Dye to Reds Speculation

[witesoxfan]

Furcal had back issues, and I imagine one thing the Sox are trying to avoid right now is another player with back issues.

 

Also, the reason the Reds would make such a deal is because they believe they are close to competing...it's Walt Jocketty at the helm now, so I imagine he knows what he's doing. They'll almost certainly get Dye for two years and he'll be a big bat in the middle of the lineup.

[Balta1701]

Furcal had back issues, and I imagine one thing the Sox are trying to avoid right now is another player with back issues.

 

Also, the reason the Reds would make such a deal is because they believe they are close to competing...it's Walt Jocketty at the helm now, so I imagine he knows what he's doing. They'll almost certainly get Dye for two years and he'll be a big bat in the middle of the lineup.

With that young starting rotation and guys like Phillips, Bruce, and Votto...they're probably not wrong if they think they can compete this year.

 

The problem is, if I were the White Sox, I wouldn't give up Dye without getting one of those pieces that they need to count on this year.

[joejoesox]

Dye for Bailey would be f***ing stupid.

[beck72]

Sounds like Gavin Floyd on this write up:

 

http://www.baseball-intellect.com/Articles...mer-bailey.html

 

Bailey has upside-if he's healthy. He'd be a better get than Edwin Jackson. Bailey + another player for Dye? Sounds good

[elrockinMT]

This sounds a lot like a KW move. Trading for a pitcher that was a first round pick whose value has considerably declined. I wouldn't be surprised if this were to happen.

 

 

I don't care what salary Dye is due you don't trade his talent for someone with the track record Bailey showed. I hope this is just what it seems and that is an unsubtantiated rumor leading to nothing

[witesoxfan]

Gavin Floyd at the time of the trade was a huge question mark, and Jermaine Dye (probably) has more value than Freddy Garcia did at the time of his trade, considering he's coming off a better year and isn't a free agent after the season unless the team decides to make him one. You'll need quite a bit more than Homer Bailey.

[RockRaines]

Gavin Floyd at the time of the trade was a huge question mark, and Jermaine Dye (probably) has more value than Freddy Garcia did at the time of his trade, considering he's coming off a better year and isn't a free agent after the season unless the team decides to make him one. You'll need quite a bit more than Homer Bailey.

Yeah, a bit more meaning one other player. Dye is 35 years old and according to this board is below avg in RF. He is an injury risk and is at close to peak value for the rest of his career. This is the time to trade him, and getting one of the top prospects in baseball a year or two ago is good for me.

[iamshack]

From mlbtraderumors.com:

 

5:42pm: MLB.com's Scott Merkin notes that the Mets and Phillies are two of the six teams on Dye's no-trade list. Dye's agent, Bob Bry, has not been contacted by Ken Williams in regard to a possible trade to either club. The Reds don't appear to be on the list, though, so Williams would not need clearance to make a deal with them.

[beautox]

Dye for Bailey and Dickerson, and if they're not ready to move homer take one of their promising MI

Edited November 26, 2008 by beautox

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'd do this trade in a heartbeat. Bailey is a serious talent. I don't care what the numbers say.

[beck72]

Homer Bailey and Chris Heisey for Dye. The sox would have seen Heisey play in the Southern League this year. Don't know if Heisey can play defense. But he looks like he can hit for avg, get OBP and steal some bases, as well hit for some pop.

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=502317

 

Here's a write up from a Reds blog. Interesting note that they said Heisey might not fit into the crowded Reds OF in the near future.

 

http://redsminorleagues.com/2008/10/22/thi...t-chris-heisey/

Edited November 26, 2008 by beck72

[thedoctor]

dye actually makes a lot of sense for the reds. they need a righty power bat and a positive veteran presence in the locker room. although he's making a decent buck for the next year or two, the reds have some available cash considering they jettisoned griffey and dunn's salaries and now have mostly younger guys. i can see him being a good fit for them.

[Kalapse]

People, mlbtraderumors.com is not a source. They have no original news on the site just a nice collection of links to real news outlets, if you're going to post rumors please include the actual source and a link to that source. And ALWAYS include a link especially if you're going to copy and paste information off another site.

 

This is the original source: http://www.thelotd.com/lance/blog/2008/11/24/tuesday

 

And this is the original story:

Things I'm told

MLB sources tell me the White Sox and Reds have been involved in trade talks.

I'm told the White Sox initiated the talks. The potential deal involves the Sox sending RF Jermaine Dye to the Reds in exchange for Homer Bailey and another player.

What do you think?

Dye is a right handed run producer that plays RF. He will be 35 in January.

He leads all AL OF in HR's since 2005 with 137.

He has a gun for an arm, but does not move well in the OF.

Money wise: Here is his contract situation.

20009:$11.5M

2010:$12M mutual option ($1M buyout)

He has a limited no trade clause

Homer is 22-years old and has thrown just 81.2 major league innings.

