Vazquez & Logan Dealt to Braves

[SoxFan1]

That's extremely conservative, especially since he won't cost any draft picks.

 

OF trade market (as of now):

Dye

Damon or Matsui?

Melky Cabrera

Luke Scott is probably available

Adam Lind possibly if the Jays feel Snider is ready

One of Garko/Gutierrez/Francisco/Choo, etc.

Teahen

DeJesus maybe? For a lot...

Jose Guillen

Delmon Young, again for a lot I'm sure

Michael Cuddyer

Marcus Thames probably, Maggs is said to be off the table

Willy Mo Pena

Jeremy Hermida

Nate McLouth

Fukudome

Ludwick

Ankiel

Andruw Jones

Delwyn Young

Eric Byrnes

Chad Tracy or Connor Jackson?

Taveras

Spilborghs

Brian Giles

 

OF free agent market:

Dunn

Abreu

Griffey

Rivera

Ibanez

Garret Anderson

some other stuff I can't think of

 

The bolded guys are probably the best bets for power hitting OF's, but...

 

Ludwick is a big question mark given his one season of MLB success after being labeled a AAAA player

Ankiel is one year from FA and brings K rate and steriod baggage

Jose Guillen is a roided-up cocksucker

The Indians guys have talent and potential but you've got to be wary of those guys IMO

Cuddyer mostly blows

Damon and Matsui might not be even available and are getting up there in age

Delmon Young and McLouth are going to be very expensive, and Young has never hit for big power (yet)

 

I could go on, but looking at that list, it appears guys like Dye, Burrell, Dunn, Abreu, and Giles will be in demand because they are proven and either have favorable contracts or won't cost draft picks to sign. Pegging Abreu's contract that low is saying a lot.

Dunn/Taveras/Quentin would be a more than acceptable outfield, though I've always loved Hermida too.

[caulfield12]

Just curious....playing Devil's Advocate on KW.

 

Would anyone take back Chris Young to be the everyday starting CFer (maybe we signed Furcal too to hit leadoff, don't really want Young there)...for this package we have just received?

 

Would you rather have 3-4 fairly promising players/prospects/suspects or YOUNG?

 

Discuss at your own convenience.

Edited December 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Just curious....playing Devil's Advocate on KW.

 

Would anyone take back Chris Young to be the everyday starting CFer (maybe we signed Furcal too to hit leadoff, don't really want Young there)...for this package we have just received?

 

Would you rather have 3-4 fairly promising players/prospects/suspects or YOUNG?

 

Discuss at your own convenience.

 

Considering how awful our CF position has been the last few years, I'd take Young back for this package we received today.

[whitesoxfan101]

Just curious....playing Devil's Advocate on KW.

 

Would anyone take back Chris Young to be the everyday starting CFer (maybe we signed Furcal too to hit leadoff, don't really want Young there)...for this package we have just received?

 

Would you rather have 3-4 fairly promising players/prospects/suspects or YOUNG?

 

Discuss at your own convenience.

 

KW was going for the kill (a repeat) in 2006 with the Thome and Vazquez deals. It just didn't work out (although Javy was fine for us as long as the game didn't matter, and Thome has put up solid numbers), but I'll have a hard time ever blaming him for either of those moves.

Edited December 3, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[chiguy79]

I like this trade...hopefully KW/JR reinvest the saved $$s although I am very concerned this is a salary dump in disguise...between $30+mm in payroll already freed up and 10% increase in ticket cost we have plenty of money to spend.

 

We aren't going to get the big $$ players but there are going to be plenty of players looking for jobs as small market teams aren't going to be able to increase payroll at all. Unfortunatly the competitive landscape of the game will probably suffer even more and there are already quite a few teams that haven't been competitive for decades at a time (yes I realize TB/PHI played in the WS this year but face it many teams are out of the race by the end of April).

[RudyLawRules]

AJC up with story...

 

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/b...de_vazquez.html

 

Braves trade for White Sox starter Javier Vazquez

Power-hitting prospect Tyler Flowers headed to Chicago in return

 

By DAVID O'BRIEN

 

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

 

Tuesday, December 02, 2008

 

He ain’t Jake Peavy, but it’s a start(er).

 

The Braves agreed to a trade Tuesday that will bring them veteran Chicago White Sox starting pitcher Javier Vazquez and a reliever, a person familiar with negotiations said.

 

Enlarge this image

 

Bob Andres/[email protected]

Tyler Flowers is headed to the White Sox.

Do you like the Braves' trade for Javier Vazquez?

