Cabrera offered arbitration

[Dick Allen]

Furcal hasn't ruled out joining the A's, but he wasn't willing to take a paycut to do it. While the A's were willing to give him the four-year deal he desired, the proposal didn't top $10 million per season. With the Giants also perhaps out of the mix, Furcal is left without an obvious suitor at the moment. He'll get his money, but he might have to settle for three years. As for the A's, they'll begin looking elsewhere for upgrades. They need at least one starter -- Randy Johnson is a possibility -- and they could always add another big bat, perhaps even Adam Dunn.

 

 

From rotoworld.

 

 

Makes you wonder what kind of contract is available to OC.

 

[caulfield12]

Furcal hasn't ruled out joining the A's, but he wasn't willing to take a paycut to do it. While the A's were willing to give him the four-year deal he desired, the proposal didn't top $10 million per season. With the Giants also perhaps out of the mix, Furcal is left without an obvious suitor at the moment. He'll get his money, but he might have to settle for three years. As for the A's, they'll begin looking elsewhere for upgrades. They need at least one starter -- Randy Johnson is a possibility -- and they could always add another big bat, perhaps even Adam Dunn.

 

 

From rotoworld.

 

 

Makes you wonder what kind of contract is available to OC.

 

 

Furcal is more of a speed-based player than Cabrera, who has proven much more durable and reliable. If you had the choice of Furcal at 3 years and $39 million or Cabrera at 2 years for $20 milllion, probably 20+ MLB GM's would go with the certainty of Cabrera over Furcal. Only the truly big market teams can take the risk of a Furcal deal going bad on them.

 

OTOH, you have the likes of Jack Wilson and Adam Everett garnering a prettty good amount of interest, and maybe even Uribe will as well, eventually.

 

There's definitely two different players in this market, the teams with money to spend and teams like the Tigers that are in cost-cutting/budget conservation mode.

 

If you're looking for a SS, though, Cabrera's the best option of the available FA SS's to quite a few teams. The other reason Furcal is drawing a lot of interest is because of his Type B status.

Edited December 6, 2008 by caulfield12

[santo=dorf]

even though I don't particularly care for some of his antics, i really did like him kicking dirt at ballfour. Ballfour was showing up Uribe and Cabrera wouldn't have any of it, gotta respect a guy who sticks up for his teammates.

He would've stuck up for his team more if he drove in that runner on third base. Uribe would've appreciated it more.

[fathom]

For everyone clamoring for OC to return, you fail to realize that this wasn't in the plans that KW had. Thus, who knows what other deals he wanted to make will be impossible due to the financial ramifications if OC returns. I assume that the Swisher and Javy trades weren't made with OC returns in mind.

[caulfield12]

For everyone clamoring for OC to return, you fail to realize that this wasn't in the plans that KW had. Thus, who knows what other deals he wanted to make will be impossible due to the financial ramifications if OC returns. I assume that the Swisher and Javy trades weren't made with OC returns in mind.

 

 

Or it could bring about a trade that Kenny doesn't really want to make in order to dump Dye's or Konerko's salary...assuming Cabrera's $9-11 million one year deal is back on the books. That, or trading Jenks.

 

Kind of frustrating, in the sense that we just won the AL Central, but all MLB teams except for the Red Sox, Cubs, Angels, Mets, Yankees and Red Sox will be making decisions based much more on the financial ramificationas, such as the Dodgers turning down a deal for Furcal for four years already, even though Torre really wanted to bring him back.

[santo=dorf]

Keep in mind that he was hitting in the LEAD OFF role!!?? He had a great season (above his career averages) considering the shizz he was going through in Chicago. I give him major credit.

 

He's a passionate player who loves the game. He played 161 GAMES!! I will miss him either way.

Great season???

 

His defense was worse than normal. His baserunning distracted our hitters and only stole 19 meanlingless bases. Put up an OPS+ of 84, and OPS of .705 (Uribe in 2007 was .682.) Led the American League in outs made with 509. Got in arguements with other teammates and pissed off the manager (obviously not the clubhouse leader as falsely advertised,) and he completely ignored the media after they reported him selfishly calling up the press box on multiple occasions to question a fielding error. How many times, error or not, did Cabrera blow it defensively leading up to a huge inning? Ask fathom for some help on that question.

 

Of course Cabrera did this on a $10 million salary and should be expecting a raise. f*** him.

[Dick Allen]

For everyone clamoring for OC to return, you fail to realize that this wasn't in the plans that KW had. Thus, who knows what other deals he wanted to make will be impossible due to the financial ramifications if OC returns. I assume that the Swisher and Javy trades weren't made with OC returns in mind.

