Sox still interested in Willy Taveras

[knightni]

Over the course of an 162 game season, your legs are not going to be 100% a lot of the time even if they aren't "injured." If Willy's legs are even 85% he's absolutely worthless. So when you say speed doesn't slump, that's completely false because Willy will go through periods where his legs are dead. He's not a machine.

The man stole 35 in the light air of Denver and was only caught once.

 

It's really hard to breathe and run a mile in the air.

[caulfield12]

The man stole 35 in the light air of Denver and was only caught once.

 

It's really hard to breathe and run a mile in the air.

 

IT was all caused by adrenaline rushes (see Twilight) caused by the overenthusiastic Coors Field patrons who showed up as mostly empty seats for 2/3rds of the season when the Rockies were dead in the water.

 

[eickevinmorris]

Would you accept an OBP of .331, a BA of .283 and 50 SB?

 

Would you accept a .980 fielding % in center field?

 

Those are his averages in his career.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/taverwi01.shtml

Fielding percentage tells you absolutely nothing.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Again, the ability to either reach base or drive someone is much, much more important than the ability to steal a base. He is simply not a good offensive player.

Having a balanced lineup capable of winning in as many different ways as possible much, much more important than building a team strictly according to OPS.

 

I'm done arguing this for now. The stolen base gods are pleased by my incredible performance and curse all of you who deny the talents of Willy Taveras. For those of you who still refuse to understand the importance of a dynamic lineup, and the improbability of acquiring a better lead-off hitter without dealing the farm, I leave you with one last question: are you as prepared to defend Brian Anderson as you are to ignorantly brush off Willy Taveras? And are you ready, should the great Brian Anderson fail, to defend the indefensible Jerry Owens?

 

That is all (for now) and may God have mercy on you assholes.

[bighurt4life]

Fielding percentage tells you absolutely nothing.

 

It tells you how many errors a player makes compared to how many opportunities they have had. That's what it tells you . In addition, with tavera's great speed he would have many more opportunities than the average CF.

[eickevinmorris]

It tells you how many errors a player makes compared to how many opportunities they have had. That's what it tells you . In addition, with tavera's great speed he would have many more opportunities than the average CF.

Errors are wholly subjective and meaningless.

 

Also, speed does not equal range.

[bighurt4life]

Errors are wholly subjective and meaningless.

 

Also, speed does not equal range.

 

No, errors while they can be subjective tell you if they missed on a play that they should have made. And you cannot have range in the outfield without speed.

[knightni]

Errors are wholly subjective and meaningless.

 

Also, speed does not equal range.

I'm sorry.

 

I forgot my Proverbs 29:9.

 

I'm done here.

[eickevinmorris]

No, errors while they can be subjective tell you if they missed on a play that they should have made. And you cannot have range in the outfield without speed.

Not true at all actually. Owens is faster than Anderson, yet Anderson has much, much better range due to his ability to read the ball off the bat.

[eickevinmorris]

I'm sorry.

 

I forgot my Proverbs 29:9.

 

I'm done here.

Good riddance. You can cite bulls*** like fielding percentage all you like, but it doesn't make it a worthwhile statistic.

[caulfield12]

Not true at all actually. Owens is faster than Anderson, yet Anderson has much, much better range due to his ability to read the ball off the bat.

 

 

This is true, in a sense....quickness and getting good jumps are important to playing CF.

 

However, you need to have really great "closing speed" to get to many balls in the gaps or balls hit over your head. Anderson is very good going backwards, but not quite as good side to side.

 

But Anderson, while he USUALLY gets good jumps (not always), doesn't have the type of first step explosiveness and speed/burst to steal bases. It takes him a little longer to get started on the basepaths.

[eickevinmorris]

This is true, in a sense....quickness and getting good jumps are important to playing CF.

 

However, you need to have really great "closing speed" to get to many balls in the gaps or balls hit over your head. Anderson is very good going backwards, but not quite as good side to side.

 

But Anderson, while he USUALLY gets good jumps (not always), doesn't have the type of first step explosiveness and speed/burst to steal bases. It takes him a little longer to get started on the basepaths.

Not what I was getting at. Of course, defense is so so so so so so much more valuable than base stealing ability.

[caulfield12]

Doing the little things: The "2009 Bill James Handbook" is recommended reading. There's a fascinating section on baserunning, which points out the World Series champion Philadelphia Phillies ran the bases better than any other team — not because they had the fastest players, but because their players made the most of whatever speed they had.

