Cabrera offered arbitration

[fathom]

Santo, I appreciate your research. I can't agree that SBs (especially those late in games) are meaningless. You'd have fielders' indifference if they were meaningless. Runners who don't have blazing speed need to pick their spots.

 

More than the stolen bases, OC had the rep as being a great baserunner. However, he had quite a few bonehead moves on the bases that resulted in untimely outs.

[BaseballNick]

More than the stolen bases, OC had the rep as being a great baserunner. However, he had quite a few bonehead moves on the bases that resulted in untimely outs.

 

I'll give you that. Poor base running is unacceptable, and I can think of a few instances where he had brain cramps out there.

[sircaffey]

I'm not comparing anything. I'm wondering why JD's paying one bit of attention to anything on the basepaths when he's got a two strike count. If it was that distracting to have a runner in motion, then technically the hit and run would never work. I love JD, but I think it's a total BS excuse.

 

That's just the way your body works. You can't shut off your peripheral vision. Even if you're focused on your computer screen, if things around you start moving unexpectedly, it's going to take away from your focus on the computer screen. That's why golfers get so bent out of shape from camera clicks. Much like a hit and run, if that golfer knew the camera click was coming it wouldn't be such a problem.

[bigruss]

SBs arent necessarily meaningless, but the results of the ones that Cabrera had were not useful to the team. Whether it be the rest of the team not picking him up and scoring him, or his just stockpiling SBs in situations where it doesnt help (as in down a bunch or up a bunch).

[bighurt4life]

Hasn't the deadline for OC to accept passed??? anyone know what he did???

[Jimmywins1]

I think the deadline is 11pm CT today.

today as in monday.

[caulfield12]

Central Division

 

Chicago White Sox

 

What’s new: More than a few scouts were dismayed to see 19-year-old Cuban Dayan Viciedo out of shape at his Dominican workout last month, but they agreed he could hit, and the White Sox made him rich. It seems a longshot, but there’s some talk he could play third base or shortstop (ARE THEY SMOKING CRACK?)for the White Sox this season, or they could turn him into an outfielder.

 

What’s old: A rival GM revealed weeks ago the White Sox were shopping every decent-sized contract they had (and maybe he wasn’t exaggerating that much), and so far Kenny Williams has traded away Nick Swisher and Javier Vazquez, or almost $17 million off 2009 alone.

 

Winter meetings: And Jermaine Dye would make it about $28 million. He is being shopped and there would be plenty of interest. In fact, he’d make a lot of sense for the Mets. from yahoosports

 

 

Possible Cabrera AL destinations: CLE (move Peralta to 3B), MIN, Baltimore, Oakland...

Edited December 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[Jimmywins1]

Well.. he started as a SS...

[caulfield12]

Have you seen how big he is in that youtube video clip?

 

He makes A-Rod look like a dwarf.

[Dick Allen]

Today is the day Cabrera has to make his decision. I read where the Dodgers have little interest in him. I also read something where a baseball executive was astounded by what Renteria got with the Giants saying he couldn't have received more than 2 years at $6 mill a year anywhere else. I predict he accepts arbitration.

 

I just hope if he does accept and people here are pissed about it, their anger isn't directed at Cabrera. I don't like the any guy any more than anyone here, but if he accepts the White Sox offer, he has done nothing wrong. It wouldn't be acting like an asshole.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Dick Allen

[joejoesox]

I think Cabrera is going to accept arbitration

[caulfield12]

I'm still not understanding what the problem here is.

 

KW is doing everything possible to get him NOT to accept arbitration...within reason. Maybe you disagree with his methods or tone, or whatever, but he had a right to express the opinion that Alexei was his SS and that he wanted to play the kids at 2B.

 

It's not unlike the movie "Casino Royale," with KW as James Bond, haha.

 

He might lose this bluff, but ultimately, how does it hurt us? If we have Cabrera under contract for one season, worse things have happened. The fact is, it would give us more flexibility with our roster, and Alexei could move back to 2B or to the OF and the overall team would be better, not worse.

 

Or, instead of teams worried about signing him due to losing the draft picks, he trades Cabrera to a team whose SS goes down in spring training or whose "rookie phenom" they expected to be ready in 2009 isn't quite there yet (hello ATL OR MIL). So, in many ways, he would/could be just as valuable to another team in trade for ONE YEAR at a fixed/predictable rate rather than signing himfor 3-4 seasons and then also losing draft picks, too (in an unforeseeable economy).

 

I don't think has KW has any intention of keeping him on the roster for very long, but he also provides valuable insurance for Alexei Ramirez not being able/ready to play SS. KW did the responsible thing here, if he didn't offer arbitration, we wouldn't get ANYTHING back in return, right? Now, our team is either better or 2) our team is better because we can trade him for another part we want, like 3B, CF or a pitcher.

