Vazquez & Logan Dealt to Braves

[Leonard Zelig]

You dont think there is an arm on the FA market that is going to go for 3 years with an option? KW just got rid of bad attitudes in the clubhouse and you think he's going to bring one more back in?

 

Jon Garland's coming back?

[Milkman delivers]

I've missed well over 100 posts since I last read this thread. Has anything been finalized? Do we have exact names yet?

[Steve9347]

Any time you can trade a reliever, even a closer for an everyday player up the middle (C, SS, CF), you have to give it strong consideration.

Hey, someone with a brain!

[DBAHO]

From Rotoworld's AFL Wrap-Up;

 

Tyler Flowers - C Braves - DOB: 01/24/86

.288/.427/.494, 17 HR, 88 RBI, 102/98 K/BB, 8 SB in 413 AB (A+ Myrtle Beach)

.387/.460/.973, 12 HR, 23 RBI, 22/10 K/BB, 0 SB in 75 AB (AFL)

 

It's too bad he's probably not a catcher. Flowers tested positive for PEDs in 2006 and totaled 12 homers in 106 games in low-A ball in 2007, but the Braves still liked his power potential, and he made everyone take notice when he smacked 12 homers in just 75 at-bats in the Arizona Fall League after a nice season at Myrtle Beach in 2008. The former 33rd-round pick would seem to have legitimate 30-homer potential, and he also showed great on-base skills in the Carolina League. Defense is a problem. Flowers has a slightly below average arm and struggles to block balls in the dirt. He might be able to cut it as a first baseman if he has to move, but the Braves think fellow prospect Freddie Freeman is their long-term answer there. It's possible that Flowers will turn into trade bait. He could potentially go to All-Star Games if he lasts behind the plate.

[RockRaines]

Here's my scenario.

 

Sign Juan Rivera for 2 years at a reasonable contract for LF (there's your other bat).

Move Quentin over to RF.

Trade Jenks, Poreda and Owens/Anderson for J. Borbon from the Rangers, solving your leadoff and CF problem.

Trade Dye for a young starting pitcher and possibly a second prospect (could be Jackson, Bailey, etc., whoever KW has his eye on)

Keep Konerko and Thome together for one last season.

Get ready to sign a veteran FA pitcher for the 4th/5th spot.

Go with Fields/Viciedo/Betemet at 3B and Lillibridge/Getz/Nix/Betemit at 2B.

I think I just puked on my computer.

 

Rivera=terrible. If I wanted a sub .300 OBP and a sub .800 OPSfrom a corner OF'er, why wouldnt I fill that from within?

Jenks Poreda and Anderson for Borbon=an awful trade. Why would we trade one of our top spects and a good closer for the Ranger's #8 spect?

Edited December 3, 2008 by RockRaines

[caulfield12]

At first glance giving up Jenks and Poreda seems kind of crazy.

 

On the other hand, the Rangers really need a closer, and I'm not convinced that Poreda will ever be a starter. If you feel it's 50/50 he can develop a 3rd pitcher or cutter, then you have to hold onto him, because lefty starter with his arm are golden. Then again, there are reports that his delivery has some flaws, that it's certainly not a smooth, repeatable motion like Matt Thornton's and that he might be an injury liability.

 

Take all those things into consideration, I think you go out and get Borbon. I've watched Owens, Anderson, Mackowiak, Rowand, Griffey, Swisher, etc...trading away Webster, Rowand, Young and Reed. I just want to see a legit, everyday player with All-Star ability out there...Anderson has All-Star defensive ability, but I just don't see KW and Ozzie giving him a starting job with the White Sox again. And I wouldn't be shocked if he were traded, seeing the door swinging shut on Crede, Cabrera, Swisher and Logan...and some pointed and not so unsubtle jabs following those guys. The only one who's leaving on pretty "good" terms is Uribe.

[DBAHO]

If I'm giving up Jenks and Poreda, I want Carlos Beltran not this Borbon prospect (who I've never even heard of until now).

[Steve9347]

I'm still interested to know if we sent any cash with Vazquez. That hasn't been discussed yet, and I presume won't be disclosed until Javy passes a physical. If it's nothing, then what a steal this would seem like for KW.

[Steve9347]

From MLB.com, the names are finally official pending physical.

 

The two most recognizable prospects heading to Chicago are shortstop Brent Lillibridge and Minor League catcher Tyler Flowers, who greatly improved his stock while hitting .387 with 12 homers in 20 Arizona Fall League games this year.

