Vazquez & Logan Dealt to Braves

[WCSox]

I have mixed feelings about this. With all of the flack that Javy takes, the truth is that a guy who can anchor the back of the rotation and win games against the Royals and Rangers in May has significant value. Those wins get teams to the playoffs, and the Sox are better off with a sometimes-dominant vet like Javy than somebody like Clayton Richard in this role. With Contreras' return (and effectiveness) still up in the air, having Javy in the #4 slot is a big plus.

 

On the other hand, Javy has a long history of crapping his pants in pressure situations. He simply can't be trusted down the stretch. After Ozzie called him out through the media and Javy failed to respond, I got the feeling that he would be shopped aggressively this winter. Add that to the fact that the Sox owe him $23 million over the next two years, and it's not surprising that Kenny dumped him. Nor is it surprising that the Braves didn't give up much for him.

 

I'd like to believe that the 'spects that Kenny got from Atlanta will be used in a deal for Peavy, but I don't see it.

[caulfield12]

Tim Brown over at Yahoo is saying Thome and Konerko are available as well...

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-v...o&type=lgns

 

 

I think this has to be a case of "what would these guys bring back?" rather than realistic possibilities of a trade going down, especially with Jim Thome.

 

Konerko was thought to have a high likelihood to go if Swisher stayed at the beginning of the offseason...so I guess it comes down to who wants Texiera the most and if the Angels/Yankees are legitimately interested in Paulie as a fallback option?

 

With Jenks, Dye and Konerko all being put on the market, though, it certainly makes for a very entertaing and surprising offseason filled with suspense and intrigue.

Edited December 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[fathom]

With Jenks, Dye and Konerko all being put on the market, though, it certainly makes for a very entertaing and surprising offseason filled with suspense and intrigue.

 

And questions about whether or not KW's interested in competing in 2009. I swear there's some posters on here who'd rather have a highly ranked farm system than a competitive major league team. KW's improved the depth in this organization, but now it's time for him to start collecting legitimate 2009 MLB starting players.

Edited December 3, 2008 by fathom

[GoodAsGould]

And questions about whether or not KW's interested in competing in 2009. I swear there's some posters on here who'd rather have a highly ranked farm system than a competitive major league team. KW's improved the depth in this organization, but now it's time for him to start collecting legitimate 2009 MLB starting players.

 

We werent going to make the playoffs with the same core of players anyways, im more than willing to sacrafice one down season if it means many future good ones rather than a constantly 2nd/3rd place team.

[fathom]

We werent going to make the playoffs with the same core of players anyways, im more than willing to sacrafice one down season if it means many future good ones rather than a constantly 2nd/3rd place team.

 

We weren't? With the return of Quentin and a possible upgrade at CF or 2B, this team would be up there with anyone else in the division. And sacrificing seasons is not something that KW and Ozzie are fit to do. Not only that, but our fan base won't be too happy with the organization if they do go into rebuilding mode.

Edited December 3, 2008 by fathom

[southsideirish71]

And questions about whether or not KW's interested in competing in 2009. I swear there's some posters on here who'd rather have a highly ranked farm system than a competitive major league team.

 

A year ago, we were looking at this offseason with a whole bunch of old guys looking at a cliff we were about to jump off after 09 when the old guys are no longer under contract and our minor leagues had nothing to provide. We resign Uribe, and all looks lost. Then some moves start to happen. Now we look like we are reloading with some talent. We have enough depth now in the middle infield that someone should stick. It also gives us chits to spend when it comes to trade. If we had this type of talent in our system last year, we would have Cabrera on our team. Its not about having a great minor league system over a great major league system its about that once again teams value cheap talent under control over expensive free agents. I would rather have a medicore year this year, and reload for a very long run of top notch baseball. Over the status quo of overvaluing the fact that we won the division in a down year.

Edited December 3, 2008 by southsideirish71

[GoodAsGould]

We weren't? And sacrificing seasons is not something that KW and Ozzie are fit to do. Not only that, but our fan base won't be too happy with the organization if they do go into rebuilding mode.

 

Well all the same, Vazquez/Swisher/Boone werent exactly big contributers to our success last season anyways, so getting rid of them for young talent that could help in the future isnt a loss when projecting our chances of going to the playoffs next season. 2nd, the off-season is far from done yet, who knows what KW has left to do, if for instance he adds Duscesher(sp?) from the A's, we suddenly have a very potent rotation that could carry an anemic offense.