For sure. It makes it even more silly he actually has to sweat this out, all for 2 draft picks chances are will not amount to anything. If he does refuse it, KW should thank his lucky stars and use the money OC would have received, draft 2 guys who slipped because of signability issues and pay them both over slot.

[caulfield12]

There are a lot of teams that took chances by offering arbitration, and nearly as big.

 

The Angels offered to bring back Jon Garland, although he's only a Type B FA. I guess it's a lesser risk due to the value of pitching in this market, and the fact that the Angels have 33-50% more money to play around with than we do in this current/future market. Still, if another team signed him, the Angels wouldn't have as much to lose as not offering a Type A FA.

Edited December 6, 2008 by caulfield12

[scenario]

Maybe if OC and Garland both accept arbitration... we could swap them again.

 

Sounds funny, but this year WE need the pitcher and they need a shortstop. The exact opposite of last year.

 

[ptatc]

I think a lot of people don't realize that KW has already told us that Marquez will be on the starting staff. I know alot of people don't like it but it follows KW's pattern. He traded a veteran not specatacular pitcher (Garland earlier, Vazquez this year). He acqured a pitcher who was once highly regarded but who regressed but who KW saw in the AFL and stated was MLB ready (Floyd then Marquez now).

 

KW may look for one pitcher but I think he has 4 inked for the rotation.

 

 

Arguements about how GF showed better numbers than Marquez and BLah blah blah do not need to fly. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it just reading KW tea leaves.

[fathom]

Great season???

 

His defense was worse than normal. His baserunning distracted our hitters and only stole 19 meanlingless bases. Put up an OPS+ of 84, and OPS of .705 (Uribe in 2007 was .682.) Led the American League in outs made with 509. Got in arguements with other teammates and pissed off the manager (obviously not the clubhouse leader as falsely advertised,) and he completely ignored the media after they reported him selfishly calling up the press box on multiple occasions to question a fielding error. How many times, error or not, did Cabrera blow it defensively leading up to a huge inning? Ask fathom for some help on that question.

 

Of course Cabrera did this on a $10 million salary and should be expecting a raise. f*** him.

 

Don't forget he was a terrible situational hitter, as he couldn't bunt and was awful putting the ball in play on a hit-and-run. Also, don't let Hawk fool you...he was not someone you wanted up with RISP and 2 outs. His .208 batting average and .542 OPS was disappointing as hell.

[fathom]

I think a lot of people don't realize that KW has already told us that Marquez will be on the starting staff. I know alot of people don't like it but it follows KW's pattern. He traded a veteran not specatacular pitcher (Garland earlier, Vazquez this year). He acqured a pitcher who was once highly regarded but who regressed but who KW saw in the AFL and stated was MLB ready (Floyd then Marquez now).

 

I agree, and the problem with this is Marquez was never close to being the prospect Floyd was.

[BaseballNick]

Great season???

 

His defense was worse than normal. His baserunning distracted our hitters and only stole 19 meanlingless bases. Put up an OPS+ of 84, and OPS of .705 (Uribe in 2007 was .682.) Led the American League in outs made with 509. Got in arguements with other teammates and pissed off the manager (obviously not the clubhouse leader as falsely advertised,) and he completely ignored the media after they reported him selfishly calling up the press box on multiple occasions to question a fielding error. How many times, error or not, did Cabrera blow it defensively leading up to a huge inning? Ask fathom for some help on that question.

 

Of course Cabrera did this on a $10 million salary and should be expecting a raise. f*** him.

 

Defense was worse than normal? What grounds are you basing this on? I don't know if we watched different teams last year, but OC was pretty damn stellar at SS making not only the routine plays, but often the spectacular plays as well.

His base running distracted hitters? I will NEVER buy this argument. I've played baseball for 20 years of my life, and when you're hitting, you focus on the pitch. JD has been playing ball a lot longer than me, and if he can't focus when someone's stealing a base, that's on him. You should be able to focus on a pitch if you're a major league hitter.

19 meaningless bases? He led the team, and by a wide margin. Way to justify your hatred for a guy by calling his team leading stats meaningless.

How many times did he blow it defensively? We won the damn AL Central in large part because of him.

 

Also, I thought it was pretty convenient that you "forgot" to mention Ozzie hit him out of his comfort zone (the 2 hole) all season long.

 

OC may be a jackass, but I find it absolutely comical that you and a lot of other people on this board won't acknowledge that he's a talented player, and a big reason why this team won the division. It's an absolute joke.

