Cabrera offered arbitration

[Hatchetman]

I think your better off spending that $1 million in the Dominican, or somewhere like that.

 

 

They oughta spend it in both places. I'd like to see them whack $20 mil off the major league payroll and put it all into player development.

[Steve9347]

Um, actually that's the only thing that could make it a decent deal. That's also assuming the Sox use those picks to get somebody worth a damn.

Out of curiosity, did our pitching struggle last year? I seem to remember Juan Uribe playing most of the year at third base... do you think our lineup would have been better with Uribe and Fields over Uribe and Cabrera?

 

Sure, the guy wasn't great or anything, but I think last year Cabrera had more value to us than Jon Garland would have. We did win the AL Central after all.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Steve9347

[ChiSox_Sonix]

WTF are we talking about here?? Odds of getting a good player with a samwich pick are like 10%. Odds of getting a good player w/o a samwich pick are like 0%. A samwich pick gets $1 million tops. so you draft 10 of them for $10 mil and odds are you get one good player. Sounds like a good gamble to me.

 

I'm just trying to figure out whether you actually believe they are called 'samwich' picks

 

[Hatchetman]

I'm just trying to figure out whether you actually believe they are called 'samwich' picks

 

yeah, you know like "in between two things". like ham in a ham samwich.

[clyons]

I'm just trying to figure out whether you actually believe they are called 'samwich' picks

 

I believe the correct term is "sammich."

[Milkman delivers]

You're all mistaken. It's sangwich.

[santo=dorf]

People can't really be arguing that draft picks don't have value. That is just arguing for argument's sake.

That's true, but I'm not going to get a boner over getting them based on the Sox's history of draft picks over the past 10 years. Draft picks are more exciting and important to smaller payroll teams who live off their farm system. High payroll teams who cannot settle for rebuilding years don't care about draft picks as much. Look at the Yankees declining arbitrtation to everyone yesterday.

 

For once and for all can we please stop assuming that someone who doesn't/didn't favor the Cabrera acquisition thinks/thought that Garland should've been on the team? I didn't want either of them here for 2008. I'd rather trade Garland for a package of young players (or even something like the Garcia deal at the time) or a prospect that might be 1 year away. That way we wouldn't have to worry about paying million dollar signing bonus for guys 2-4 years away.

[DBAHO]

I feel a lot more comfortable with Doug Laumann making our draft picks than Duane Shaffer at least (based on their histories, and what the Sox did last season in the draft).

[ChiSox_Sonix]

yeah, you know like "in between two things". like ham in a ham samwich.

 

 

haha kinda like a sandwich huh?

 

 

 

 

[Leonard Zelig]

So if the Twins sign him, can we let them make our picks for us?

[almagest]

That's true, but I'm not going to get a boner over getting them based on the Sox's history of draft picks over the past 10 years. Draft picks are more exciting and important to smaller payroll teams who live off their farm system. High payroll teams who cannot settle for rebuilding years don't care about draft picks as much. Look at the Yankees declining arbitrtation to everyone yesterday.

 

For once and for all can we please stop assuming that someone who doesn't/didn't favor the Cabrera acquisition thinks/thought that Garland should've been on the team? I didn't want either of them here for 2008. I'd rather trade Garland for a package of young players (or even something like the Garcia deal at the time) or a prospect that might be 1 year away. That way we wouldn't have to worry about paying million dollar signing bonus for guys 2-4 years away.

So two draft picks doesn't equate to "a package of young players"? I also don't know how you can criticize Kenny Williams for not making a deal that might not have even existed. Speculating that one year of mediocre ol' Jon Garland was worth some nice package of young players is dreaming, and assuming that Kenny Williams wouldn't have considered taking Gavin Floyd-esque "projects with upside" for Garland is silly.

 

[Chisoxfn]

I hope he doesn't accept.

Honestly, I'd have no problem if he accepted. At a one year deal he'd be a bargain and the Sox could just opt to trade him and probably get as good of value as the two draft picks (the difference is, these guys would be a bit closer to the majors). Plus worse case you have an above average SS for another year.

