Pre Trade Vazquez Discussion

[EvilJester99]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...8&fext=.jsp Any thoughts on what the Sox could get for him?

[DukeNukeEm]

I have these dreams where Yunel Escobar plays SS for the White Sox.

 

Never want to ever wake up.

[knightni]

During a live chat with MLB.com last week, Braves general manager Frank Wren said that he has had some discussions with White Sox GM Kenny Williams. It's believed these discussions included inquiries about veteran outfielder Jermaine Dye and right-hander Javier Vazquez -- two players who could help solve Wren's primary offseason needs.

[knightni]

I have these dreams where Yunel Escobar plays SS for the White Sox.

 

Never want to ever wake up.

 

Cocaine's a hell of a drug.

[BearSox]

Yunel Escobar, and it's a deal!

[Kyyle23]

Would any object to flipping Escobar for Peavy?

[Wanne]

Yunel Escobar, and it's a deal!

 

Or Tommy Hanson.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Or Tommy Hanson.

Escobar and Hanson would be pretty nice. Throw in Gorkys and Reyes and the Braves can have Javy, Dye, Bobby, and Kenny's own son - literally, he's in our organization.

[Jimmywins1]

Escobar + Morton for Javy and JD?

[BearSox]

In all seriousness though, I wouldn't mind getting Mike Gonzalez. I remember when he was with the Pirates he had a very live arm, but he got injured after he was traded to the Braves. If he's healthy and is showing some of that pop he did with the Pirates, I wouldn't mind getting him as part of a package.

[103 mph screwball]

I have said it numerous times that the Braves make a ton of sense, especially if they miss out on the Peavy sweepstakes.

 

Kelly Johnson could be a very likely target as well.

 

Kelly Johnson strikes out a bit too much, but he might fill the number 2 hitter void.

[kwill]

1) This could have been leaked by Atlanta to speed up the Peavy deal and try to use the Sox as leverage.

2) The trade I think would be great if Schafer+ Gonzalex for Javy and Jenks. This would cut down on cost

by 12 million dollars while building for the future.

[whitesoxbrian]

I'd take Soriano. He's been a sub 3 ERA guy over his career.

[caulfield12]

Can we trust Soriano's health though? We already have Dotel and Linebrink that are iffy, and speculation when/if Jenks might break down at some point. Thornton is the only pitcher in the pen who looks to have a 95% chance of NOT getting injured.

 

I think Johnson is more likely than Escobar. I've heard Gregor Blanco's name thrown out for CF, although, like Johnson, he's not one of their TOP prospects...probably a member of the second tier.

 

Gonzalez would be nice...does that mean we're going to re-examine trading Jenks and installing Dotel/Gonzalez/Thornton/Link as the new closer...or closer by committee approach?

 

I think Escobar is a little ambitios if it's JUST Dye...but you add Vazquez/Jenks into the mix, then anything becomes possible. Once again with JD, a lot depends on his wilingness to stay for two years. He's a former Brave, and while he was hurt/disappointed to be traded, I don't think he would resist a trade there either, because the NL's weaker pitching would be tempting.

 

 

[bighurt4life]

We're all forgetting that the Braves have a glut of CF prospects, most of whom are highly regarded. I would have to think that any trade with the Braves would be centered around whichever one Kenny likes best or is the closest to the majors.

[caulfield12]

We're all forgetting that the Braves have a glut of CF prospects, most of whom are highly regarded. I would have to think that any trade with the Braves would be centered around whichever one Kenny likes best or is the closest to the majors.

 

1) Jason Heyward, OF, Grade A-: A personal favorite, though he actually hit fewer homers than expected. Broad base of skills.

2) Frederick Freeman, 1B, Grade B+: Debating whether or not to move him up to A-. Not as broad a skill base as Heyward, but power and youth stand out.

3) Thomas Hanson, RHP, Grade B+: Looks good to me, though will need some Triple-A to put on the finishing touches. Number Two starter ceiling.

4) Jordan Schafer, OF, Grade B+: I should have put him on the Rotowire Top 100 list. Will be in the 50/50 for the book. Power, speed, defense, OBP, and played well without the juice.

5) Tyler Flowers, C, Grade B: Love the power and walks, main question is glove.

