Dye to Reds Speculation

[almagest]

LMAO

 

A pitcher can control where he throws the ball and how he throws it. Some pitchers have trouble keeping their body under control, but that is not because they are unlucky. If a pitcher can control the opposition hitting home runs, why do pitchers allow that stuff?

 

And BTW, if you've never seen a pitcher's pitch hit for a home run then you have never seen a very good hitter in action.

If this were the case, then HR/9 wouldn't be a sustainable stat -- you'd see wild variations for almost every pitcher. A little research shows this isn't the case at all. Also, just because a good hitter hits a pitcher's pitch for a home run doesn't invalidate the point. I'm not sure why you'd even say that.

[GoodAsGould]

How much of Edwin Jackson have you really seen, his fastball might be high velocity but has no movement to it. If he was so good why was he left off the playoff roster, the Rays didn't even want him in the bullpen.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

He also doesn't strike anyone out anymore. That changed.

 

What the f*** does this have to do with Gavin? He's not garbage -- he can strike people out and his season of success was actually good peripherally.

Gavin Floyd's peripherals prior to this year were a lot worse than Edwin Jackson. What I am saying is that you once again miss the entire f***ing point that a young kid's minor league numbers or early MLB performance is not in any way a reliable indicator of how he will perform in the future. Gavin's control improved a ton last year. You would have said he sucked based on your current "logic."

[eickevinmorris]

Gavin Floyd's peripherals prior to this year were a lot worse than Edwin Jackson. What I am saying is that you once again miss the entire f***ing point that a young kid's minor league numbers or early MLB performance is not in any way a reliable indicator of how he will perform in the future. Gavin's control improved a ton last year. You would have said he sucked based on your current "logic."

Not really. I was encouraged by the fact Floyd has actually enjoyed success above the AA level.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If this were the case, then HR/9 wouldn't be a sustainable stat -- you'd see wild variations for almost every pitcher. A little research shows this isn't the case at all. Also, just because a good hitter hits a pitcher's pitch for a home run doesn't invalidate the point. I'm not sure why you'd even say that.

A pitcher cannot control whether or not he gives up home runs because he does not himself swing the bat. He can throw a meatball right down the middle of the plate, and do it again and again and again and not be taken yard, but then the next hitter can come up and hit a good pitch 450 feet. The pitcher has no say; all he can do is throw the ball. The odds say that a flyball pitcher with X stuff in X park in X league will generally give up X HR's. That has nothing to do with anything the pitcher has control over.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/V/J...r-Vazquez.shtml

 

As far as it being a "sustainable stat" it is not, not anymore than H/9 rate which also varies a lot, and is again something the pitcher has virtually no control over. Look at Javy's numbers above for an example.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

How much of Edwin Jackson have you really seen, his fastball might be high velocity but has no movement to it. If he was so good why was he left off the playoff roster, the Rays didn't even want him in the bullpen.

He was left off the playoff roster during the first round because they only needed 4 starters tops. He was with them through the rest of the playoffs and pitched in the rest of the playoffs.

 

And how much movement do you expect to see on a 98mph fastball? The key is his offspeed stuff. If he can locate his change and slider to go with the speed of his fastball he'll keep hitters off balance.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Not really. I was encouraged by the fact Floyd has actually enjoyed success above the AA level.

Putting up a 4.42 ERA in the American League as a 24 year old is called success.

 

 

[Hatchetman]

A pitcher cannot control whether or not he gives up home runs because he does not himself swing the bat.

 

You are hopelessly clueless. I'm guessing you're like 18 years old, so you have no clue who Tommy John and Bert Blyleven were. Check out their career stats and tell me a pitcher has no control over giving up home runs.

 

[joejoesox]

You are hopelessly clueless. I'm guessing you're like 18 years old, so you have no clue who Tommy John and Bert Blyleven were. Check out their career stats and tell me a pitcher has no control over giving up home runs.

I'll agree that a pitcher has some control over whether or not he gives up a HR, however a hitter ultimately has the final decision to take a pitch, or swing at it and if he swings, where he wants to put his bat while he swings

 

There are many homeruns that are hit on good pitches

[Hatchetman]

I'll agree that a pitcher has some control over whether or not he gives up a HR, however a hitter ultimately has the final decision to take a pitch, or swing at it and if he swings, where he wants to put his bat while he swings

 

There are many homeruns that are hit on good pitches

 

And many more hit on bad pitches. Some pitchers have a tendency to give up more homers than other pitchers, there's no doubt about that. The examples are numerous. Compare Clemens to Scott Sanderson, .66 HR/9 compared to 1.04 HR/9. That's over 5000 and 2500 IPs respectively.

 

Look at a guy like Dan Quisenberry. About the only thing significant about him was his ability to not give up home runs (.51 HR/9).

[G&T]

This quote from SI

The White Sox also have been fielding offers for star closer Bobby Jenks and rightfielder Jermaine Dye, but baseball people now believe the team is likely to hold onto those two top players. The Mets inquired about Jenks while the Reds and Rays were among several to show interest in Dye.

 

Heyman

[eickevinmorris]

Putting up a 4.42 ERA in the American League as a 24 year old is called success.

It was an absolute mirage.

 

And please, don't call it a 98 MPH fastball. That's ridiculous -- he averaged a fastball a tad lower than 94 on the season.

 

[southsider2k5]

FWIW, I read some posts on a Reds board that was linked to here, and someone over there was saying the Reds took away his FB for much of the year to concentrate on his offspeed stuff. Also I read that his velocity was back up at the end of the year and he was sitting in the mid-90's with his FB. I have no idea why his velocity would have been down on his FB earlier, unless he was trying to do something different with the pitch, but I imagine that if there were any problems whatsoever Bailey would have been shut down immediately. Instead he made 27 starts combined for Triple A Lousiville and the Reds.

 

There was also a mention of a nagging groin injury, which would make a lot of sense.

[southsider2k5]

And guys, I really don't want to have to suspend someone. The insults are over the line and personal.

[caulfield12]

It was an absolute mirage.

 

And please, don't call it a 98 MPH fastball. That's ridiculous -- he averaged a fastball a tad lower than 94 on the season.

 

 

You can "flash" a 98 MPH (heck, even Zach Greinke can do this when he wants) and still consistently be 92-95, which is what Jackson's profile would tell you.

[GoodAsGould]

You can "flash" a 98 MPH (heck, even Zach Greinke can do this when he wants) and still consistently be 92-95, which is what Jackson's profile would tell you.

 

I think that was more true when he was with the Dodgers, I don't remember him anywhere near 98 with Tampa this season.

[ThunderBolt]

And how much movement do you expect to see on a 98mph fastball? The key is his offspeed stuff. If he can locate his change and slider to go with the speed of his fastball he'll keep hitters off balance.

See: Jonathan Papelbon. Jackson's best pitch is his slider, which isn't saying much, becasue he has no control over it.

[DBAHO]

This quote from SI

 

 

Heyman

There's really no need to trade JD now unless KW definitely comes out on top (or so at least he thinks) talent wise in a deal.

 

We've shedded enough payroll, so there shouldn't be a need to dump anymore $$$ anytime soon.

 

Still if KW could get a Carlos Carrasco or Wade Davis for JD, I'd think he'd pull the trigger, and try to sign a FA replacement on a short team deal.

[G&T]

If Dye gets traded then they will definitely pursue a top FA. Otherwise, I'd imagine you're right and the Sox have cleared enough to do what they want.