[DBAHO]

Honestly, I'd have no problem if he accepted. At a one year deal he'd be a bargain and the Sox could just opt to trade him and probably get as good of value as the two draft picks (the difference is, these guys would be a bit closer to the majors). Plus worse case you have an above average SS for another year.

I wouldn't mind at all if Minny signed him actually, considering we've get their 1st round pick and a compensation pick.

 

And considering what it'll take for them to sign him, they won't have many $$$$ to use elsewhere.

[santo=dorf]

So two draft picks doesn't equate to "a package of young players"? I also don't know how you can criticize Kenny Williams for not making a deal that might not have even existed.

No two draft picks =/= young players because they will be more expensive (if they even sign,) have less experience, and cannot be immediate trading chips for a possible larger package.

 

Speculating that one year of mediocre ol' Jon Garland was worth some nice package of young players is dreaming, and assuming that Kenny Williams wouldn't have considered taking Gavin Floyd-esque "projects with upside" for Garland is silly.

Wait. Are two draft picks equal to two young players or not? Garland would've brought back compensation for the sandwich picks which evens out Cabrera's. So why are we even saying it's two picks when in reality it's a draft pick no lower than 16th in the draft at best. There's even a possibility that Cabrera's pick won't even be in the first or second round because the same team might sign another type A free agent.

 

 

[False Alarm]

No two draft picks =/= young players because they will be more expensive (if they even sign,) have less experience, and cannot be immediate trading chips for a possible larger package.

i think it's funny that you're complaining about draft picks being too expensive. don't hear that one much around here.

[almagest]

No two draft picks =/= young players because they will be more expensive (if they even sign,) have less experience, and cannot be immediate trading chips for a possible larger package.

If they don't sign, we get compensatory picks in next year's draft. Experience doesn't always outweigh potential. Who cares if we can't trade them right away? You don't base a player's worth on whether you can spin him off for someone else or not.

Wait. Are two draft picks equal to two young players or not? Garland would've brought back compensation for the sandwich picks which evens out Cabrera's. So why are we even saying it's two picks when in reality it's a draft pick no lower than 16th in the draft at best. There's even a possibility that Cabrera's pick won't even be in the first or second round because the same team might sign another type A free agent.

Garland is type B, Cabrera type A. We get two picks for Cabrera -- one between the first and second rounds, and either a first round pick after the 15th pick, or a second round pick, depending on who signs Cabrera. I also don't think we'd get a pick lower than the second round, for any reason -- where did you find that? Even if true, I think it's a little much to say that the Cabrera trade was bad because we might get a 3rd round pick in the draft for him if the team that signs him also signs another type A free agent.

[Balta1701]

If they don't sign, we get compensatory picks in next year's draft. Experience doesn't always outweigh potential. Who cares if we can't trade them right away? You don't base a player's worth on whether you can spin him off for someone else or not.

Garland is type B, Cabrera type A. We get two picks for Cabrera -- one between the first and second rounds, and either a first round pick after the 15th pick, or a second round pick, depending on who signs Cabrera. I also don't think we'd get a pick lower than the second round, for any reason -- where did you find that? Even if true, I think it's a little much to say that the Cabrera trade was bad because we might get a 3rd round pick in the draft for him if the team that signs him also signs another type A free agent.

The one thing that could drive our pick down is if the team signing Cabrera also signed another type A free agent who was more valuable than Cabrera. Then the other team that lost its player would get the top pick from the signing team, and we'd wind up lower down. For example, if the Nationals decided to sign both Teixeira and OC, we'd probably wind up with their 3rd round pick. The number of type A guys not being offered arbitration decreases the chances of that happening by a lot though.

[Balta1701]

By my count, there are currently 26 type A free agents out there. 15 were offered arb, 11 were not.

[elrockinMT]

If we get the two draft picks then the Garland-Cabrera deal is full of even more win.

 

 

Maybe we will sign Garland as a free agent pitcher? I personally think we should offer Uribe arbitration, but I can aslo see the other side of things. I am guessing we will go with our younger and cheaper players instead of spending 4 or 5 million for Juan Uribe.

[harfman77]

As far as comp picks go there is more value there than you would have gotten in a trade from another team for Garland, in addition you have the potential to pull in two A prospects, something you would not have been able to do in a trade.