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In a six-player deal, the biggest Braves talent — literally and figuratively — going to Chicago is catching prospect Tyler Flowers, a 6-foot-4, 248-pound slugger who was the best power hitter in the Arizona Fall League.

 

The Braves were also expected to send infielder Brent Lillibridge, minor league third baseman Jon Gilmore and rookie-league lefty Santos Rodriguez to Chicago for Vazquez and lefty Boone Logan.

 

The deal can’t be finalized until the players pass physicals on Wednesday.

 

Vazquez, 32, has churned out at least 200 innings in eight of nine seasons and recorded at least 190 strikeouts in six. He slipped to 12-16 with a 4.67 ERA in 2008, after 15-8 with a 3.74 ERA in 2007.

 

The right-hander has a 127-129 career record and 4.32 ERA in parts of 11 seasons in the majors. He’s under contract for $11.5 million in 2009 and $11.5 million in 2010.

 

The Braves believe a move out of the hitter-friendly White Sox home park will help Vazquez, who has allowed 25 or more homers in six of the past seven seasons for four different teams.

 

Before details of the deal began to emerge, one White Sox scout said he was “praying” Chicago had gotten Flowers in the deal. White Sox general manager Kenny Williams lives in Arizona and lauded the strapping Braves prospect after seeing one of Flowers’ power-hitting displays in the fall league.

 

Flowers, 22, hit .387 with 12 homers and 23 RBIs in 20 fall-league games, after batting .288 with 50 extra-base hits and 88 RBIs in 122 games at Class A Myrtle Beach. With three-time All-Star catcher Brian McCann signed to a long-term contract, Flowers knew he might eventually be traded.

 

“I just didn’t think it would happen this soon,” the Marietta native said. “I was just talking to my parents. They’re a little upset about it, but I know it’s probably good for me, considering there’s a designated hitter [in the American League]. That’s another position I can possibly play. That’s definitely a plus.”

 

The Braves entered the offseason determined to sign two accomplished and reliable starting pitchers.Vazquez, steady if unspectacular, gives them the durable veteran they lacked in 2008 after injuries to John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Tim Hudson.

 

The Braves continue to search for a No. 1-caliber starter. They are one of six teams in negotiations with Toronto free agent A.J. Burnett, who won 18 games and led the American League with 231 strikeouts in 2008.

 

The Braves and Padres have also discussed a trade for 2007 Cy Young Award winner Jake Peavy, but there have been no discussions for 3 1/2 weeks since the Braves announced they were focusing on other options after the Peavy talks stalled.

 

Vazquez will probably slip into Atlanta’s rotation in the No. 2 or No. 3 spot before or after Jair Jurrjens, who was 13-10 with a 3.68 ERA as a rookie in 2008.

 

Vazquez has won at least 10 games for nine consecutive seasons and pitched more than 200 innings in every one except 2004, when he worked 198 innings while going 14-10 for the Yankees.

 

Logan has a 4-4 record and 5.87 ERA in 144 relief appearances over three seasons, including a 5.95 ERA in 2008 when he faded in the second half. He carried a 1.95 ERA in 36 appearances through July 9, then gave up 21 earned runs and 30 hits in his final 19 appearances.

 

Lillibridge’s prospect status slipped in his rookie season when he hit .200 with one homer, eight RBIs and 23 strikeouts in 80 at-bats for Atlanta, and .220 with 90 strikeouts in 90 games for Class AAA Richmond.

 

Gilmore, 20, hit .337 with four homers and 31 RBIs in 67 games for rookie-league Danville, but just .186 with one extra-base hit (double) in 102 at-bats for Rome.

 

Rodriguez, 20, piled up 45 strikeouts in 29 innings for the Gulf Coast League Braves while going 1-2 with a 2.79 ERA and five saves in 14 games.

More on ajc.com

[SoxFan1]

Just curious....playing Devil's Advocate on KW.

 

Would anyone take back Chris Young to be the everyday starting CFer (maybe we signed Furcal too to hit leadoff, don't really want Young there)...for this package we have just received?

 

Would you rather have 3-4 fairly promising players/prospects/suspects or YOUNG?

 

Discuss at your own convenience.

He's incredibly overrated by this board, IMO. The only real need he addresses for us is in CF. He's not a leadoff hitter at all. .315 OBP and a .248 BA isn't too hot, nor are his 165 K's. He has good power and speed, but was only 14/19 in SB. Pretty damn good defensively though.

[caulfield12]

Good info SEAL...

 

One great thing I hear? THe kid will do whatever it takes to get to the show.