[EvilMonkey]

Defense was worse than normal? What grounds are you basing this on? I don't know if we watched different teams last year, but OC was pretty damn stellar at SS making not only the routine plays, but often the spectacular plays as well.

His base running distracted hitters? I will NEVER buy this argument. I've played baseball for 20 years of my life, and when you're hitting, you focus on the pitch. JD has been playing ball a lot longer than me, and if he can't focus when someone's stealing a base, that's on him. You should be able to focus on a pitch if you're a major league hitter.

19 meaningless bases? He led the team, and by a wide margin. Way to justify your hatred for a guy by calling his team leading stats meaningless.

How many times did he blow it defensively? We won the damn AL Central in large part because of him.

 

Also, I thought it was pretty convenient that you "forgot" to mention Ozzie hit him out of his comfort zone (the 2 hole) all season long.

 

OC may be a jackass, but I find it absolutely comical that you and a lot of other people on this board won't acknowledge that he's a talented player, and a big reason why this team won the division. It's an absolute joke.

If a batter can be expected to comcentrate when runners on base run, then they should be able to have that same concentration regardless of where they bat in the order. He sucked in RISP, and his range was suspect to me last year. I swear inthe first 2 months he short-armed at least a dozen balls.

[santo=dorf]

Defense was worse than normal? What grounds are you basing this on? I don't know if we watched different teams last year, but OC was pretty damn stellar at SS making not only the routine plays, but often the spectacular plays as well.

His base running distracted hitters? I will NEVER buy this argument. I've played baseball for 20 years of my life, and when you're hitting, you focus on the pitch. JD has been playing ball a lot longer than me, and if he can't focus when someone's stealing a base, that's on him. You should be able to focus on a pitch if you're a major league hitter.

19 meaningless bases? He led the team, and by a wide margin. Way to justify your hatred for a guy by calling his team leading stats meaningless.

How many times did he blow it defensively? We won the damn AL Central in large part because of him.

 

Also, I thought it was pretty convenient that you "forgot" to mention Ozzie hit him out of his comfort zone (the 2 hole) all season long.

 

OC may be a jackass, but I find it absolutely comical that you and a lot of other people on this board won't acknowledge that he's a talented player, and a big reason why this team won the division. It's an absolute joke.

It's not that I don't think he was an upgrade over Uribe at SS, it's that he's overrated and is NOT worth the money he received nor the money he will get in arbitration

 

In 140 PA's, Cabrera put up a line of .234/.305/.305 in his "comfort zone." He was atrocious in that spot.

 

Led the team in stolen bases with a whopping 19. So what? The Sox are a slow footed team. Look at the results of each of those stolen bases:

- J. Crain relieved B. Bonser

- D. Wise lined out to second

- O. Cabrera singled to right

- J. Dye flied out to right

- J. Thome singled to right, O. Cabrera to second

- O. Cabrera stole third

- P. Konerko grounded out to shortstop

Meaningless.

 

With two outs he would've scored on a single from second anyways. Sox lost that game 7-6

 

Bottom 9th: Chi White Sox

- O. Cabrera singled to center

- A.J. Pierzynski popped out to third

- C. Quentin struck out swinging, O. Cabrera stole second

- J. Dye flied out to deep right

 

0 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors

Detroit 6, Chi White Sox 6

Meaningless. Stole the base when Carlos struck out. Sox won that game thanks to Swisher's home run

 

Top 5th: Chi White Sox

- D. Wise walked

- O. Cabrera singled to left, D. Wise to third

- O. Cabrera stole second

- A.J. Pierzynski singled to center, O. Cabrera and D. Wise scored, A.J. Pierzynski out at second

- C. Quentin popped out to second

- J. Dye grounded out to shortstop

 

2 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors

 

[santo=dorf]

That SB helped him get into scoring position scoring on a single so it helped, but the Sox lost that game 10-6.

 

Bottom 1st: Chi White Sox

- O. Cabrera singled to right

- N. Swisher struck out looking, O. Cabrera stole second, O. Cabrera to third on catcher J. Saltalamacchia's throwing error

- C. Quentin hit by pitch

- J. Dye struck out swinging

- J. Thome homered to deep right center, O. Cabrera and C. Quentin scored

- P. Konerko flied out to left center

Another possible distraction leading to a K. Scored on a home run. Meaningless.