 

2006 - Adrian Cardenas, Joba Chamberlain, Chris Perez, and Chris Coghlan

 

2005 - Travis Buck, Luke Hochevar (didnt sign), Clay Bucholz, Jed Lowrie, and Garrett Olson.

 

2004 - JP Howell, Gio, Huston Street, Marquez

 

2003 - Adam Miller, Matt Murton, Saltlamacchia, and Adam Jones

 

2002 - Greg Miller, Dan Meyer, and Mark Teahen

 

I didnt include 2007 or 2008 because it is too soon to tell anything for sure about those groups but there are some promising players in the 2007 group like Josh Smoker, Kyle Lotzkar, Ryan Dent, Michael Burgess, Justin Jackson, Eddie Kunz, Neil Ramirez.

 

I don't buy into the draft picks are garbage argument at all. The Sox have definitely had their difficulties in scouting and evaluating talent, but you have to feel pretty good about the organizations direction after the past couple drafts. You could not trade Garland for half the people on that list straight up, so in this case the picks are worth more than the player was.

[Kalapse]

The one thing that could drive our pick down is if the team signing Cabrera also signed another type A free agent who was more valuable than Cabrera. Then the other team that lost its player would get the top pick from the signing team, and we'd wind up lower down. For example, if the Nationals decided to sign both Teixeira and OC, we'd probably wind up with their 3rd round pick. The number of type A guys not being offered arbitration decreases the chances of that happening by a lot though.

I believe it goes in order of signing, not value. If the Nationals sign Cabrera on Dec. 15th and Tex on Dec. 30th the Sox would get Washington's 2nd round pick and the Angels would get their 3rd.

[R.J.]

Sorry if this has been answered - but what are the restrictions on taking a team's first round pick? I know a team can't lose their first round pick if it's in like the top 10 or 15, what's the official rule?

 

I saw the Giants were interested - but I know we wouldn't get their #6 pick through arbitration. What's the line?

 

What I mean is, who are we rooting for when it comes to signing Cabrera?

[Balta1701]

Sorry if this has been answered - but what are the restrictions on taking a team's first round pick? I know a team can't lose their first round pick if it's in like the top 10 or 15, what's the official rule?

 

I saw the Giants were interested - but I know we wouldn't get their #6 pick through arbitration. What's the line?

 

What I mean is, who are we rooting for when it comes to signing Cabrera?

You do not lose your #1 pick if it is within the top 15. If you're sitting at #16 and you sign a type A FA, you lose your pick.

 

Basically, go Diamondbacks, you know you want Cabrera. That Drew guy you have at SS isn't worth anything.

 

One question...the Mariners have an extra pick at #22 next year because they didn't sign their #1 guy last year. Anyone know what happens if they sign a type A guy?

[DBAHO]

From Robo-thal;

 

Risky business for White Sox

Free-agent shortstop Orlando Cabrera had a tumultuous season with the White Sox, sparring with manager Ozzie Guillen and right fielder Jermaine Dye.

 

Why, then, would he want to return?

 

Money.

 

The White Sox offered Cabrera arbitration to ensure that they would receive two high draft picks as compensation if he signed with another club.

 

Cabrera, though, could choose to accept the White Sox's offer, knowing he likely would receive a raise from his $9 million salary last season.

 

He then could go back into the free-agent market next winter, when the economy might be stronger — and the free-agent class at shortstop will be thinner.

 

The White Sox already have decided to move Alexei Ramirez from second base to short. Cabrera might prefer to leave a team that doesn't want him.

 

Then again, he also could return and request a trade. By offering arbitration, the White Sox diminished Cabrera's value in the free-agent market, forcing any team that signs him to lose a high pick.

[R.J.]

You do not lose your #1 pick if it is within the top 15. If you're sitting at #16 and you sign a type A FA, you lose your pick.

 

Ok that's about what I thought. So if the Orioles at #5 sign Cabrera, do we get two picks tacked on at the end of the first round? Two sandwich picks?

 

I think the Dodgers at #17 need a shortstop... come on guys, pick up the phone, bring OC to the OC.