 

The bad? We're already talking DH...for a prospect? I want people who can prevent the other people from scoring runs as well.

 

It's all good, I like the deal...I am not crying for joy, but am far from upset with this deal.

 

It's very obvious only Lillebridge has a shot at coming to Chicago for next season and he is the guy I am very happy about getting...a great acqusition and he's going to win a lot of people over, a typical KW move...grab a talented player kinda out of favor with current club. We got Quentin, Thornton, Floyd for a song and dance...they have been awesome (at least so far)...what Lillebridge follow suit.

 

Lillibridge has to be the favorite to be the starting 2B at this point, one would assume...Betemit's a defensive liability it seems as an everyday player, Nix has a ton to prove at the MLB level and so does Getz.

 

All things considered, we have REALLY good infield depth.

 

The big question though is SS...yeah, we have Alexei, and Beckham, and Lillibridge, and Betemit....but can any of them play the position adequately enough from a defensively standpoint? Of course, KW and most of the fanbase is betting on Alexei getting the job done, and I think that's an 85-90% probability he'll be perfectly fine over there.

 

 

[caulfield12]

He's incredibly overrated by this board, IMO. The only real need he addresses for us is in CF. He's not a leadoff hitter at all. .315 OBP and a .248 BA isn't too hot, nor are his 165 K's. He has good power and speed, but was only 14/19 in SB. Pretty damn good defensively though.

 

But, for winning it all this year, and only this year, would you have rather this package or Young?

 

That's the question also, because KW, until this trade at least, was typically more "win this season" oriented than long-term/long-range development.

 

Of course, he certainly has some new toys in the sandbox to move to get the impact player/s he really has his eye on I think.

 

Also, considering how much we have struggled to either get results from BA, sign a FA (Hunter, Fukudome, Rowand, etc.) or plugging in the likes of Mackowiak, Swisher and Griffey...I think his position on the field carries an additional premium with it that's hard not to acknowledge looking at the Sox CF results in 2006. 2007 and 2008.

Edited December 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Lillibridge has to be the favorite to be the starting 2B at this point, one would assume...Betemit's a defensive liability it seems as an everyday player, Nix has a ton to prove at the MLB level and so does Getz.

 

What in the world did Lillibridge do last year to make someone even think he'd be the starter over the other 3 guys?

[SoxFan1]

But, for winning it all this year, and only this year, would you have rather this package or Young?

 

That's the question also, because KW, until this trade at least, was typically more "win this season" oriented than long-term/long-range development.

 

Of course, he certainly has some new toys in the sandbox to move to get the impact player/s he really has his eye on I think.

If you're asking would I take him for the package we just got from ATL, then no.

[ChiCard]

I do understand that as a hitter he is a top prospect. I saw "C" by his name and I was like "YEAAA" then I read where he's not so good at defense...I know he can certainly develop that and if he turns out to be a catcher who can play good defense and hit a ton then awesome. AJP isn't much at throwing runners out, but he calls a great game and is one of the 'headiest' players playing the sport.

 

I'd love for Flowers to work a year under AJP, though I don't know if that will ever happen.

Lets not forget about Cole Armstrong. He played very well in the AFL and has good skills behind the plate.

[kwolf68]

What in the world did Lillibridge do last year to make someone even think he'd be the starter over the other 3 guys?

 

 

It's my belief he will be in competition for the job. I am VERY happy with Chris Getz and the Nix move was solid....so yea we have some talent there.

 

Is it possible Ramirez or Lillebridge could move to CF?

 

There are plenty of decisions to be made as things stand now...Kenny is just warming up I believe.

[bighurt4life]

Based on the AJC report it sounds like we got one stud (flowers) one reclamation project (Lillebridge) and then two other high ceiling prospects in this deal. That sounds like quite a haul for a pretty middling pitcher, I gotta give the edge to KW in this trade for sure.

[caulfield12]

But what skills would Lillibridge have in CF that would be consided "plus" tools for a MLB player at that position?

 

I think he will get a LONG look, simply because so far he's the only player capable of having an impact on the roster for 2009. And, for whatever reason, KW's trade acquisitions always seem to get their fair share of time before they are declared failures.

 

We've gone from having not enough depth to TOO MUCH, haha!

 

The following players will all be hard-pressed to make the Opening Day roster.

