Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:31 PM) NO, I don't read it that way at all. It's simply KW laying down the gauntlet...saying they will NOT welcome him back, that he would no longer have a position with Ramirez moving over and that he would have to fight for playing time with the young guys. It's not unlike the situation with Favre and the Packers, on a much smaller scale, of course. KW knows that OC has too much pride to play somewhere he's not wanted (even vilified by some) and where he wouldn't just be given the starting position. This is all posturing and PR, hopefully like the comments about going into year with Marquez and either Richard or Poreda as the 4/5 starters. Do you believe that will actually happen? KW is going to run into a problem with the Players Association if he does that. He makes a player less attractive to sign by offering arbitration then says, we don't want you back, even though your better than what we will have, if you accept arbitration, we will sit you. If he did sit him, it would also be a b**** slap to White Sox fans, clearly showing spite wins out over putting the best team on the field. If he doesn't want OC, he doesn't have to offer him arbitration. I don't care for OC, but I do know one thing, he won't be intimidated. It was a silly comment by an executive of a baseball team to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 f*** man, why does Cabrera hate us so much? Not only was he vastly overrated and really not that good, he was a "me" player. I qualify anyone that would call up the scorer during a game to complain about them giving him an error a "me" player. Now he's likely gonna accept arb? WHY!*@#*$Y@#(&*>? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I think they are both bluffing. Cabrera says he will accept... he won't. Kenny says he will bench him... he won't if Ocab accepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:40 PM) f*** man, why does Cabrera hate us so much? Not only was he vastly overrated and really not that good, he was a "me" player. I qualify anyone that would call up the scorer during a game to complain about them giving him an error a "me" player. Now he's likely gonna accept arb? WHY!*@#*$Y@#(&*>? Its not about hate, its about maximizing his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 12:41 AM) Its not about hate, its about maximizing his money. Yep, KW should have just been quiet, as now OC would have a stronger case with the Player's Association if this happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 When does OC have to decide to accept by? Is it this weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:42 PM) Yep, KW should have just been quiet, as now OC would have a stronger case with the Player's Association if this happened. I don't understand KW being pissed off about it. When the Yankees don't offer a player arbitration for fear he'll accept, you know conditions may not be so peachy. If Cabrera is the cancer that has been reported, I wouldn't want him on the White Sox, but if he's bad for the team when he's playing and doing well, how bad is he going to be when he's sitting because he accepted KW's offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:46 PM) When does OC have to decide to accept by? Is it this weekend? I believe its Sunday at midnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Interesting.....this is going to be a good match of chicken and regardless I don't care. OC will show up and play and do an above average job of it. Ramirez can slide to CF and you got Getz/Lillbridge/etc battling it out at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 03:16 PM) So in case I missed it, is there anything that prevents a player who goes through the artibtration process from being traded at any time? I think he can't be traded until June 15th unless he gives his approval. But if the one year deal is more attrative than what he's being offered, KW would probably have to eat some of the contract and get garbage back to move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:13 PM) I think he can't be traded until June 15th unless he gives his approval. But if the one year deal is more attrative than what he's being offered, KW would probably have to eat some of the contract and get garbage back to move him. Cabrera is NOT Uribe. The Tigers basically kicked Renteria out of town, and he still signed a guaranteed 2 year deal. For Cabrera at 34, 2-3 years is better than just one. And he has no interest in returning, likewise with the FO and Guillen having him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:28 PM) If KW sits an $11-12 million player on the bench next year out of spite because he accepted what was offered to him just for a couple of draft picks, he should be fired if he doesn't resign. Its been reported over and over how players like Cabrera are going to be the players hurt most by the economy. If KW missed it, shame on him. KWs comment was only intended to communicate to OC and his agent, loud and clear, that he should not accept arbitration. It's not any more complicated than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:18 PM) Cabrera is NOT Uribe. The Tigers basically kicked Renteria out of town, and he still signed a guaranteed 2 year deal. For Cabrera at 34, 2-3 years is better than just one. And he has no interest in returning, likewise with the FO and Guillen having him back. We will see. Seems like a huge gamble if you don't want the guy around for what could be a supplemental and 2nd round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 05:19 PM) KWs comment was only intended to communicate to OC and his agent, loud and clear, that he should not accept arbitration. It's not any more complicated than that. Ding ding ding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:19 PM) KWs comment was only intended to communicate to OC and his agent, loud and clear, that he should not accept arbitration. It's not any more complicated than that. Like I said before, those comments will not intimidate them. And if you know that is what those comments were intended to accomplish don't you think OC and his agent would as well? They don't care