[santo=dorf]

Thank you

[iamshack]

People, mlbtraderumors.com is not a source. They have no original news on the site just a nice collection of links to real news outlets, if you're going to post rumors please include the actual source and a link to that source. And ALWAYS include a link especially if you're going to copy and paste information off another site.

 

This is the original source: http://www.thelotd.com/lance/blog/2008/11/24/tuesday

 

And this is the original story:

 

Kalapse,

I eagerly look forward to your posts on this site, but let's not turn this into a PhD dissertation. We all understand what mlbtraderumors is, and even for those who don't, it's not like the "real" sources you are referring to are anything more than purposefully misleading leaks, absolute speculation, and/or old news that got distorted as it traveled down the grapevine.

 

The bottom line is that other than perhaps Ken Rosenthal, there simply are no credible sources when it comes to hot stove rumors. Sure, a link to the info posted is always preferred. A link to mlbtraderumors, which is a warehouse of rumors which also contains links to other sources, seems perfectly acceptable considering the currency in which we are dealing.

[Kalapse]

Kalapse,

I eagerly look forward to your posts on this site, but let's not turn this into a PhD dissertation. We all understand what mlbtraderumors is, and even for those who don't, it's not like the "real" sources you are referring to are anything more than purposefully misleading leaks, absolute speculation, and/or old news that got distorted as it traveled down the grapevine.

 

The bottom line is that other than perhaps Ken Rosenthal, there simply are no credible sources when it comes to hot stove rumors. Sure, a link to the info posted is always preferred. A link to mlbtraderumors, which is a warehouse of rumors which also contains links to other sources, seems perfectly acceptable considering the currency in which we are dealing.

Is it really too much to ask for people to name the original source and provide a link? One thing that has become a problem on here is the posting of material from another site without the inclusion of a link which is actually illegal but that's just a part of it. If you see something interesting on MLB Trade rumors or rotoworld or wherever just follow the link they provide, copy the address and include it in your post, it's not hard. This way people (well, I) won't have to scour some rumor site looking for a small blurb from some Dominican newspaper. Plus, and I think this may be the key, there won't be anything lost in translation like there has been so many times before.

[caulfield12]

Kalapse,

I eagerly look forward to your posts on this site, but let's not turn this into a PhD dissertation. We all understand what mlbtraderumors is, and even for those who don't, it's not like the "real" sources you are referring to are anything more than purposefully misleading leaks, absolute speculation, and/or old news that got distorted as it traveled down the grapevine.

 

The bottom line is that other than perhaps Ken Rosenthal, there simply are no credible sources when it comes to hot stove rumors. Sure, a link to the info posted is always preferred. A link to mlbtraderumors, which is a warehouse of rumors which also contains links to other sources, seems perfectly acceptable considering the currency in which we are dealing.

 

 

As for me, I'm just lazy...of course all of the stories are links to other stories, that's the lifeblood of that site. You don't go there for analysis from the board operators.

 

While I understand the posting (as an English and History teacher) and the technical correctness about sourcing, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is at least having a viable link to where the information came from...

 

I tend to copy-and-paste a lot, but I don't do it trying to represent it as "my analysis," or I'll put my comments juxtaposed in a different font, bold, italics, etc.

 

I remember in the early days of chisox.com, I had a continual running fight with the infamous "ncorgbl" about what percentage of an article could be copied and pasted...it got tedious. He would even count words in a total article, the words I cut from the original, and then try to report me to mlb.com so I could be "banned" for 3 days. Too funny.

[bighurt4life]

Yeah, a bit more meaning one other player. Dye is 35 years old and according to this board is below avg in RF. He is an injury risk and is at close to peak value for the rest of his career. This is the time to trade him, and getting one of the top prospects in baseball a year or two ago is good for me.

 

Dye hasn't been injured since we signed him away from the A's. The only time he has been hurt that I can remember was a freak accident with the A's when he fouled a ball off his shin and broke his leg. Not sure why people always say that he's an injury risk. BUT, I do think that his value isn't going to get any higher than it is right now so we should ship him out for the best haul we can get.

[iamshack]

Is it really too much to ask for people to name the original source and provide a link? One thing that has become a problem on here is the posting of material from another site without the inclusion of a link which is actually illegal but that's just a part of it. If you see something interesting on MLB Trade rumors or rotoworld or wherever just follow the link they provide, copy the address and include it in your post, it's not hard. This way people (well, I) won't have to scour some rumor site looking for a small blurb from some Dominican newspaper. Plus, and I think this may be the key, there won't be anything lost in translation like there has been so many times before.

 

I understand the point of what you're saying, but there is nothing illegal about linking information to mlbtraderumors.com. Mlbtraderumors.com sources their information, and puts that information into their own format and adds their own comments, which makes it a "compilation" which derives from other sources. Such a compilation is fully copyrightable in it's own right, and therefore, there is nothing wrong or illegal with using it as a source. Doing so is actually just as correct as sourcing the original source (if one actually does then take information from the original source).