 

A Major League source has also confirmed that the White Sox have also chosen Minor League third baseman Jon Gilmore and Minor League left-handed pitcher Santos Rodriguez.

[G&T]

I'm still interested to know if we sent any cash with Vazquez. That hasn't been discussed yet, and I presume won't be disclosed until Javy passes a physical. If it's nothing, then what a steal this would seem like for KW.

 

If any significant cash were sent then we'd probably know because the commissioner's office has to approve it. At this point, I'd imagine someone would have leaked it.

[Chisoxfn]

If I'm giving up Jenks and Poreda, I want Carlos Beltran not this Borbon prospect (who I've never even heard of until now).

Agreed. Poreda for Borbon would be a deal the Rangers would consider making. Why in god sakes would you also include Jenks. Thanks but no thanks.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

We have way too many prospects and a new stash of cash. What will KW do next?

 

This is fun

[RockRaines]

If I'm giving up Jenks and Poreda, I want Carlos Beltran not this Borbon prospect (who I've never even heard of until now).

Thats because he isnt all that good. Nor is Rivera. That scenario may pan out on OOTP or XBOX, but it doesnt make sense in the league today. KW is looking for young talent yes, but he is also shopping for some major league talent to add to this "younger" team.

[caulfield12]

I think I just puked on my computer.

 

Rivera=terrible. If I wanted a sub .300 OBP and a sub .800 OPSfrom a corner OF'er, why wouldnt I fill that from within?

Jenks Poreda and Anderson for Borbon=an awful trade. Why would we trade one of our top spects and a good closer for the Ranger's #8 spect?

 

 

Because of his 2006 season. Click on link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4956

 

When he's been healthy, Rivera has been a VERY productive player. And let's face it, KW signs players like this before he goes out to spend money on a Dunn, Ibanez, Burrell or Abreu. That's just not Kenny Williams. Signing Rivera is, because he would sign for only two years and he would be a very affordable option. Who would our internal candidates be for LF, if we traded Dye? Fields or Viciedo? We don't have anyone but Owens and Wise that could play at the big league level.

 

I don't care where Borbon is ranked...that doesn't matter to me. If it did, Iowa football would never win a single game based on their recruiting, except for possibly Northwestern on occasion. Quentin wasn't even going to make the team, and Alexei Ramirez was a combination of Ramon Santiago/Mario Mendoza and Miguel Cairo.

 

Poreda is only REALLY valuable if he's going to be a starter. Adam Russell was also one of our top prospects and he's worth basically nothing now. Of course, Poreda is left-handed and throws a tick slower than Thornton, but there's a very mixed sentiment about his abilities as a starter. As I said, don't make the trade if you feel he can develop a 3rd pitch that's at least something that can be used 10-15% of the time to keep hitters off your fastball.

Edited December 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[Steve9347]

Thats because he isnt all that good. Nor is Rivera. That scenario may pan out on OOTP or XBOX, but it doesnt make sense in the league today. KW is looking for young talent yes, but he is also shopping for some major league talent to add to this "younger" team.

We've only seen the deals leading up to KW's big plan.

 

I have a feeling this big plan is going to rock, and that setup deals are not yet done. Yet again, KW has proven that the trades he makes are those you don't hear about. Throw the Reds/Dye and any Taveras speculation out the window. Those are NOT happening.

[caulfield12]

Agreed. Poreda for Borbon would be a deal the Rangers would consider making. Why in god sakes would you also include Jenks. Thanks but no thanks.

 

 

Why would the Rangers want a LH reliever for someone who can be a starting CFer?

 

I think we're overvaluing Aaron Poreda way too much here, and undervaluing Josh Fields.

[RockRaines]

Because of his 2006 season. Click on link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4956

 

When he's been healthy, Rivera has been a VERY productive player. And let's face it, KW signs players like this before he goes out to spend money on a Dunn, Ibanez, Burrell or Abreu. That's just not Kenny Williams. Signing Rivera is, because he would sign for only two years and he would be a very affordable option. Who would our internal candidates be for LF, if we traded Dye? Fields or Viciedo? We don't have anyone but Owens and Wise that could play at the big league level.

 

I don't care where Borbon is ranked...that doesn't matter to me. If it did, Iowa football would never win a single game based on their recruiting, except for possibly Northwestern on occasion. Quentin wasn't even going to make the team, and Alexei Ramirez was a combination of Ramon Santiago/Mario Mendoza and Miguel Cairo.