 

Lillibridge/Nix/Getz (Betemit seems assured of a spot)

Beckham

Jord. Danks

Shelby

Allen

Marquez/Egbert/Richard/Poreda/McCulloch/Broadway

Owens/Anderson/Wise

Viciedo/Fields

RP Nunez (from Yankees)

Link/Russell

Flowers/Armstrong

 

That's not a bad depth chart at all. We should have some very good teams in AA and AAA with legit prospects for the first time in awhile.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[scenario]

I've been thinking about this deal for a few hours now...

 

And I wouldn't be surprised if we end up flipping Lillibridge to Oakland if they lose out in the Furcal sweepstakes.

 

They've got boatloads of pitching and a hole at short.

 

 

[kwolf68]

But what skills would Lillibridge have in CF that would be consided "plus" tools for a MLB player at that position?

 

I think he will get a LONG look, simply because so far he's the only player capable of having an impact on the roster for 2009. And, for whatever reason, KW's trade acquisitions always seem to get their fair share of time before they are declared failures.

 

 

Speed and experience at the position. I have seen where he used to play CF...his move to SS may have been because he struggled there or maybe he was just good enough overall to make the switch.

 

He has excellent stolen base potential. If he can play solid D in CF, why not?

[Harry Chappas]

Roberts and Daniel Cabrera are attainable much more easily.

 

I think Roberts is a great one year fit until Beckham is ready. The rest of the options are meh.....

 

How about Roberts and Furcal with Ramirez in CF or at 3B with Anderson in CF.

[caulfield12]

Based on the AJC report it sounds like we got one stud (flowers) one reclamation project (Lillebridge) and then two other high ceiling prospects in this deal. That sounds like quite a haul for a pretty middling pitcher, I gotta give the edge to KW in this trade for sure.

 

 

Like the Pods/Lee deal, the biggest question is WHERE, and IF ANYWHERE, the money goes?

 

I think raising ticket prices 11% and drastically cutting payroll would not be well-received. There's obviously 2-3 more "pretty big" moves to be made to complete the puzzle.

[caulfield12]

Roberts and Daniel Cabrera are attainable much more easily.

 

I think Roberts is a great one year fit until Beckham is ready. The rest of the options are meh.....

 

How about Roberts and Furcal with Ramirez in CF or at 3B with Anderson in CF.

 

Don't move Ramirez to 3B, please.

 

First of all, it's the position he has played the least after SS/2B/CF.

 

He would be an average or below average offensive player there...up the middle, he's a much bigger asset and advantage over other teams.

 

Furcal AND Roberts together would be prohibitively expensive (based on what we're hearing from FO and anticipating further recessionary economic erosion)...and I doubt we get either one, to tell the truth. It's possible, but still unlikely.

Edited December 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[greg775]

The White Sox gained quality youth and erased $23 million from their payroll Tuesday when they tentatively agreed to trade veteran pitcher Javier Vazquez and left-handed reliever Boone Logan to Atlanta.

The Sox are expected to receive top catching prospect Tyler Flowers, speedy infielder Brent Lillibridge, Class A third baseman Jon Gilmore and 20-year-old left-hander Santos Rodriguez, according to a major-league source.

 

This is Gonzalez's article.

Call me a skeptic. I can't believe these Braves' prospects are as good as the article suggests in a trade for Javy and Logan. I mean Javy who looked horrible at the end of the year and worthless Logan?

To the person on here who is a minor league expert ... please give us the accurate lowdown on these guys we acquired.

[Kalapse]

Roberts and Daniel Cabrera are attainable much more easily.

 

I think Roberts is a great one year fit until Beckham is ready. The rest of the options are meh.....

 

How about Roberts and Furcal with Ramirez in CF or at 3B with Anderson in CF.

I'd say there's about a 60% chance Daniel Cabrera is non-tendered next Friday. I think they've reached the point with Cabrera that they'd rather just let him walk than pay him the ~$3.2M it would take to retain him in his final year of arbitration.

[scenario]

To the person on here who is a minor league expert ... please give us the accurate lowdown on these guys we acquired.

 

We did good.

 

[caulfield12]

Speed and experience at the position. I have seen where he used to play CF...his move to SS may have been because he struggled there or maybe he was just good enough overall to make the switch.

 

He has excellent stolen base potential. If he can play solid D in CF, why not?

 

 

I can see the Willy Taveras thread arguments transferred to another one if Lillibridge was named the starting CFer (with his 2008 season highlights/lowlights featured prominently).

 

I'm no BA fan, but I would rather have BA or Owens or a BA/Owens platoon than Lillibridge as the starter there. At least we know Taveras can steal bases, and has the arm/speed/range to play the position at much better than MLB average for center.

Edited December 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[R.J.]

If you move Lillibridge off short his value nose dives.