6) Cole Rohrbough, LHP, Grade B: Excellent ceiling. I cannot prove why objectively, but I worry a bit about his arm. Needs sharper command too.

7) Craig Kimbrel, RHP, Grade B: I hesitate to grade relief prospects this highly, but I can’t ignore his early dominance.

8) Gorkys Hernandez, OF, Grade B-: Would like to see more power, other skills coming along. from John Sickels/BA

 

If KW's NOT going after pitching (assuming the deal is Dye/Jenks, NOT Dye/Vazquez or even Vazquez/Jenks)....then you would have to say it's going to be Schafer, although obviously KW would target Heyward. Then you have Flowers (we need some more catching prospects, although it seems he's a little like Armstrong, good bad and questionable D, we actually need the opposite) and Hernandez.

 

The other players that figure in here are Gregor Blanco (for CF, 100+ AB's for ATL last season) and Kelly Johnson. I think Heyward and Escobar have to be ruled "off limits" by management.

 

The problem with all these trades is it's VERY difficult to pry away a Top 1-2-3 prospect, but getting someone like Schafer is a very questionable move for KW.

 

Soriano and Gonzalez are interesting names here...Lillibridge, not sure he does it for me either, like Johnson...although Johnson seems to have higher upside at this point. Maybe we should try Betemit for awhile before we fall in love with any other Braves' phenoms.

Edited November 27, 2008 by caulfield12

[R.J.]

It's already been alluded to, but the negotiations in the Peavy deal did not include Hanson or Heyward, so expecting the White Sox to snag either of those guys in a deal for a lesser player would be unrealistic.

 

Also, after hearing some of the recent comments KW has released, it looks like we're in full payroll cutting mode here.

[joejoesox]

It's already been alluded to, but the negotiations in the Peavy deal did not include Hanson or Heyward, so expecting the White Sox to snag either of those guys in a deal for a lesser player would be unrealistic.

 

Also, after hearing some of the recent comments KW has released, it looks like we're in full payroll cutting mode here.

 

Firesale after winning the division, nice.

[caulfield12]

Firesale after winning the division, nice.

 

 

Firesales are auctioning off players like Lofton, Durham, Howry, etc.

 

We're hardly doing that, unless you consider when we traded Freddy Garcia and Brandon McCarthy to be "fire sales." I certainly didn't. There's no reason you can't get younger, more athletic and have a more flexible payroll at the same time.

 

Our best team in the last four years was the one with clearly the lowest payroll. Did we have a "fire sale" to get rid of Carlos Lee, Valentin and Ordonez. I think not, although some consider the Lee for Pods deal exactly that kind of trade.

[joejoesox]

Firesales are auctioning off players like Lofton, Durham, Howry, etc.

 

We're hardly doing that, unless you consider when we traded Freddy Garcia and Brandon McCarthy to be "fire sales." I certainly didn't. There's no reason you can't get younger, more athletic and have a more flexible payroll at the same time.

 

Our best team in the last four years was the one with clearly the lowest payroll. Did we have a "fire sale" to get rid of Carlos Lee, Valentin and Ordonez. I think not, although some consider the Lee for Pods deal exactly that kind of trade.

 

i fully understand that it isn't always the players that cost the most money, that are the most talented or best fit for your club

 

with that said, i don't see how trading somebody like Jermaine for a handful of prospects and/or middle/end of the rotation starters makes our team any better

Jermaine is the second best run producer in our lineup (assuming Carlos has another stellar year in 2009, also assuming Jermaine has a 2006/2008 type of year in '09), shipping him off for guys that aren't ready for the pros, or aren't pretty much a sure-thing, obviously doesn't make this team better for 2009, it makes it worse

 

the only way i can see freeing up a bunch of payroll, in trades for lower caliber players or prospects, helping the team is to reinvest that money you are saving into a free-agent like Furcal or Hudson (Alexei to CF)

 

trading guys like Jermaine just to free up money to chop the payroll is what a fire-sale basically is, and what I'm hoping Kenny isn't doing

[beck72]

If the Braves were looking to sell low on Brandon Jones, the sox should go after him. He's a corner OFer without much power-likely only a 10 HR a year guy. NL teams need their corner to produce power. Yet the sox could have him replace Dye. His minor league numbers have been decent- .283/.360/.456. Yet his MLB #'s have been poor-.252/.295/.370. Granted he's only had 135 Ab's in the bigs. But ATL does have Jordan Schafer who'll be in AAA to start 2009 and their top prospect OFer Jayson Hayward who's supposed to fly through their system.