 

Poreda is only REALLY valuable if he's going to be a starter. Adam Russell was also one of our top prospects and he's worth nothing not. Of course, Poreda is left-handed and throws a tick slower than Thornton, but there's a very mixed sentiment about his abilities as a starter. As I said, don't make the trade if you feel he can develop a 3rd pitch that's at least something that can be used 10-15% of the time to keep hitters off your fastball.

Apples and oranges. Quentin was a top prospect, much higher rated than Borbon. Trading Jenks for him is very stupid.

 

Rivera is not good. He is 30 years old, has been declining, and isnt much better if better at all than what we have on our club right now.

[R.J.]

Jenks and Poreda... for Julio Borbon. You're kidding me.

[Chisoxfn]

Because of his 2006 season. Click on link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4956

 

When he's been healthy, Rivera has been a VERY productive player. And let's face it, KW signs players like this before he goes out to spend money on a Dunn, Ibanez, Burrell or Abreu. That's just not Kenny Williams. Signing Rivera is, because he would sign for only two years and he would be a very affordable option. Who would our internal candidates be for LF, if we traded Dye? Fields or Viciedo? We don't have anyone but Owens and Wise that could play at the big league level.

 

I don't care where Borbon is ranked...that doesn't matter to me. If it did, Iowa football would never win a single game based on their recruiting, except for possibly Northwestern on occasion. Quentin wasn't even going to make the team, and Alexei Ramirez was a combination of Ramon Santiago/Mario Mendoza and Miguel Cairo.

 

Poreda is only REALLY valuable if he's going to be a starter. Adam Russell was also one of our top prospects and he's worth basically nothing now. Of course, Poreda is left-handed and throws a tick slower than Thornton, but there's a very mixed sentiment about his abilities as a starter. As I said, don't make the trade if you feel he can develop a 3rd pitch that's at least something that can be used 10-15% of the time to keep hitters off your fastball.

Rivera can also play all 3 outfield positions well and has a cannon for an arm. I've seen a lot of Rivera over the years and I know damn well that if he's healthy, he's a productive outfielder and would be a very nice value pickup. The Angels are planning on bringing him back though, but I think he'd welcome the opportunity from another team since the Angels have so many outfielders.

[caulfield12]

Apples and oranges. Quentin was a top prospect, much higher rated than Borbon. Trading Jenks for him is very stupid.

 

Rivera is not good. He is 30 years old, has been declining, and isnt much better if better at all than what we have on our club right now.

 

 

Once again, I want someone to give me a legitimate option for CF and leadoff...and what you'd realistically give up to get that player.

 

Rivera is a Guillen type of player...

[RockRaines]

Once again, I want someone to give me a legitimate option for CF and leadoff...and what you'd realistically give up to get that player.

 

Rivera is a Guillen type of player...

If by Guillen type of player you mean someone he would bury on the bench, then ok.

 

And KW will give you a legit answer within the month, so stay tuned. I bet it wont be Julio Borbon for a top closer and our best pitching prospect though.

[caulfield12]

Rivera can also play all 3 outfield positions well and has a cannon for an arm. I've seen a lot of Rivera over the years and I know damn well that if he's healthy, he's a productive outfielder and would be a very nice value pickup. The Angels are planning on bringing him back though, but I think he'd welcome the opportunity from another team since the Angels have so many outfielders.

 

Rivera is a FA now, is he not?

 

[R.J.]

So Juan Rivera is going to lead off and play CF after shattering his leg, posting a .282 OBP, and playing one game in center over the last 2 years? Cool.

[Chisoxfn]

Rivera is a FA now, is he not?

Yep. I wouldn't have a problem with the Sox picking up Rivera now. He could start in CF or slide over to one of the corner outfield spots or just be one hell of a 4th outfielder depending on what goes down with Dye and whether Ramirez gets moved to the OF.

[caulfield12]

If by Guillen type of player you mean someone he would bury on the bench, then ok.

 

And KW will give you a legit answer within the month, so stay tuned. I bet it wont be Julio Borbon for a top closer and our best pitching prospect though.

 

 

No, he's the type of player (unlike Swisher and Cabrera) who would fit in perfectly with our current clubhouse.

 

Best pitching prospect? Well, recently, that's been the likes of Lance Broadway or Adam Russell. The jury is still out on Mr. Poreda. I hope he makes it as a starter and becomes the next Scott Kazmir and we forget about Porcello for a week or two. But I'm not counting my chickens until they're hatched here.