[RockRaines]

And questions about whether or not KW's interested in competing in 2009. I swear there's some posters on here who'd rather have a highly ranked farm system than a competitive major league team. KW's improved the depth in this organization, but now it's time for him to start collecting legitimate 2009 MLB starting players.

It has nothing to do with stocking the minor league system, but more in line with having a younger team core develop together and then using the extra money to fill those holes with FA acquisitions. To be able to do all of that we needed to get younger on the MLB team and more talented in the minors.

[DBAHO]

We weren't? With the return of Quentin and a possible upgrade at CF or 2B, this team would be up there with anyone else in the division. And sacrificing seasons is not something that KW and Ozzie are fit to do. Not only that, but our fan base won't be too happy with the organization if they do go into rebuilding mode.

I think the Sox can be seen to be "rebuilding on the fly" if they dealt JD and Bobby from here.

 

Basically, the Sox have shed about $16M from 2 guys who didn't contribute much at the end of the season, and weren't seen as core guys. Whether we got enough value for them is another story, but we've sacrificed about $30M in payroll from also losing OC, Crede and Uribe, and I'm hoping we use at $10M of that to sign a 2B/CF thru a trade or FA, but I'm not holding my breath.

[fathom]

A year ago, we were looking at this offseason with a whole bunch of old guys looking at a cliff we were about to jump off after 09 when the old guys are no longer under contract and our minor leagues had nothing to provide. We resign Uribe, and all looks lost. Then some moves start to happen. Now we look like we are reloading with some talent. We have enough depth now in the middle infield that someone should stick. It also gives us chits to spend when it comes to trade. If we had this type of talent in our system last year, we would have Cabrera on our team. Its not about having a great minor league system over a great major league system its about that once again teams value cheap talent under control over expensive free agents. I would rather have a medicore year this year, and reload for a very long run of top notch baseball. Over the status quo of overvaluing the fact that we won the division in a down year.

 

I think my comments dealt with people who are clamoring to trade Jenks for anyone listed on the AFL top 20 rankings, etc. I totally understand trading Vazquez, as there was no chance he was coming back after Ozzie called him out. I'd rather see the Sox hold on to Dye, as his production is so underrated.

[joejoesox]

I guess it's weird that I feel kind of sad that Uribe is going to be playing somewhere else

[fathom]

It has nothing to do with stocking the minor league system, but more in line with having a younger team core develop together and then using the extra money to fill those holes with FA acquisitions. To be able to do all of that we needed to get younger on the MLB team and more talented in the minors.

 

Up until a few hours ago, I thought the Sox were looking hard at Furcal and Hudson. However, after reviewing these recent moves, we have so much "depth" with regards to middle infielders that it wouldn't make sense to sign one of these guys.

[DBAHO]

I think my comments dealt with people who are clamoring to trade Jenks for anyone listed on the AFL top 20 rankings, etc. I totally understand trading Vazquez, as there was no chance he was coming back after Ozzie called him out. I'd rather see the Sox hold on to Dye, as his production is so underrated.

The only justification I can see to trading JD is if you got a very good young SP for him, and were able to sign a replacement in the FA market on a max 2 year deal.

 

Otherwise I'd hold onto JD also.

[scenario]

I guess it's weird that I feel kind of sad that Uribe is going to be playing somewhere else

 

Nah... you're allowed to feel that way... for a few minutes.

 

Beyond that is weird though.

 

[bmags]

Me too, I feel the returns people are looking for from Dye aren't enough. I know he's aging, but he has a reasonable contract and his production hasn't waned. But obviously, if the right price comes along, I'm all for it.

[GoodAsGould]

I think my comments dealt with people who are clamoring to trade Jenks for anyone listed on the AFL top 20 rankings, etc. I totally understand trading Vazquez, as there was no chance he was coming back after Ozzie called him out. I'd rather see the Sox hold on to Dye, as his production is so underrated.

 

Well as far as Jenks goes, I wouldnt be totally opposed to trading him if the right package of players were offered... but if I was KW I wouldnt actively be shopping him if that makes sense.

[RockRaines]

Up until a few hours ago, I thought the Sox were looking hard at Furcal and Hudson. However, after reviewing these recent moves, we have so much "depth" with regards to middle infielders that it wouldn't make sense to sign one of these guys.