about KW. They don't care if the White Sox really don't want him. They have known that. They care about money. He's going to do pretty well for one year if he accepts arbitration, and if he plays decently will probably be the top SS on the market next year. As a White Sox fan, if OC accepted arbitration and the White Sox just plopped him on the bench and played guys like Getz and Nix instead, wouldn't you have a problem with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 05:27 PM) Like I said before, those comments will not intimidate them. And if you know that is what those comments were intended to accomplish don't you think OC and his agent would as well? They don't care about KW. They don't care if the White Sox really don't want him. They have known that. They care about money. He's going to do pretty well for one year if he accepts arbitration, and if he plays decently will probably be the top SS on the market next year. As a White Sox fan, if OC accepted arbitration and the White Sox just plopped him on the bench and played guys like Getz and Nix instead, wouldn't you have a problem with that? Not really. We've seen what OC brings to the table, I think that we can get better production out of Ramirez at SS and I want to see what Getz can do in a full season. I wouldn't be surprised to see him hit north of .270 with a good OBP. That's about all Cabrera does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:27 PM) As a White Sox fan, if OC accepted arbitration and the White Sox just plopped him on the bench and played guys like Getz and Nix instead, wouldn't you have a problem with that? The difference between the way you and I are looking at this is I don't believe it will ever go that far... So the question of whether they would actually bench Cabrera is purely hypothetical. Edited December 5, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:32 PM) The difference between the way you and I are looking at this is I don't believe it will ever go that far... So the question of whether they would actually bench Cabrera is purely hypothetical and nothing more. It might not, but KW's comments don't serve a purpose. Trying scare tactics? Intimidation? Come back here and we'll bench your ass. Its all about money. It usually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:27 AM) Like I said before, those comments will not intimidate them. And if you know that is what those comments were intended to accomplish don't you think OC and his agent would as well? They don't care about KW. They don't care if the White Sox really don't want him. They have known that. They care about money. He's going to do pretty well for one year if he accepts arbitration, and if he plays decently will probably be the top SS on the market next year. As a White Sox fan, if OC accepted arbitration and the White Sox just plopped him on the bench and played guys like Getz and Nix instead, wouldn't you have a problem with that? Especially considering ticket prices were raised again, it would be very frustrating to see 11 million dollars sitting on the bench because of a personnel standoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:36 PM) Did you really expect him not to comment when asked the question? Rogers asked it during the conference call, and Williams told him the plan if Cabrera decided to come back. Pretty simple. It is, but there are ways around the question. Something like "we will deal with that if the situation occurs". Not , he's sitting on the bench. They had problems with him for most of the year. Why not bench him then if Getz is suddenly better than him? His comments were made out of spite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:42 PM) I just don't see it that way, but it's not a surprise we don't see eye to eye on something Williams says. Telling a guy you offered arbitration to just so you can pick up 2 higher draft choices, so you are risking an 8 figure 2009 salary on, now is being told he's not good enough to play for the White Sox anymore because of Chris Getz, Jayson Nix and Brent Lillibridge., yet he was their primary leadoff hitter for the central champs of 2008. OK, his comments weren't made out of spite, just solid baseball decisions. Just like calling Frank Thomas an idiot was a well thought-out comment. Please. Edited December 5, 2008 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Cabrera will refuse arb. He'll likely get a 3 year deal for $8, 9 mill. per. When he's in his mid 30's, the years matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:47 PM) Cabrera will refuse arb. He'll likely get a 3 year deal for $8, 9 mill. per. When he's in his mid 30's, the years matter. I'm thinking 2 year deals right now seem to be the hot thing. He's going to try to max it out. The funny thing is, I really doubt Cabrera making $12 miilion in 2009 or $8 million, will have any affect on his life other than his ego. He's going to want more than Renteria gets, that's for sure. MLB guys are pretty good with their money. Its not like NBA players where I read 60% file for bankrupcy 5 years after retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 I still think that the best deal for him would be to sign a one year deal with a team that intends on starting him the whole season. That will give him a chance to build value and go for one more big deal next offseason while he's still young enough to get a 3-5 year contract. He would at the minimum probably be platooning if he signs with the sox this year, not an ideal place for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:46 PM) Telling a guy you offered arbitration to just so you can pick up 2 higher draft choices, so you are risking an 8 figure 2009 salary on, now is being told he's not good enough to play for the White Sox anymore because of Chris Getz, Jayson Nix and Brent Lillibridge., yet he was their primary leadoff hitter for the central champs of 2008. OK, his comments weren't made out of spite, just solid baseball decisions. Just like calling Frank Thomas an idiot was a well thought-out comment. Please. I think you're reading waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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