 

Ozzie is saying all the right things about him being welcomed back, it's classic "good cop," "bad cop." I mean, Ozzie threw the leader of his country, Chavez under the bus this week (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=255587&src=162) but didn't have one negative thing to say about Cabrera when he had the opportunity. Interesting, isn't it?

 

If we didn't offer him arbitration, everyone would be screaming bloody murder. The worst thing you can say is that KW "MIGHT" eventually have to trade Konerko/Dye/Jenks if Cabrera's on the roster for payroll flexibility, but he was apparently weighing all these options well before any decision that Cabrera makes about accepting the arbitration offer from the Sox. And that's a big assumption that we would not be able to find a single suitor for Cabrera...when we got the package we got back for Javy after the way he closed out the season. Say what you want about his OPS and OBP, Cabrera is usually around winning teams, and there are plenty of GM's who appreciate that more than the SABR fanatics. Everything will work out in the end, and all of KW's plans can be adjusted on the fly for changing circumstances.

Edited December 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[G&T]

I just figured I'd point out that, in fact, a player signed via arbitration cannot be traded until July 16. This is in the CBA Art. XX, sub B(6)(a) in case anyone wants to look at it.

Edited December 7, 2008 by G&T

[caulfield12]

Okay, fine...we pay Cabrera for 55-65% of the season and auction him off to the highest bidder, whose starter has gone down to injury.

 

What's the problem with that? Ramirez goes back to 2B, and it buys all of our middle infield prospects another half season to prove themselves, especially Beckham and Lillibridge, but also Getz, who I think would be more likely than Lillibridge to go down to AAA. Or one of the 2B prospects emerge and Alexei plays all over the field, but CF mostly, with some time at 2B as well, with Lillibridge backing up at SS.

 

Although there's also the possibility Lillibridge is the starting SS for Charlotte and Getz at 2B...with Nix on the MLB roster, although I think they would really prefer Lillibridge as their second utility player to go with Betemit.

 

The deadline is 13 hours away...exactly right now, 11 pm in Thailand, hahaha!!!!

Edited December 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[santo=dorf]

You can trade him earlier if you get his permission

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1114

[Bubba Philips]

I just figured I'd point out that, in fact, a player signed via arbitration cannot be traded until July 16. This is in the CBA Art. XX, sub B(6)(a) in case anyone wants to look at it.

[/quote If then he does accept arb we could trade OC at the deadline maybe by that time Viciedo or Beckham maybe ready. we could get some prospects back with the trade.

 

[caulfield12]

You can trade him earlier if you get his permission

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1114

 

 

Which would undoubtedly be given in this case by Cabrera...in all likelihood. It has been a long time since an arbitration decision was so filled with suspense for the White Sox.

[Dick Allen]

I'm still not understanding what the problem here is.

 

KW is doing everything possible to get him NOT to accept arbitration...within reason. Maybe you disagree with his methods or tone, or whatever, but he had a right to express the opinion that Alexei was his SS and that he wanted to play the kids at 2B.

 

The problem I have is if you don't want the guy to accept arbitration, you don't offer it to him, especially with current market conditions almost guaranteeing it would be his most attractive offer for at least one season, and no one in his tier getting more than 2 years. I really doubt KW would have been worried about all of soxtalk and other White Sox fans boards outrage if he didn't offer arbitration. I read post after post on this board describing how awful Cabrera was and is and will be. If those same people would have been upset KW didn't offer arbitration risking a return at even a higher salary for the opportunity of a couple of draft picks, (if OC is as awful as a lot of these posts claim, how could anyone expect him to get any decent offer) they are being hypocritical. It almost makes me wonder maybe the Sox really do want him back.

 

I don't know what kind of wrench his accepting would put into KW's master plan for 2009, if any. I would hope if he's interested in signing a guy like Furcal, it doesn't have any effect. The Mets were looking at Furcal to play 2B. Put him at 2b, OC at SS and make Ramirez the CF. Then next year you can shuffle again when OC leaves and is not offered arbitration.

[Dick Allen]

You can trade him earlier if you get his permission

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1114

But there is a big problem with that. There aren't teams that appear to want to pay him anything near what he gets in arbitration, plus he probably would refuse to go to a bad team. The teams looking for SS right now, are looking for cheaper options. When KW gets control, many teams will know if they are contending or not. You may find a spot for him, but only a contender, and they probably wouldn't give up anything at all, and might request the White Sox eat money, like they did with Ray Durham in order to get the great Jon Adkins. If they were willing to trade for him in January or February or whenever his salary is determined, they probably could sign him right now to a deal like that with perhaps an option. Face it, Cabrera from here on out, even if he remains a type A FA probably will never be offered arbitratiion again, unless a team wants to keep giving a 35 year old SS a raise.