 

If the sox got Jones, they'd still have to acquire a leadoff man. Willy Taveras still keeps coming back to mind for CF. A defense of Jones, Taveras and Quentin would be a definite upgrade.

 

More than likely, a CFer from the Braves major league roster would have to be included. Josh Anderson, 26, hit well in his callup [.294/.338/.426] and has speed. Though he doesn't hit LHP. He was acquired from Houston and 2008 was his 1st yr with ATL, likely will be kept. Gregor Blanco, 24, has OBP skills and hit leadoff in over 200 ab's. He hit .251/.366/.309 in his rookie year in 430 total AB's. Both he and Anderson are LHB. Blanco hits both LHP and RHP. Also, AA is where the Braves have the pitchers, [so one of those not named Tommy Hanson]. Guys like Kris Medlen, 23 [who has been lights out in the AFL] Todd Redmond, 23, though a FB pitcher, and James Parr, 22, another FB pitcher [who threw in the bigs] seem to have upside.

 

A deal like Blanco, Medlen [both of whom could help in 2009-Medlen probably in the bullpen] and a decent A ball prospect wouldn't be the worst deal. Though I'd look at Jones first.

 

[beck72]

Just as an aside to Brandon Jones, ATL may look at him like the Sox with Josh Fields prior to 2008. Trading a year too late is far worse than trading a year early.

in 2007 in AA and AAA- .295/.367/.490

in 2008 in AAA-.260/.343/.405 [and .252/.295/.370 in the bigs].

 

Jones doesn't show much improvement in 2009 and his stock will drop dramatically, ala Fields.

 

Jones is supposed to hit for a solid avg. and get on base, even if he doesn't hit for power. That would be a good fit going forward, esp as he can hit from the left side

 

Here's a link to Prospects blog that had Jones 3rd prior to 2008 season, behind both Heyward and Schafer. I like the defense comment-and the scrappy approach to hitting. Doesn't that sound like Kenny's type of guy

 

http://diamondcutter.wordpress.com/2008/01...atlanta-braves/

Edited November 27, 2008 by beck72

[GreatScott82]

Firesales are auctioning off players like Lofton, Durham, Howry, etc.

 

We're hardly doing that, unless you consider when we traded Freddy Garcia and Brandon McCarthy to be "fire sales." I certainly didn't. There's no reason you can't get younger, more athletic and have a more flexible payroll at the same time.

 

Our best team in the last four years was the one with clearly the lowest payroll. Did we have a "fire sale" to get rid of Carlos Lee, Valentin and Ordonez. I think not, although some consider the Lee for Pods deal exactly that kind of trade.

Exactly! And lets not forget with all the money KW will be saving by trading some of our high salaried players, he will likely use to add other pieces to make the 2009 as competitive as possible. I know for awhile he has been interested in Abreu. Raul Ibanez is another interesting name available. So not only is he going to use that money to bring over more pieces (such as a SP or maybe even Furcal for SS ) He is reloading the farm system back to what it was back in 2003-2004 status...

 

Beckham, Danks, Viciedo, Poreda, Marquez and possibly guys like Bailey, Hanson or even Heyward would be a hell of a start....

 

Im pretty sure if the traded Vazquez and Dye for prospects, our payroll would be around the $75 million dollar range. That would give KW about 25-40 million to use on free agency or he could just use it on free agency in 2010 while seeing what he has in Anderson and Fields one last time in 2009.

[JPN366]

You mean Jordan "HGsHaf" Shafer? Me and my friends gave him hell when he was in town to play B'ham. Hope he wouldn't play for the Barons. That would be embarassing. But, he can rake.

[scenario]

although it seems he's a little like Armstrong, good bat and questionable D, we actually need the opposite

 

Not sure where the idea came from that Armstrong is bad defensively.

 

He was picked the top defensive catcher in the Southern League this year by managers in that league.