Sox still interested in Willy Taveras

[Kyyle23]

Cocaine is a helluva drug

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

LMAO

[shipps]

Cocaine is a helluva drug

[beck72]

I decided that staying up and trying to figure out why Willy Taveras was bad last year was more important than sleeping. Don't need it anyway.

 

The surprising thing about the numbers though is that when you look at he often he ends an AB in 1-2 pitches, or 3 pitches, or 4+ pitches it all comes out very, very close and is perfectly in line with his career. The guy wasn't any less aggressive early in the count last year, he just was late in the count, which was a continuation of a slide that began in his second year. So whatever Hurdle and those guys told him, you can see that it only affected him with 2 strikes, and it hit him really, really hard in full counts. I think he was going up to the plate ready to swing, but when he ended up getting 3 balls he completely changed his mindset, probably because of what Hurdle or whoever their hitting coach had said. His AVG w/ a full count completely fell off the planet, and he had a lot of AB with a full count last year. If he lifts that, given that he improved every other bit of his game, he would have had a career year or close to it last year.

 

God damn, I feel like I'm like a Willy Taveras expert now. WTF?

It would be like the sox trying to change Alexei, who sees few pitches during an AB. You take away the natural aggressiveness of a guy who hits early in the count, and then when he falls behind, he's toast because he's got too much thinking going on. Taveras can get on base better than Alexei, with the bunts and will take more walks [though that's not saying a lot].

 

One of the things Ozzie and Co. do best is to simplify things for guys, talk to players in straight forward, crystal clear terms. Give a guy like Taveras clear expectations [be aggressive at the plate and on the bases, and bunt a lot], and then sit back and let his talent take over. Focus on what he does well, rather than tyring to overcorrect what he does wrong. You can make minor adjustments to a major league hitter instead of wholesale changes such as making an aggressive hitter become an On base machine.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It would be like the sox trying to change Alexei, who sees few pitches during an AB. You take away the natural aggressiveness of a guy who hits early in the count, and then when he falls behind, he's toast because he's got too much thinking going on. Taveras can get on base better than Alexei, with the bunts and will take more walks [though that's not saying a lot].

 

One of the things Ozzie and Co. do best is to simplify things for guys, talk to players in straight forward, crystal clear terms. Give a guy like Taveras clear expectations [be aggressive at the plate and on the bases, and bunt a lot], and then sit back and let his talent take over. Focus on what he does well, rather than tyring to overcorrect what he does wrong. You can make minor adjustments to a major league hitter instead of wholesale changes such as making an aggressive hitter become an On base machine.

Egg-zaktly.

[eickevinmorris]

No thanks. I'll take guys that can actually hit.

[Felix]

I don't understand why people here love bunts. Players that can bunt and can't actually hit aren't good players. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Tavares fits into this category.

[longshot7]

Cocaine is a helluva drug

 

boy, ain't that the truth.

[kwolf68]

No thanks. I'll take guys that can actually hit.

 

 

.320 average two years ago and is a career .285 or so...what the hell is your definition of hitting?

 

We need some speed on this team, station to station baseball should go the way of the Dodo Bird.

[Felix]

.320 average two years ago and is a career .285 or so...what the hell is your definition of hitting?

 

We need some speed on this team, station to station baseball should go the way of the Dodo Bird.

You realize he had a slugging percentage below .300 despite playing in Coors Field last year, right? I think that says everything. Well, that and his 80 career extra base hits in nearly 2000 AB despite hitting in two very well known hitters parks.

 

He's simply bad offensively. There is no reason the Sox should be seriously thinking of trading for him.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Felix

[NorthSideSox72]

Willy T is fine if he can be had for cheap, trade-wise.

 

But what he is, is Jerry Owens with a better arm. So the cheap part better be real cheap.

 

[maggsmaggs]

Willy T is fine if he can be had for cheap, trade-wise.

 

But what he is, is Jerry Owens with a better arm. So the cheap part better be real cheap.

He's also better in CF because he has been playing it longer, a better overall hitter (you can't deny his .280+ career batting average in the majors, something Owens probably can't do), faster on the basepaths and a better base stealer. Compaing Ownes to Taveras is silly. Taveras has proven to be a solid major leaguer player, a terrific one at points while Owens hasn't done squat.

[Felix]

He's also better in CF because he has been playing it longer, a better overall hitter (you can't deny his .280+ career batting average in the majors, something Owens probably can't do), faster on the basepaths and a better base stealer. Compaing Ownes to Taveras is silly. Taveras has proven to be a solid major leaguer player, a terrific one at points while Owens hasn't done squat.

