest starting catchers in the majors baseball who once he fills into his body will become Johnny Bench, and a 22 year old SS as a throw in who put up no less than an .872 OPS in AA. All that for Freddy Garcia who's seen his wins, his ERA, his K's and his WHIP get worse for the third consecutive year. What a haul for a pitcher that's seen better days.

 

We need to remember that there is a HUGE difference between those who have done it in the majors and those that might. How many relief pitchers have had 30 saves the last three years in a row? Rivera, Nathan, Krod, Trevor Hoffman and Jenks...don't undervalue how good he's been. And I was frustrated by Vazquez last year too...but 9 years in a row of 200 innings, double digit wins and a career 1.27 WHIP? That's not as easily replaced as some here think.

 

There is a difference in those whove done it and those who havent. Theres also a difference between those who havent and those who will no longer. It would be a no brainer to make the kind of trade you commented on because with all of the potential that is in that package it is a risk one could live with. Vazquez fell apart under pressure and is extremely erratic. The point that he pitches 200 innings a year is moot due to his performance.

Trading Jenks would be a very smart move as well if that was the package we got back because i can almost guarentee that he will not be on that same list in the next few years. He has a bolt in his arm and a declining k rate. People need to stop being so pro jenks just because he is a fan favorite. It is a business, and in this business the save is the most overrated stat. I know its not always easy to find the right guy to close but for every situation that there is a bad closer someone like JJ Putz (Two years ago), George Sherrill(This year), or Chad Cordero (Three years ago) comes out of no where to be spectacular. No one that pitches 60 innings a year should be guarded so heavily if he could yield that kind of return.

[YASNY]

How often have we read other teams boards and thought, the fans are f***ing nuts, no way the Sox would accept that. And I'm certain they look at ours and think the same thing sometimes.

 

Hell, I look at ours and think the same thing sometimes.

[striker]

If I understand correctly, this is real life and not MLB 2k7.

 

Sorry for the asshole comment, but for something like you suggested were to happen, this would be MLB 2k7.

 

Don't pay attention to the players I mentioned other than the fact that we would get promising prospects and free up money to bring in possible free agents. The point I was trying to make is if you can turn 3 good players into 5 or 6 good players then you should do it. I think it would be worth it for the Mets too.

[caulfield12]

There is a difference in those whove done it and those who havent. Theres also a difference between those who havent and those who will no longer. It would be a no brainer to make the kind of trade you commented on because with all of the potential that is in that package it is a risk one could live with. Vazquez fell apart under pressure and is extremely erratic. The point that he pitches 200 innings a year is moot due to his performance.

Trading Jenks would be a very smart move as well if that was the package we got back because i can almost guarentee that he will not be on that same list in the next few years. He has a bolt in his arm and a declining k rate. People need to stop being so pro jenks just because he is a fan favorite. It is a business, and in this business the save is the most overrated stat. I know its not always easy to find the right guy to close but for every situation that there is a bad closer someone like JJ Putz (Two years ago), George Sherrill(This year), or Chad Cordero (Three years ago) comes out of no where to be spectacular. No one that pitches 60 innings a year should be guarded so heavily if he could yield that kind of return.

 

 

Or Hermanson (2005), Shingo for half a season in 2004.

[greg775]

If we trade Jenks AND Vazquez, I want Beltran in return

 

Me too. But that ain't happening. Hope KW and his scouts have evaluated these Mets correctly.

Can you say rebuilding mode?

[michelangelosmonkey]

There is a difference in those whove done it and those who havent. Theres also a difference between those who havent and those who will no longer. It would be a no brainer to make the kind of trade you commented on because with all of the potential that is in that package it is a risk one could live with. Vazquez fell apart under pressure and is extremely erratic. The point that he pitches 200 innings a year is moot due to his performance.

Trading Jenks would be a very smart move as well if that was the package we got back because i can almost guarentee that he will not be on that same list in the next few years. He has a bolt in his arm and a declining k rate. People need to stop being so pro jenks just because he is a fan favorite. It is a business, and in this business the save is the most overrated stat. I know its not always easy to find the right guy to close but for every situation that there is a bad closer someone like JJ Putz (Two years ago), George Sherrill(This year), or Chad Cordero (Three years ago) comes out of no where to be spectacular. No one that pitches 60 innings a year should be guarded so heavily if he could yield that kind of return.

I understand that this is the board Mantra about Jenks...he's an inch away from falling off the cliff. But a lot of great pitchers that pitched a long time have had arm surgery. Jenks this year had his lowest career ERA and second lowest WHIP. Further there are a ton of one hit wonders as relievers that lose it the next year...there are a handful that are consistent savers. Look at the WS champions the last 15 years and almost everyone had one of those guys that have had 30+ saves for five years in a row or more. Jenks seems to me that kind of a pitcher...perfect temperament for closing games...and he's learned there is no need to strike everyone out...yes he used to strike out twice as many as he does now...but he also walked twice as many. ASk Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Texas, Arizona...the Mets, there are a ton of teams with a lot of talent that don't make it because they have awful closers. We have a jewel in Bobby Jenks and I just hope we don't trade him away for a sack of magic beans...no matter how high the NY media thinks thinks those beans will grow.

[greg775]

We have a jewel in Bobby Jenks and I just hope we don't trade him away for a sack of magic beans...no matter how high the NY media thinks thinks those beans will grow.

 

I agree, though I was encouraged reading some article about the Sox brass being high on some minor league reliever ready to take over for Bobby. I'm not sold on Thornton closing, not at all, except by committee.

