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2009 Hall of Fame Ballot


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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:47 AM)
Yeah, I forgot about that one, but definitely his DH-ness will be a hinderence.

80 games in the field his last 15 seasons contributed to his longevity. Like I said, I love Harold. He was a sweet hitter, had a lot of huge hits. But..............289, .356 OBP average. If he's knees had remained healthy, he probably would have been a HOFer. But then again, if I could run a 4.2 40, I'd probably be a HOF running back.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:55 AM)
80 games in the field his last 15 seasons contributed to his longevity. Like I said, I love Harold. He was a sweet hitter, had a lot of huge hits. But..............289, .356 OBP average. If he's knees had remained healthy, he probably would have been a HOFer. But then again, if I could run a 4.2 40, I'd probably be a HOF running back.

 

All excellent points. So if he produced the same career totals, but only played 16 seasons, you would value that higher? :huh That it's so much career totals, but season totals?

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QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:00 AM)
All excellent points. So if he produced the same career totals, but only played 16 seasons, you would value that higher? :huh That it's so much career totals, but season totals?

I'm surprised your not arguing about the injustice of Fred McGriff not being in the HOF. He only had 78 RBI less than Harold in 1100 less AB. Slugged at a higher pct. Got on base more often. Why is he not on your list? He's lost his eligibility, which will soon happen to Harold.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:17 AM)
I'm surprised your not arguing about the injustice of Fred McGriff not being in the HOF. He only had 78 RBI less than Harold in 1100 less AB. Slugged at a higher pct. Got on base more often. Why is he not on your list? He's lost his eligibility, which will soon happen to Harold.

 

I do not believe I made a list.

 

I'm just trying to understand your criteria.

  • It seems to value, for example, 12 great seasons over 22 nearly great seasons.
  • You would rather a guy pick up 2,000 hits in 16 seasons than say 2,800 in 22 seasons.
  • It doesn't matter as much where they rank in all-time totals, but rather how they got there.
  • Several seasons leading the league versus twice as many, but only in the top 10.
  • Longevity doesn't factor in.
I tend to appreciate the skill and dedication required in career totals over percentages.

One or two season wonders many times lead the league. (Does Loiaza and his 20+ win season make him a better pitcher than say Buerhle?)

 

But yours is a very valid point of view, and shared by the majority of baseball writers.

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QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:36 AM)
I do not believe I made a list.

 

I'm just trying to understand your criteria.

  • It seems to value, for example, 12 great seasons over 22 nearly great seasons.
  • You would rather a guy pick up 2,000 hits in 16 seasons than say 2,800 in 22 seasons.
  • It doesn't matter as much where they rank in all-time totals, but rather how they got there.
  • Several seasons leading the league versus twice as many, but only in the top 10.
  • Longevity doesn't factor in.
I tend to appreciate the skill and dedication required in career totals over percentages.

One or two season wonders many times lead the league. (Does Loiaza and his 20+ win season make him a better pitcher than say Buerhle?)

 

But yours is a very valid point of view, and shared by the majority of baseball writers.

The only way you can play as long as Harold did is if your consistent like he was, and he was a good player. His 162 game average is .289 22 homers 93 rbi. That's very good. He averaged 129 games a year. So he averaged 17.5 homers and 74 rbi a season. That keeps you around making a nice check playing a game, but shouldn't put you in the HOF. If Harold Baines spent most of his career with a team other than the White Sox, I believe your opinion would be diffferent.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 07:14 PM)
I think you need to look at it with some time-period perspective. Find another player during roughly his career period that was as productive as he was in power numbers - I am not sure you can find any. Actually, one of them is also on the list - Dale Murphy.

The guy simply wasnt productive enough to be in the HOF IMO. He was a very good player, and is elevated by the fact he played his whole career for the Red Sox, and that they have been campaigning for him to be in.

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QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 11:25 PM)
Only guys id vote in are Tim Raines and Rickey Henderson, I also imagine Mark Grace will eventually get in but he isn't a first ballot guy.

:headbang :headbang

 

That would be my vote too. Quite simply the two best lead off hitters of all time (that I watched).

Edited by RockRaines
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I guess someone has to have the most hits and ribs without being in the HoF. Since that doesn't seem to be that big of a feat, I wonder why more guys don't play 22 years and rack up similar numbers.

 

Too bad he didn't juice a few seasons. Hit 50+ and be a shoo in.

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ok now maybe i should go post this on a cubs board, but id be accused of trolling...but people always want to know why i think ron santo is such a turd....well im posting two excerps from articles, about two separate potential HOFers who til now have fallen short that highlight their reactions...

 

Never one for self-promotion toward individual accolades, Baines simply feels honored to be included with his fellow standout teammates and opponents. Baines lists Edgar Martinez as probably the first DH to be elected, but without pointing to himself, Baines feels the DH definitely should be considered like any other position by perspective voters.

"I am more nervous about being psyched up," said Santo, who adds he is not inviting camera crews and media members to his house to hear the announcement as in the past. "If I get in, bring all of the cameras you want. But if I don't get in, I don't want to go through it. I just have a feeling it is going to take me a little while. I just want to be with my wife. That's it."
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Say what you want for Santo’s skills as a broadcaster, but his love for the Cubs has no equal. I really hope he gets in this year, he has the numbers, and he’s gone through so much in his life that he deserves at least a little comfort though the Hall of Fame. I'm not really sure what's not to like about the guy, other than him being a Cub and a total homer, but these are just my thoughts.

Edited by Thunderbolt
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