He had a slugging percentage below .300 in Coors Field last year. I don't care how fast you are, if you can't hit at all in Coors, you won't be able to hit anywhere.

[R.J.]

Man, some people just love singles.

[T R U]

He had a slugging percentage below .300 in Coors Field last year. I don't care how fast you are, if you can't hit at all in Coors, you won't be able to hit anywhere.

 

Do you just choose to ignore anything besides last season?

 

The year before (In Colorado by the way) he hit .320 with a .367 OBP and a .382 slugging percentage

 

Can we please drop the he had a bad season last year so he must be garbage crap?

 

[bighurt4life]

OMG, Jesus in CF, God (TCQ) in LF.

 

HA! Now all we need is the holy ghost patrolling RF.

Edited November 29, 2008 by bighurt4life

[bighurt4life]

So if we don't make a move for Wily, then who is our leadoff next year and don't say Jerry Owens.

[maggsmaggs]

BTW, Taveras in U.S. Cellular Field since 2005: 21 at-bats, .333 BA, .417 OBP, 1.036 OPS and 9 SBs to 0 CSs. Granted limited at-bats, but maybe he likes the Cell.

[NorthSideSox72]

He's also better in CF because he has been playing it longer, a better overall hitter (you can't deny his .280+ career batting average in the majors, something Owens probably can't do), faster on the basepaths and a better base stealer. Compaing Ownes to Taveras is silly. Taveras has proven to be a solid major leaguer player, a terrific one at points while Owens hasn't done squat.

I don't agree that he's better in CF - other than the arm. I think Owens can definitely be a .280 hitter if he plays full time, but with no power - just like Willy. And his SB% is quite excellent, but Owens' is as well, they are fairly close. I don't see Taveras as being significantly faster or better on the paths, if he is at all.

 

I will agree however, that Owens is less of a known factor. We have his 2007 to work from, and his minor league numbers, and that's it.

 

ETA: On his SB%, interestingly, Taveras' numbers in his first 3 seasons were virtually identical to Owens' in 2007 in fewer games. Willy T then turned it up a notch in 2008 in the SB department. Owens has proven he can learn and improve, and Taveras was aberrantly good last year. Seems to me their career numbers are likely to end up very similar in SB%.

 

[T R U]

I don't agree that he's better in CF - other than the arm. I think Owens can definitely be a .280 hitter if he plays full time, but with no power - just like Willy. And his SB% is quite excellent, but Owens' is as well, they are fairly close. I don't see Taveras as being significantly faster or better on the paths, if he is at all.

 

I will agree however, that Owens is less of a known factor. We have his 2007 to work from, and his minor league numbers, and that's it.

 

Well if KW is interested in Wily T, and apparently has been for a while.. they obviously feel that he and Jerry Owens aren't the same player or there prolly wouldn't be any interest in him

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Well if KW is interested in Wily T, and apparently has been for a while.. they obviously feel that he and Jerry Owens aren't the same player or there prolly wouldn't be any interest in him

I put zero stock in rumors - KW may or may not be interested in Willy.

 

And as I've said, Taveras has a good arm (Owens' is very not good), and is more of a known commodity. If someone is asking me who I'd rather have, in a vacuum, I'd rather have Taveras. But if getting him means trading a lot of value to do it, then its not worth it, IMO.

 

[T R U]

I put zero stock in rumors - KW may or may not be interested in Willy.

 

And as I've said, Taveras has a good arm (Owens' is very not good), and is more of a known commodity. If someone is asking me who I'd rather have, in a vacuum, I'd rather have Taveras. But if getting him means trading a lot of value to do it, then its not worth it, IMO.

 

No one is advocating giving up a lot for him.. Lance Broadway was the name that was thrown around, why wouldn't we be all over this?

 

And you're right, he may not be interested.. but I think he is because its obvious this team needs some speed, so this is one rumor that I can put some stock in.. doesn't mean it will happen, but I think that KW is interested

[Felix]

Do you just choose to ignore anything besides last season?

No. He's a bad offensive player who has a career .668 OPS and 72 OPS+. Even when he had his "breakout season" in 2007, he had a 89 OPS+. He's not good. It's that simple.

[Felix]

BTW, Taveras in U.S. Cellular Field since 2005: 21 at-bats, .333 BA, .417 OBP, 1.036 OPS and 9 SBs to 0 CSs. Granted limited at-bats, but maybe he likes the Cell.

Means nothing. Timo Perez has a career .350/.458/.550 in 20 AB in Miller Park. Should the Brewers go after him?

[qwerty]

Taveras could not hit last year due to his leg injury.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Though he stole twice as many bases as his previous career high (34) at a much better ratio. Hm...

Edited November 29, 2008 by qwerty