 

Top 4th: Chi White Sox

- J. Crede grounded out to first

- A. Ramirez grounded out to third

- O. Cabrera singled to left

- T. Hall hit for A.J. Pierzynski

- O. Cabrera stole second

- T. Hall struck out looking

 

0 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 1, Texas 2

Meaningless

 

- O. Cabrera walked

- N. Swisher flied out to center

- O. Cabrera stole second

- C. Quentin walked

- R. Ramirez relieved R. Tejeda

- O. Cabrera stole third

- J. Dye struck out swinging

- J. Thome singled to right center, O. Cabrera scored, C. Quentin to third

- C. Quentin scored, J. Thome to second on balk

- P. Konerko struck out swinging

 

2 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 7, Kansas City 6

Meaningless. He stole a base in the plate appearance when Carlos drew a walk. He would've scored from second on the single to RF. I'd say that's meaningless too.

 

Top 9th: Chi White Sox

- O. Cabrera walked

- B. Anderson sacrificed to first, O. Cabrera to second

- C. Quentin grounded out to third

- O. Cabrera stole third

- J. Dye struck out swinging

 

0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 2, LA Dodgers 0

Meaningless

 

Top 2nd: Chi White Sox

- D. Wise singled to left

- A. Ramirez struck out swinging

- M. Buehrle sacrificed to pitcher, D. Wise to second

- O. Cabrera singled to left, D. Wise scored

- O. Cabrera stole second

- A.J. Pierzynski grounded out to first

 

1 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 2, LA Dodgers 0

Meaningless. His single was much more important

Bottom 1st: Chi White Sox

- O. Cabrera singled to center

- A. Ramirez popped out to first

- C. Quentin struck out swinging, O. Cabrera stole second

- O. Cabrera stole second

- J. Thome walked

- J. Dye struck out looking

Yet another SB with the batter striking out. Meaningless

Top 8th: Chi White Sox

- G. Gross in right field

- A. Reyes relieved S. Kazmir

- N. Swisher struck out swinging

- O. Cabrera walked

- J. Thome hit for A. Ramirez

- J.P. Howell relieved A. Reyes

- O. Cabrera stole second

- J. Thome struck out looking

- O. Cabrera stole third

- C. Quentin struck out swinging

 

0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 0, Tampa Bay 2

Sox lost that game 2-0, he didn't score, and all the batters K'd in the inning (two of them while he was on base) but he did get himself in scoring position. Still, it only would've been 1 run, so I'm going to have to chalk that up as a couple more meaningless bases.

Bottom 1st: Chi White Sox

- O. Cabrera walked

- A.J. Pierzynski reached on bunt single to third, O. Cabrera to second

- C. Quentin flied out to center

- J. Dye struck out swinging, O. Cabrera stole third, A.J. Pierzynski stole second

- J. Thome grounded out to second

 

0 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors

LA Angels 0, Chi White Sox 0

Double steal, with the batter striking out. Meaningless

Bottom 9th: Chi White Sox

- O. Cabrera singled to center

- A.J. Pierzynski grounded out to third, O. Cabrera to second

- F. Rodriguez relieved J. Saunders

- O. Cabrera stole third

- C. Quentin walked

- J. Dye singled to left, O. Cabrera scored, C. Quentin to third

- D. Wise ran for J. Dye

- J. Thome struck out swinging

- D. Wise stole second

- J. Crede struck out swinging

 

1 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors

LA Angels 3, Chi White Sox 1

It might've been possible he would've scored from second (don't recall how hard that ball was hit to left,) but the Sox lost that game 3-1. Not very meaningful on the game, but was a factor with the run.

 

[santo=dorf]

Top 1st: Chi White Sox

- N. Swisher flied out to center

- O. Cabrera singled to left

- J. Thome struck out swinging

- O. Cabrera stole second

- P. Konerko walked

- J. Dye struck out swinging

 

0 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 0, Minnesota 0

Meaningless. Sox lost that game

 

Bottom 7th: Chi White Sox

- G. Aquino relieved M. Albers

- O. Cabrera walked

- J. Thome walked, O. Cabrera to second

- O. Cabrera stole third

- P. Konerko walked, J. Thome to second

- A.J. Pierzynski struck out swinging

- C. Quentin hit by pitch, O. Cabrera scored, J. Thome to third, P. Konerko to second

- D. Sarfate relieved G. Aquino

- A. Ramirez grounded into fielder's choice, J. Thome scored, P. Konerko to third, C. Quentin out at second

- B. Anderson fouled out to first

 

2 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors

Baltimore 1, Chi White Sox 6

He stole a base on a pitcher who couldn't find the plate. Very selfish, and he would've moved up anyways on the walk. Meaningless

Top 7th: Chi White Sox

- C. Quentin homered to deep left

- J. Crede homered to deep left

- D. Sarfate relieved J. Guthrie

- J. Uribe grounded out to first

- N. Swisher grounded out to second

- O. Cabrera singled to third

- O. Cabrera stole second

- J. Thome walked, O. Cabrera stole third

- P. Konerko struck out swinging

 

2 runs, 3 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 4, Baltimore 2

A couple of more meaningless ones, including one where he stole while the batter got ball 4.