[ThunderBolt]

I love the hell out of Bobby Jenks, but he’s a closer. And a closer, by definition, is easily replaced. While I'm not saying his replacement (whether it be Link, Dotel, Thorton or whomever) will replicate Jenks stats or the energy that his presence brings to the mound, I don't think it will be that difficult to find someone to step in to the 9th inning role and get three outs. If we can get Pelfrey, Martinez or Murphy/Heilman for what is in essence, a closer, and a 3/4 Starter we do it, and we do it without hesitation.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Thunderbolt

[Princess Dye]

I've been saying you trade Jenks now if the really amazing package comes along.

 

He's not an exceptional closer. He's been very solid, but he doesnt make the team SO good that you turn down a restart of the farm system.

[bighurt4life]

I've been saying you trade Jenks now if the really amazing package comes along.

 

He's not an exceptional closer. He's been very solid, but he doesnt make the team SO good that you turn down a restart of the farm system.

 

agree. plus he was a lot more fun to watch when he lit up the radar. 93mph doesn't get me hot like 100 does

[Reddy]

Me too. But that ain't happening. Hope KW and his scouts have evaluated these Mets correctly.

Can you say rebuilding mode?

mets fans think that even martinez and pelfrey is way too much to give up for vaz and jenks. martinez will be solid, and pelfrey's turning out to be a stud. his sinkerball is webb-esque and he could do really well for us. i doubt we'd get murphy as well, tho he projects to be a poor man's chase utley. i'd love it, but it wont happen. even so, the 2 for 2 i'd do in a heartbeat.

[caulfield12]

I agree, though I was encouraged reading some article about the Sox brass being high on some minor league reliever ready to take over for Bobby. I'm not sold on Thornton closing, not at all, except by committee.

 

Link...they're not high on him YET, but his name is getting mentioned due to his 2008 success.

 

Poreda, in my opinion, would be more likely...although that's asking a ton from a rookie, but Jenks managed it.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Fernando Martinez must have some unbelievable tools. Either that or the best damn agent in the world.

 

He's a 6'1" 190 pound 19-year old who played in AA this year... here's his 2008 stat line:

 

352 at-bats... .287 BA, .340 OBP, .772 OPS, 19 doubles, 4 triples, 8 homeruns... 73 strikeouts, 27 walks, and a whopping 6 stolen bases.

 

OK... unfair to use only one years numbers... let's go back a year to 2007.... also in AA...

 

236 at-bats... .271 BA, .336 OBP, .713 OPS, 11 doubles, 1 triple, 4 homeruns... 51 Ks, 20 walks, and 3 stolen bases.

 

Soooooooo.... Somebody explain the excitement to me. Please.

Yeah, he's playing ahead of his age... but based on his production, maybe he shouldn't be.

 

Anyway, what is his claim to fame? Power? Speed? Plate discipline? Right now the numbers suggest none of the above. And 6'1" 190 pounds does not suggest a huge amount of projection based on his filling out. Does it? (If those height and weight numbers are correct, he is pretty 'filled out' already.)

 

I'm willing to be sold, but anyone suggesting that we send Javy and Jenks to NY because we're supposed to get this guy back as the centerpiece of the deal better have a reaaallly good explanation how he makes us a better team in 2009... if ever.

 

I'm guessing that the "excitement," as it is many times in the sporting world, is that he's a player for a team from New York.

 

Think Lastings Milledge or Greg Jefferies or any other mediocre guy -- add a bunch of New York coverage, mix and let sit: PRESTO -- OVERRATED.

 

[caulfield12]

Also when it comes to Wood and Hoffman, the Mets think both would be more amenable to short-term deals. This would mean fewer overall dollars at risk while also giving the Mets an opportunity to further discover if a Bobby Parnell or Eddie Kunz could be their closer of the future. One Mets official, in fact, said Wood threw the ball as well in 2008 as any available closer. Another official said of the possibility of Hoffman, "should we go one year with this guy rather than tie up our money for three or four years?"

 

The Mets also are taking their time in this market to see whether Seattle makes J.J. Putz available. Of all the potential closers, Putz intrigues them because of a combination of stuff and affordability (two years at $13.8 million left on his deal).

 

The Mets also remain very interested in Huston Street and believe Colorado, which recently obtained him from Oakland, would spin him again. The Mets had bad scouting reports on Street near the July 31 trade deadline, but their September reports had his fastball up again consistently in the 93-mph range, and they believe Street could - at the least - be a high-end eighth-inning man if they could secure a closer.

 

The Mets do not like the current pricetags on the White Sox's Bobby Jenks and Houston's Jose Valverde. Now it might turn out they don't like the pricetags on K-Rod and Fuentes, as well, but end up doing three years with a very makeable fourth-year option or flat four-year deals because they badly want to fill the role. But as one rival executive said, "The Mets know they can wait. They know if one of those closers gets a four-year offer, they will at least go back to the Mets to see if the big dog in this market will top it. So why would the Mets act first before knowing for sure?"

 

newyorkpost.com

 

Good article with many Cooper quotes on Jenks, his maturation as a pitcher and a possible trade to Mets.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws

 

Edited November 22, 2008 by caulfield12

[beck72]

Even if the sox wind up trading Dye, Jenks, Vazquez, hell, even Konerko, they aren't rebuilding in the sense of writing off 2009. They are trying to compete in 2009 and for the long term by getting younger, better players with upside. This is like the Twins plus. The Twins build around Morneau and Mauer, with strong pitching, defense and contact hitters. The sox can build around Quentin and Alexei, and now Viciedo, and Beckham, with strong pitching, solid defense and guys who can hit for avg and power, and still run the bases some. If the sox add a Fernando Martinez to the mix, that's a very strong core to have in place for years.

 

If the sox add a Pelfrey and Edwin Jackson, to Buerhle, Danks, Floyd, and Poreda, with a variety of bullpen arms, that's a strong starting pitching staff as well that can compete for a few years.