I dont think they were looking at Hudson after Beck's AFL performance and the report of his price tag. They will make an FA signing to fill a hole though.

[WCSox]

I think the Sox can be seen to be "rebuilding on the fly" if they dealt JD and Bobby from here.

 

I'd deal JD before I dealt Bobby. JD's entering the downslope of his career and the Sox don't have anybody ready to step up into the closer role. Plus, that would allow Quentin to move to RF and Swish to play LF. They could get by with Anderson in CF, or possibly go after somebody like Taveras.

 

Unless Thome re-structures his deal, he won't be moved. Too few options with that NTC.

 

[bmags]

I guess it's weird that I feel kind of sad that Uribe is going to be playing somewhere else

 

I feel kind of sad that the legend of boone logan is. I'll never forget when he came up.

[Dick Allen]

Up until a few hours ago, I thought the Sox were looking hard at Furcal and Hudson. However, after reviewing these recent moves, we have so much "depth" with regards to middle infielders that it wouldn't make sense to sign one of these guys.

I don't know about that. Nix was released by Colorado. The reason is he isn't very good. Lillibridge hit .220 in AAA. You basically have Getz at 2B. KW has always had a hard on for Hudson, and even KW can't complain about money now so Furcal should be considered. They still don't have anyone to leadoff and Ramirez can always play CF or even LF if Dye is moved and Quentin goes to RF, when Beckham is ready if they really plan to keep Beckham at SS.

[DBAHO]

I'd deal JD before I dealt Bobby. JD's entering the downslope of his career and the Sox don't have anybody ready to step up into the closer role. Plus, that would allow Quentin to move to RF and Swish to play LF. They could get by with Anderson in CF, or possibly go after somebody like Taveras.

 

Unless Thome re-structures his deal, he won't be moved. Too few options with that NTC.

Swish ain't around no more.

[Chisoxfn]

A guy Kenny has wanted in the past is Abreu and the Yankees didnt offer arbitration.

I think we'll see the Sox trade Dye and than sign Abreu to a 2 year deal with a 3rd year option. The problem is a lot of these guys are going to be more bargain type of signings who don't sign for a while (when they finally realize the market they are expecting isn't out there). Abreu would be a stellar fit in LF and the 2 spot in the order. Sure he's on the downward portion of his career but he is still a well above average offensive player (who will post a very high OBP and hit for average).

[Chisoxfn]

Viciedo figures in here somewhere too as a power source for sure...

 

I don't think Abreu (age, will want $45/3 years) and Dunn (too one dimensional for KW's new "vision") are the best fits.

 

I think someone like Juan Rivera (if Dye is indeed traded) makes the best sense for 2 years in LF.

In the end I could see Abreu taking 10m a year. He isn't going to get 15, in fact, he might be surprsied and only end up getting 8M per season. A lot of these players are going to figure out that unless you are the top market guy there is going to become a supply/demand issue and not enough teams are going to be dangling a ton of cash and free agent values will fall on those not regarded as top 5 FA's.

[fathom]

I don't know about that. Nix was released by Colorado. The reason is he isn't very good. Lillibridge hit .220 in AAA. You basically have Getz at 2B. KW has always had a hard on for Hudson, and even KW can't complain about money now so Furcal should be considered. They still don't have anyone to leadoff and Ramirez can always play CF or even LF if Dye is moved and Quentin goes to RF, when Beckham is ready if they really plan to keep Beckham at SS.

 

I'm still of the opinion that Alexei will be a disaster defensively at SS.

[Chisoxfn]

Well if he somehow goes for 2 year's, $9M per then I hope it's with the Sox.

I've heard a couple baseball guys on talking about stuff and they believed Abreu would sign for under 10M. Hence my post a couple spots above where i indicated a 10M a year contract is something he'd probably jump at in a couple weeks. Right now he's asking for the moon, but those demands are going to come down hard and fast.

 

And at 2 years with an option, I'd be all over Abreu. If you are talking 3 years and 12M per season, than I'd look at Dunn. These same baseball guys didn't peg Dunn getting more than 12M a season and had him bottoming in the 8-9M per year range. Bottom line they kept saying a lot of players that sit around are going to end up getting hurt and there will be at least a few solid size names that end up taking substantially less than anyone thought.

 

Kenny should have money to jump at those guys, but you also hope he's able to still get deals on "his" guys.