 

James assigns a plus-minus number based on how often players went from first to third on singles, second to home on singles and first to home on doubles, among other things. Among the Phillies' ratings were Jimmy Rollins' plus-46, Shane Victorino's plus-34, Jayson Werth's plus-28 and Chase Utley's plus-21.

 

Compare that to these regulars with the Cubs: Kosuke Fukudome plus-25, Mark DeRosa plus-13, Alfonso Soriano plus-12, Mike Fontenot plus-12, Ryan Theriot plus-7, Aramis Ramirez plus-7, Derrek Lee minus-9 and Geovany Soto minus-9.

 

And these with the White Sox: Brian Anderson plus-12, Carlos Quentin plus-9, Jermaine Dye plus-1, Alexei Ramirez minus-1, Paul Konerko minus-7, Jim Thome minus-13 and A.J. Pierzynski minus-18.

 

Pierzynski is on the short list of the worst quantifiably bad baserunners in the game. His rating speaks to his lack of aggressiveness, yet he had eight baserunning outs. The only players who had as low a rating and as many such outs were Prince Fielder (minus-22, nine) and Ramon Hernandez (minus-22, nine).

 

I'll allow Bill James to make an argument for me here (and you could make an argument for the White Sox prying away Fukodome if the Cubs will eat half his salary)...we need more players here in the plus, not negative, category.

 

The one number that really stands out, and I'm not sure I can explain it, is how Alexei Ramirez would be behind Dye in this category. I couldn't watch any games this season at all (being out the country)...is Ramirez tentative on the bases? I've seen him a couple of times, I know he has very good speed, and is the fastest player on the White Sox, followed by Wise and Anderson. Was he held up by Cora a lot?

[eickevinmorris]

Doing the little things: The "2009 Bill James Handbook" is recommended reading. There's a fascinating section on baserunning, which points out the World Series champion Philadelphia Phillies ran the bases better than any other team — not because they had the fastest players, but because their players made the most of whatever speed they had.

 

James assigns a plus-minus number based on how often players went from first to third on singles, second to home on singles and first to home on doubles, among other things. Among the Phillies' ratings were Jimmy Rollins' plus-46, Shane Victorino's plus-34, Jayson Werth's plus-28 and Chase Utley's plus-21.

 

Compare that to these regulars with the Cubs: Kosuke Fukudome plus-25, Mark DeRosa plus-13, Alfonso Soriano plus-12, Mike Fontenot plus-12, Ryan Theriot plus-7, Aramis Ramirez plus-7, Derrek Lee minus-9 and Geovany Soto minus-9.

 

And these with the White Sox: Brian Anderson plus-12, Carlos Quentin plus-9, Jermaine Dye plus-1, Alexei Ramirez minus-1, Paul Konerko minus-7, Jim Thome minus-13 and A.J. Pierzynski minus-18.

 

Pierzynski is on the short list of the worst quantifiably bad baserunners in the game. His rating speaks to his lack of aggressiveness, yet he had eight baserunning outs. The only players who had as low a rating and as many such outs were Prince Fielder (minus-22, nine) and Ramon Hernandez (minus-22, nine).

 

I'll allow Bill James to make an argument for me here (and you could make an argument for the White Sox prying away Fukodome if the Cubs will eat half his salary)...we need more players here in the plus, not negative, category.

 

The one number that really stands out, and I'm not sure I can explain it, is how Alexei Ramirez would be behind Dye in this category. I couldn't watch any games this season at all (being out the country)...is Ramirez tentative on the bases? I've seen him a couple of times, I know he has very good speed, and is the fastest player on the White Sox, followed by Wise and Anderson. Was he held up by Cora a lot?

This works against your point. Of course baserunning is important, but being able to run the bases well far outpaces the ability to steal bases in terms of importance.

 

[caulfield12]

This works against your point. Of course baserunning is important, but being able to run the bases well far outpaces the ability to steal bases in terms of importance.

 

 

So, just to clarify, you want Brian Anderson to be the starting CFer? Owens? A platoon?

 

Please tell us who you would acquire to play CF, if not one of the above. And what players you'd be willing to give up.

Edited November 30, 2008 by caulfield12

[eickevinmorris]

So, just to clarify, you want Brian Anderson to be the starting CFer? Owens? A platoon?

 

Please tell us who you would acquire to play CF, if not one of the above. And what players you'd be willing to give up.

I'd play Anderson there. He's an elite defensive player who is more valuable than anyone else on the roster.

 

[greg775]

After that catch to beat the Twins, Anderson deserves his shot to start next season. Just say no to Taveras.