 

Be that as it may, a good rule of thumb is to consider the information you want to share and what context you wish to share it in. If you feel that sourcing the original info makes more sense given that context, then by all means, use that. But I feel Tim at mlbtraderumors puts things into a good context already, so I usually just use his, and then if need be, add any of my own commentary that I feel is necessary.

 

Ok, sorry to get all serious and stuff.

Edited November 26, 2008 by iamshack

[quickman]

One thing to note...if the Sox do trade Dye, I'm going to be pissed that we traded Swisher. He could have taken over in LF, with Quentin moving to RF.

 

 

Fathom, Payroll will be down this year, see Economic downturn, Cut back in season ticket renewels, Team being re-tooled to go younger and faster. bailey is a good talent that has not produced, right up KW 's alley. He thinks he can catch lightening in a bottle every year. In addition I love freel for a leadoff hitter. That said and we unload Dye and 12 million, is great. next year Thome leaves, the year after that Konerko leaves, and Buehrle might be in there within the next two years. makes perfect sense to me.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

In case anyone is interested, here are some Reds fans' takes on the possible deal. I read through some of it and it seems like they'd welcome the deal.

 

Personally I don't know how I'd feel about it. If Kenny and his people think they can make whatever changes are necessary to turn Bailey around then I'd back it.

 

I wonder who the other player is though? Freel would be a good guess. He makes $4M next year and is a FA after that. Part of me would like the idea, part of me would hate it. Freel has had injury issues and appears to have some alcohol issues too. Then again, if he could stay healthy and put up a nice year at 2B or in CF, he could end up a Type A given his good year in '08 (albeit in limited playing time). Getting a future top of the rotation starter in Bailey and Type A comp in '10 for Dye would be an amazing steal for the Sox, but then again we could also be talking about a major bust in Bailey who s***s the bed in the Majors and 1/4 of a season from an overrated alcoholic utility player. Lots of risk here on both ends.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[ThunderBolt]

Now, that Votto and Alonso seem to be in their plans for the future, basically all of their first base prospects are fair game. I took a look and they have decent options down in AA, but with Allen and maybe even Fields here within two years we don’t really have a huge need.

[Jordan4life_2007]

In case anyone is interested, here are some Reds fans' takes on the possible deal. I read through some of it and it seems like they'd welcome the deal.

 

Personally I don't know how I'd feel about it. If Kenny and his people think they can make whatever changes are necessary to turn Bailey around then I'd back it.

 

I wonder who the other player is though? Freel would be a good guess. He makes $4M next year and is a FA after that. Part of me would like the idea, part of me would hate it. Freel has had injury issues and appears to have some alcohol issues too. Then again, if he could stay healthy and put up a nice year at 2B or in CF, he could end up a Type A given his good year in '08 (albeit in limited playing time). Getting a future top of the rotation starter in Bailey and Type A comp in '10 for Dye would be an amazing steal for the Sox, but then again we could also be talking about a major bust in Bailey who s***s the bed in the Majors and 1/4 of a season from an overrated alcoholic utility player. Lots of risk here on both ends.

 

Doesn't look that way to me. Most of the posts I read seem totally against trading a 22- year old pitcher with the talent/upside of Bailey for a 35-year old ( though a very good one) that they would more than likely have for one year. I don't blame them. Bailey has a total of, what, 80 innings in the majors under his belt? He's got PLENTY of time to get things figured out. If Kenny could pull this off I'd, well, I don't know what the hell I'd do. I'd be overjoyed.

 

Edit: After reading some more it seems that they have no problem trading Bailey, just not for Dye. It's amazing how impatient some fans are. The guy was the #9 ranked prospect in all of baseball just a year ago. Now he's hot garbage after 50 innings or so. I'm so glad fans have absolutely nothing to do with how a team is constructed. Go get 'em, Kenny!

Edited November 26, 2008 by Jordan4life

[caulfield12]

Fathom, Payroll will be down this year, see Economic downturn, Cut back in season ticket renewels, Team being re-tooled to go younger and faster. bailey is a good talent that has not produced, right up KW 's alley. He thinks he can catch lightening in a bottle every year. In addition I love freel for a leadoff hitter. That said and we unload Dye and 12 million, is great. next year Thome leaves, the year after that Konerko leaves, and Buehrle might be in there within the next two years. makes perfect sense to me.

 

Have you heard anything specifically about White Sox season ticket renewals and cutting payroll...or just the generic comments about the economy from KW, moving towards a younger and more athletic roster...I think it was the Barry Rozner article about having 75 cents to spend out of a dollar instead of 50 like it used to be.

 

[ThunderBolt]

It was just two years ago that Si had Bailey and Phil Hughes together as the next big things. Two inconsistent, injury riddled seasons and he’s done as a prospect? I’m not buying it. This reeks of the Gavin Floyd deal, and that’s why I love it.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Thunderbolt