[caulfield12]

Let's back up...we haven't seen any offers or what's available to O-Cab, because his negotiations haven't been public like with Furcal.

 

That doesn't mean he doesn't have any offers.

 

We do know ONE team was willing to give Renteria, who's valued as a lesser player and was run out of DET on a rail essentially, an average of $9.25 milllion per season over two years. Of course, some GM's and "insiders" say that was a crazy move by SF and they were essentially bidding against themselves.

 

We do know that Minnesota, Oakland, Baltimore, Cleveland and the Dodgers remain in the market for a SS, and possibly the Blue Jays. Oakland, Baltimore and the Dodgers look like good possibilities.

 

We do know that Minnesota has passed on Blake at 3 years and $20 million, so they're more likely to want to make a move at SS OR trade Beltre for Delmon Young, who they've put on the market because of dissatisfaction with his attitude, defense, baserunning and lack of power.

 

Sources say the White Sox moving Jermaine Dye is "overblown." He'll cost $11.5MM next year with a $1MM buyout for 2010 and teams in need of a corner outfielder can target Dunn or Bobby Abreu rather than give up prospects to the White Sox.

Orlando Cabrera has been made aware that Alexei Ramirez is the starting shortstop in 2009 and, for that reason, OC is expected to decline arbitration even in a depressed shortstop market.

Olney reports that Rafael Furcal's final contract request (from the A's) was 4 years, $52MM. He wound up rejecting the offer of 4 years, $35-40MM. mlbtraderumors

Edited December 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Let's back up...we haven't seen any offers or what's available to O-Cab, because his negotiations haven't been public like with Furcal.

 

That doesn't mean he doesn't have any offers.

 

We do know ONE team was willing to give Renteria, who's valued as a lesser player and was run out of DET on a rail essentially, an average of $9.25 milllion per season over two years. Of course, some GM's and "insiders" say that was a crazy move by SF and they were essentially bidding against themselves.

 

We do know that Minnesota, Oakland, Baltimore, Cleveland and the Dodgers remain in the market for a SS, and possibly the Blue Jays. Oakland, Baltimore and the Dodgers look like good possibilities.

 

We do know that Minnesota has passed on Blake at 3 years and $20 million, so they're more likely to want to make a move at SS OR trade Beltre for Delmon Young, who they've put on the market because of dissatisfaction with his attitude, defense, baserunning and lack of power.

Rosenthal in an article a couple of days ago, said the Dodgers have very little interest in Cabrera. Oakland was going 4 years at $9 mill a year for Furcal. I'm guessing they would go shorter and cheaper for Cabrera. Remember only the studs of this FA class have been offered more than 2 years thus far. Cleveland isn't going to spend 8 figures on a SS. Baltimore? I really doubt it. The Blue Jays laid off front staff personnel. They aren't going to overpay a soon to be 35 year old SS. That leaves Minnesota. a few things, they are known to be as frugal as they come. They build from the farm and probably value low first rounders as much as anyone, let alone giving them to a division rival. Also , the reasons you say they don't like Delmon Young are are looking to move him, are ironically the same issues OC has according to many posts in this thread.

[daa84]

boy wouldn't it be a huge slap in the face if we told OC alexei was gonna start at SS, so OC declines arb. and then we sign furcal.....haha..i am hoping thats what happens with Alexei either staying at 2b or moving to CF

 

Furcal SS

Getz 2b (probably not a 2 hitter right away, but if he gets on base at a .340 clip, hes as good as any candidate to hit 2)

Quentin LF

Thome DH

Dye RF

Konerko 1b

AJ C

Alexei CF

Fields 3b

 

 

[caulfield12]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8901804...ect-arbitration

 

More recent Rosenthal article on FA's rejecting arbitration.

 

One key note is the arbitration deals are one year, NON-GUARANTEED contracts. Something else to consider.

Edited December 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[sox1844]

I'm baffled by people saying that stealing 19 bases is meaningless. Imagine if just 4 or 5 of our guys could take 19 extra bases/year. Some of those are eventually going to translate to runs. Unfortunately we have the slowest team on earth.

 

You'd be calling him a hero if those steals meant something, just because they didn't doesn't mean every player shouldnt try to get in better scoring position EVERY time.

[santo=dorf]

San Diego got burned with offering arbitration to Todd Walker a couple of years ago and released him after spring training. He filed a grievance, but I don't remember what came out of it.