[caulfield12]

I think you guys are on crack cocaine.

 

Elite defensive player? I heard the same things about Aaron Rowand, too. Anderson is a better overall defender, but "elite" is not a word I throw around very lightly.

 

If Anderson does start, who in God's name is going to hit leadoff?

 

Alexei Ramirez with his Soriano-esque approach to the walk? Chris Getz/Betemit/Nix? I'll survive with BA as a starter, just to end this argument about his perceived greatness once and for all...but that means we have to go out and acquire Hudson, Roberts or Grudzielanek.

 

There's no way you can have Anderson, Ramirez or Getz/Betemit as your leadoff hitters.

[eickevinmorris]

I think you guys are on crack cocaine.

 

Elite defensive player? I heard the same things about Aaron Rowand, too. Anderson is a better overall defender, but "elite" is not a word I throw around very lightly.

 

If Anderson does start, who in God's name is going to hit leadoff?

 

Alexei Ramirez with his Soriano-esque approach to the walk? Chris Getz/Betemit/Nix? I'll survive with BA as a starter, just to end this argument about his perceived greatness once and for all...but that means we have to go out and acquire Hudson, Roberts or Grudzielanek.

 

There's no way you can have Anderson, Ramirez or Getz/Betemit as your leadoff hitters.

I honestly don't really care who leads off, it's completely arbitrary. And yes, Anderson is a very, very good defensive player. The only people who believe Anderson and Rowand are on similar levels defensively need their eyes checked; just because people were overzealous and misguided in their judgments with Rowand doesn't diminish Anderson's value.

 

In terms of in house options, I guess I really wouldn't care if it's Getz or Ramirez.

 

Also, I really wouldn't impugn anyone's walk rate if I was you, considering you're campaigning for Willy Taveras.

[T R U]

After that catch to beat the Twins, Anderson deserves his shot to start next season. Just say no to Taveras.

 

Well this post is completely worthless

 

Hell, why haven't we resigned Griffey yet? He made one hell of a throw to the plate in that game.. he deserves to fight for the starting CF job as well

[caulfield12]

While we're at it, sign Thome to an extension for his homer against the Twins, rip up Danks' contracts and give him more money and bring back Willie Harris (he got on base so Dye could drive him in!!!) and Geoff Blum. While I'm in a giving mood, let's give Contreras another two years because he was the best pitcher in baseball from August 05 through May 06.

[caulfield12]

I honestly don't really care who leads off, it's completely arbitrary. And yes, Anderson is a very, very good defensive player. The only people who believe Anderson and Rowand are on similar levels defensively need their eyes checked; just because people were overzealous and misguided in their judgments with Rowand doesn't diminish Anderson's value.

 

In terms of in house options, I guess I really wouldn't care if it's Getz or Ramirez.

 

Also, I really wouldn't impugn anyone's walk rate if I was you, considering you're campaigning for Willy Taveras.

 

You really believe Chris Getz is not only ready to play everyday, but that an untested rookie who many consider will end up as utility player/supersub can legitimately hit leadoff and not sink the entire offense in the process? Well, by the Powers of Caruso, I hope that gamble works, because the one with Swisher, a "tested," veteran player, sure didn't work out so well.

 

[eickevinmorris]

You really believe Chris Getz is not only ready to play everyday, but that an untested rookie who many consider will end up as utility player/supersub can legitimately hit leadoff and not sink the entire offense in the process? Well, by the Powers of Caruso, I hope that gamble works, because the one with Swisher, a "tested," veteran player, sure didn't work out so well.

Studies have shown lineup order means next to nothing.

[caulfield12]

What study is this? Please show a link or resource to this "research."

 

Doesn't it make sense to you that you want your top four hitters to get more at-bats than your 7-8-9 hitters? That batting in the earlier spots in the order will give them an additional 50-75 opportunities per season, maybe even 100 for a leadoff hitter.

 

Why doesn't Ichiro hit 9th for the Mariners then, if it doesn't matter? Why do managers have a L-R-L run or a R-L-R run to keep opposing managers from sticking with a lefty reliever or specialist for too long late in the games?

 

I'm kind of speechless here. I'm glad you aren't/weren't a manager, we might have had Mark Johnson leading off, followed by Royce Clayton.

 

What next? There should be no such thing as starting pitchers? Every starter should be designed for one inning each game and pitch 6-7 times per week???

Edited November 30, 2008 by caulfield12

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I don't want this man on the team next year.