Top 1st: Chi White Sox

- N. Swisher grounded out to second

- O. Cabrera walked

- O. Cabrera stole second

- J. Thome homered to deep center, O. Cabrera scored

- P. Konerko struck out swinging

- J. Dye struck out swinging

 

2 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 2, Cleveland 0

Completely meaningless. Don't even try to argue that it "set the tone for the season" or some Hawk Harrelson bulls***.

 

So because he only stole 19 bases, it made it quite easy to go through the game logs and see what impact they had besides someone's fantasy team.

 

From that list I see only two that arguably contributed to the run (scoring on a single from third instead of second,) 1 that did (got into second to score on a single) but the Sox lost that game by more than 1 run, and a LOT of batters striking out with him on the basepaths.

 

Meaningless.

 

[sircaffey]

I don't know why, but it always makes me laugh when people try to compare their amateur experience to the top level of professional sports.

[Fantl916]

calling his sb's meaningless is absolute lunacy. would you rather him sit on 1st and twiddle his thumbs? why dont you go through jose reyes's sbs and parse how many were meaningless. also, to call a sb a distraction when a batter k's is also lunacy. half of those situations arise when Ozzie calls for it (hit and run... yea baseball teams try to do those...), and the other half arise when someone like cabrera sees a situation where he's on 1st with 2 outs and a single isn't going to score him. why not try to get to 2nd so a single scores a run? in 75% of those instances you called meaningless had the batter not recorded an out and actually got a hit then cabrera would've scored thus not making his stolen bases "meaningless"

 

put it this way, a guy like cabreras job is to get into position to score as often as he can. he would be far more worthless if he simply sat on 1b all the time because stealing a base would be meaningless...

 

if you simply dont like him, that's one thing, say you simply dont like his attitude. but O-Cab is still a better option for this team than the 2b by committee we currently have setup, and is a quality player at SS. if you take away his slow start, he played very very well the rest of the year, and was absolutely instrumental to us making the playoffs...

[santo=dorf]

Perhaps he should be less slappy and hit for more power.

 

Why is it when a runner is on base he only distracts the pitcher, not the hitter?

 

Why should Cabrera get credit for those SB's that were on strikeouts if he was only running because Ozzie was calling for a hit and run? It's kinda like a consolation prize.

 

 

[elrockinMT]

So you are saying having it cost you a first round draft pick doesn't shrink OC's market in any way? Interesting.

 

Its also proper baseball business to accept arbitration if it is offered, without snide remarks about how you are destined to the bench which, if true, we all know isn't based on baseball decisions.

 

It looks like the Dodgers are after Jack Wilson now and he's willing to restructure his contract to get there, so the list of OC's possible suitors probably gets shorter, and the teams remaining probably are looking for bargains.

 

 

I don't think OC stays with the Sox, but if he does it's not the worse thing that could happen to us. My guess is there is still plenty of teams that could use a gold glove shortstop who can hit.

[Dick Allen]

Perhaps he should be less slappy and hit for more power.

 

Why is it when a runner is on base he only distracts the pitcher, not the hitter?

 

Why should Cabrera get credit for those SB's that were on strikeouts if he was only running because Ozzie was calling for a hit and run? It's kinda like a consolation prize.

Cabrera scored 93 runs. Podsednik was considered MVP-worthy when he scored 80.

[BaseballNick]

I don't know why, but it always makes me laugh when people try to compare their amateur experience to the top level of professional sports.

 

I'm not comparing anything. I'm wondering why JD's paying one bit of attention to anything on the basepaths when he's got a two strike count. If it was that distracting to have a runner in motion, then technically the hit and run would never work. I love JD, but I think it's a total BS excuse.

[fathom]

I'm not comparing anything. I'm wondering why JD's paying one bit of attention to anything on the basepaths when he's got a two strike count. If it was that distracting to have a runner in motion, then technically the hit and run would never work. I love JD, but I think it's a total BS excuse.

 

It happens all around baseball. Stealing a base with 2 strikes is usually frowned upon, as it will distract the hitter. Iguchi really struggled with this when Pods was around.

[BaseballNick]

Santo, I appreciate your research. I can't agree that SBs (especially those late in games) are meaningless. You'd have fielders' indifference if they were meaningless. Runners who don't have blazing speed need to pick their spots.