Cabrera's Fate, what do you prefer?

[Marky Mark]

Considering he's a type A free agent, I'd prefer that we get someone else's picks. Probably because of the excitement of mystery in early draft picks.

[sayitaintso]

I would prefer the picks, but i wouldn't mind if he accepted arbitration.

[103 mph screwball]

I want him to play for the Twins. There are a lot of players I don't like on the Twins.

[Kalapse]

If Orlando Cabrera accepts arbitration he'll be making close to twice what he's worth in 2009, that bothers me and doesn't really help the club and their apparent budget constraints. Also, until someone says otherwise, I believe the Sox would not be allowed to trade Cabrera until June 16th, 2009 unless he gives his written consent to the trade. So Orlando Cabrera, an underwhelming major league shortstop who may not be well liked in the Sox clubhouse would be making ~$11M dollars with a full no trade clause. This is unacceptable.

 

So in conclusion: lets pray he declines.

[caulfield12]

If I were Hahn and it went that far, I would put my figure around $9.5 million.

 

OC would counter around $11, you're right. Then it would be a battle to assail his pedestrian OPS and OBP numbers.

 

They would counter with the fact that he was being asked to bat out of his natural 2 spot and that he was 2nd in the GG voting for SS.

 

Let's just hope the Dodgers give him at least $20 million over 2 years and he passes.

 

There's one more factor here, his pretty large ego. If his archenemy Renteria can be banished out of DET and still get an average of $9.25 million for two seasons, Cabrera will want to one-up him to show he's still the best/most valuable Colombian SS.

Edited December 6, 2008 by caulfield12

[Marky Mark]

If I were Hahn and it went that far, I would put my figure around $9.5 million.

 

OC would counter around $11, you're right. Then it would be a battle to assail his pedestrian OPS and OBP numbers.

 

They would counter with the fact that he was being asked to bat out of his natural 2 spot and that he was 2nd in the GG voting for SS.

 

Let's just hope the Dodgers give him at least $20 million over 2 years and he passes.

 

There's one more factor here, his pretty large ego. If his archenemy Renteria can be banished out of DET and still get an average of $9.25 million for two seasons, Cabrera will want to one-up him to show he's still the best/most valuable Colombian SS.

 

I'm not too familiar with how arbitration works, but would an arbitor really be naive enough think that the GG voting has any accuracy toward a player's defensive skills? I would hope not, but yeah I'm sure you're right Caulfield that Lozano would try to claim that means anything.

[sox1844]

I'm not too familiar with how arbitration works, but would an arbitor really be naive enough think that the GG voting has any accuracy toward a player's defensive skills? I would hope not, but yeah I'm sure you're right Caulfield that Lozano would try to claim that means anything.

 

OK, reality is that baseball players play and sign for MONEY. This is their job.

[Balta1701]

I really want the Dodgers to sign him.

[Wanne]

Hey...if somebody else signs him...super...we get 2 picks. If he accepts arb and is with us for '09 I'm fine with that too. He's a very good player and this team is better with him at SS to tell you the truth. Nobody here knows how Lexi will be at short...and for that matter how Getz or any of the other combos would be on an everyday basis. The biggest thing is a leadoff hitter...plain and simple. I'd be very happy with Taveras leading off in CF and OC batting second.

 

Hell...if you think hanging on to OC will keep Beckham down...I'm not so sure Lexi wouldn't be a better CF than a SS. Don't get me wrong..I'm not a huge OC fan by any means...but this team is better right now WITH him on it.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I'd like to see him back. If I knew we could get something nice for him either with picks or a trade, then I wouldn't be too opposed.

[greg775]

Since we already got rid of Javy and Boone and Swish, I wouldn't mind if we kept my fourth least favorite player in OC. I think he at short and Lexi at second is the way to go. I'm hopeful Lexi will excel at his natural position, short, but he was pretty darn comfortable at second. OC booted some routine balls. I could envision lanky Lexi booting more.

[elrockinMT]

I would have to argue with Kalapse and say that OC is not an "underwhelming" SS. He is a great defensive player and can hit. However, I don't think he is a good fit personalitywise on the Sox. If we bring him back where does all the moving around of Ramirez to SS and a new 2Bman? We will see 3/4th on our infield basically changing with OC gone and if he stays the only position different will be 3B. I would rather see the draft picks come our way.

[BaseballNick]

If Orlando Cabrera accepts arbitration he'll be making close to twice what he's worth in 2009, that bothers me and doesn't really help the club and their apparent budget constraints. Also, until someone says otherwise, I believe the Sox would not be allowed to trade Cabrera until June 16th, 2009 unless he gives his written consent to the trade. So Orlando Cabrera, an underwhelming major league shortstop who may not be well liked in the Sox clubhouse would be making ~$11M dollars with a full no trade clause. This is unacceptable.

 

So in conclusion: lets pray he declines.

 

 

Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene are underwhelming major league shortstops. Orlando Cabrera is not.

[Dick Allen]

Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene are underwhelming major league shortstops. Orlando Cabrera is not.

And ironically there have been posts on this board in favor of acquiring either of the names mentioned.

[WilliamTell]

Don't come back please, I want the picks.

[Kalapse]

I would have to argue with Kalapse and say that OC is not an "underwhelming" SS. He is a great defensive player and can hit. However, I don't think he is a good fit personalitywise on the Sox. If we bring him back where does all the moving around of Ramirez to SS and a new 2Bman? We will see 3/4th on our infield basically changing with OC gone and if he stays the only position different will be 3B. I would rather see the draft picks come our way.

He's a good defensive SS, calling him great is a slap to the face of the real great shortstops like Omar Vizquel back when he could run. Orlando can hit a little but not very well and with incredible inconsistency (would it kill him to have 5 or 6 "good" months rather than 3 horrible, 2 great and 1 good?).

 

I know he just barely outperformed some of his career averages (his SLG% was 28 points below his career norm while playing in a hitters) but that's mostly because his career averages kind of suck, he's been a pretty bad hitter for most of his career.

 

Assuming Alexei can play some decent defense at short (which he supposedly can) I wouldn't be shocked to see Chris Getz put up equal offensive output to Orlando Cabrera. Achieving a .700 OPS isn't all that hard.

[Wanne]

I would have to argue with Kalapse and say that OC is not an "underwhelming" SS. He is a great defensive player and can hit. However, I don't think he is a good fit personalitywise on the Sox. If we bring him back where does all the moving around of Ramirez to SS and a new 2Bman? We will see 3/4th on our infield basically changing with OC gone and if he stays the only position different will be 3B. I would rather see the draft picks come our way.

 

In defense of OC...and this probably applies to Swish too they were brought in here for some leadership and to bring an air of "looseness" to the clubhouse which couldn't get a greased BB through their asses the last few years. When both arrived there were heavy expectations on them and they really didn't know exactly how there were supposed to/or expected to act instead of just being themselves and relax. I think we would see a different OC is he comes back...or was just shown a little love. Swish...a good chance he could have been different...but with that headcase you never know. Of the two...it's more likely OC would fit it much better and be relaxed at the start of the year. Seems like everything's on hold until the OC situation is resolved.

 

One example...especially in Swish's case...that goofy-ass marketing campaign with him doing "the worm"...pretty much condoning being a goofball...which seemed to annoy everybody towards the end of the year.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Wanne

[Kalapse]

Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene are underwhelming major league shortstops. Orlando Cabrera is not.

No Bobby Crosby is a disappointment who could never stay healthy or prove that he can hit major league pitching and Khalil Greene is a defensive whiz with incredible power potential/production (when he's away from Petco). I think "underwhelming" suits Cabrera perfectly, you watch him play enough and soon you realize that he really does nothing all that well (aside from durability) and yet there are people here who would love to have him back at $11M which I just find absurd.

[Dick Allen]

Khalil Greene is a defensive whiz with incredible power potential/production (when he's away from Petco).

Please explain his .542 road OPS in 2008. As long as you're ripping Cabrera for being "underwhelming" in 2008, I'm sure you'll have a reason for the absolutely pathetic numbers Greene put up away from Petco. Juan Uribe has gotten on base at a better clip than Mr. Greene the past 2 seasons.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Kalapse]

Please explain his .542 road OPS in 2008. As long as you're ripping Cabrera for being "underwhelming" in 2008, I'm sure you'll have a reason for the absolutely pathetic numbers Greene put up away from Petco. Juan Uribe has gotten on base at a better clip than Mr. Greene the past 2 seasons.

He sucked last year. I never said I wanted him on my team but I can see why someone would gamble on a 29 year old who plays great defense and will probably hit a ton of homeruns/doubles, assuming last season was just a down year. He's not going to walk, I think that's pretty obvious (though over the course of his career he's proven he can do it better than Uribe) but at least he's done 2 other things incredibly well since coming into the league. SS more than any other position you tend to look past certain deficiencies in a player's game if he's going to play great D.

 

Assuming 2008 was an anomaly and just a down year he's probably going to be a pretty good player for the Cardinalsin 2009, assuming he stays healthy.

 

And Cabrera's underwhelming 2008 was right in line with his career norms while Greene's 2008 was well below his.

[BaseballNick]

Let me try this again.

 

Nick Swisher's 2008 - underwhelming

Paul Konerko's 2008 - underwhelming

 

Orlando Cabrera in 2008 - performed to expectations

 

OC is not a flashy player. He was brought here to be the #2 hitter and had he hit 2nd, he'd have been everything we expected from him. He played very good defense, hit for good contact, and played in 161 games at the 2nd most physically demanding position on the field. I don't like OC the person, but he did what he was brought here to do. He's a Type A because he's a good baseball player and a known commodity at a very important position.

 

[elrockinMT]

In defense of OC...and this probably applies to Swish too they were brought in here for some leadership and to bring an air of "looseness" to the clubhouse which couldn't get a greased BB through their asses the last few years. When both arrived there were heavy expectations on them and they really didn't know exactly how there were supposed to/or expected to act instead of just being themselves and relax. I think we would see a different OC is he comes back...or was just shown a little love. Swish...a good chance he could have been different...but with that headcase you never know. Of the two...it's more likely OC would fit it much better and be relaxed at the start of the year. Seems like everything's on hold until the OC situation is resolved.

 

One example...especially in Swish's case...that goofy-ass marketing campaign with him doing "the worm"...pretty much condoning being a goofball...which seemed to annoy everybody towards the end of the year.

 

 

No argument here. I think you are correct as to why they were brought to the Sox.