Sox and Brewers talking Jenks....

[SoxFan1]

Damn Salome would be very, very nice. Then Flowers can make the 1B/DH move. From what I've read, Salome is up there as having one of the best cannons at the catching position in the minors and a damn good athlete. And Gallardo is super sexy, so I know he's not going anywhere.

Just for no reason, imagining the potential of a Danks/Floyd/Buehrle/Gallardo/Bailey rotation makes me tingly...

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Mets' bullpen sucked outside of Wagner. That's an unfair comparison. Thornton, Linebrink, and Dotel are all better than anyone else the Mets had.

 

Um, OK? It sucked a lot more without him. And it was the main reason the Mets choked again. You don't trade Bobby unless you have a chance to legitimately upgrade at another position, and you believe you have a suitable replacement/replacements to plug into the closer role.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Just for no reason, imagining the potential of a Danks/Floyd/Buehrle/Gallardo/Bailey rotation makes me tingly...

 

We'd pretty much be the envy of every team in baseball. That much sick/young/cheap talent in one rotation would be unheard of.

[SoxFan1]

We'd pretty much be the envy of every team in baseball. That much sick/young/cheap talent in one rotation would be unheard of.

And in a year or 2, you deal Buehrle and sub him out for the hopefully-reached-potential of Aaron Poreda?

 

^ Blasphemy.

[SoxAce]

Just for no reason, imagining the potential of a Danks/Floyd/Buehrle/Gallardo/Bailey rotation makes me tingly...

 

No kidding. If they reach their 'true' potentials (esp. Bailey) then come, at the earliest 2010, Buehrle would probably be, at best, the #4 starting pitcher on his own team..

 

For the first time in a long, long time, the youth and the prospects in our system makes me giddy (and giggady) Futuresox would be insanely good to read up on (if they ever get back on their s*** )

[DukeNukeEm]

The problem is that the Brewers, if they can't bring back either Sabathia or Sheets, it just doesn't make any sense to bring back an elite closer whose salary is projected around $5 million for 2009 and even higher for 2010 and 2011. In the process, they possibly lose him for one of the best middle infield prospects in the game that would cheap/affordable to a "rebuilding" team trying to compete with the Cubs and Cardinals. Also, I think they would learn from the $10 million they wasted on Gagne (of course, one could argue that paying half that for Jenks is much more logical). They did "okay" with Salomon Torres as the closer, but there's lots of other cheaper options out there like Brandon Lyon, Juan Cruz, Jose Valverde, etc., that wouldn't cost nearly as much as Jenks to acquire.

 

Sure, trying to dump Hardy would make sense, but you don't trade Top 10 MLB middle infield prospects (especially at SS) for a closer, unless it's Mariano Rivera in his prime or someone like that.

Yea but Escobar isn't something they need, and I surely wouldn't value him over J.J. Hardy if I were the Brewers. Hardy leads all MLB SS except Hanley Ramirez in HR's the past two seasons, but the Brewers should value Alcides Escobar over him? This is insane.

 

The Brewers aren't trying to rebuild either, they might have the best lineup in the NL and Sheets-Gallardo-Parra is a pretty good top of the rotation.

[caulfield12]

But did you also think the White Sox would shop Buehrle, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Jenks, Javy, Swisher and AJ this offseason too?

 

I just think that Hardy's power numbers are respectable, but that many believe Escobar has a nice upside and they need to invest that money that Hardy will start making into someone better than Jeff Suppan...or investing in Japan, DR, Venezuela, etc.

 

Quoting HR statistics alone doesn't tell the WHOLE story. Reyes is 5X the ballplayer Hardy is, but he has fewer homers. It's like saying Dye is clearly the best MLB RFer over the last four seasons because he has the most homers. Not sure I am willing to go along with that, because defensive ability is also important, especially at SS.

Edited December 7, 2008 by caulfield12

[Jimmywins1]

Escobar was just rated like the 6th or 7th best prospect in baseball, we're not getting him.

[knightni]

And in a year or 2, you deal Buehrle and sub him out for the hopefully-reached-potential of Aaron Poreda?

 

^ Blasphemy.

 

I, for one, want Buehrle to retire as a White Sox.

[Princess Dye]

 

 

Poreda's a reliever, c'mon. Let's not pretend here, he has a fastball and some sink.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Princess Dye

[R.J.]

Saying that losing Sabathia and Sheets would give the Brewers no reason to compete in 2009, or at least dimish their need of a big time closer, is kind of a loaded statement. Do you think they believe they aren't going to compete? I think that losing those two arms only makes Gallardo and Parra more essential to their team (meaning they aren't being traded, sorry).

 

Mat Gamel is their third baseman in waiting. They don't really have a decent option there besides him.

 

They have three infielders - Hardy, Weeks, and Escobar. Now which one would you be willing to trade? If you think it's Escobar you're just off base. He's the one they're trying to bring into the fold. Rickie Weeks is the odd man out here. His numbers have nowhere reflected his talent, and he lost playing time last year due to nagging injuries and Ray Durham (!!!). He's going to be moved if someone wants him.

 

So take those guys (Gallardo, Escobar, Gamel, Parra) out of the picture, as well as Corey Hart, and then see if there's anything we could use from them in a Jenks trade.

 

I'm betting those are the guys we asked about. I'm betting the Brewers would rather part with Weeks, Hall, Gwynn, Jefress, and Gillespie.

 

It's been alluded to, but the closer market is still wide open. No one has gone anywhere. Besides the free agents (K-Rod, Fuentes, Wood, Hoffman, Isringhahaha sorry) there are plenty of teams willing to move their 9th inning guys (Jenks, Putz, Valverde) so the market is saturated. Bobby's not worth as much now as he might be if some team in need of a closer gets outbid on other guys. Trading him now would be settling for a smaller package than he's worth (Swisher).

[DukeNukeEm]

But did you also think the White Sox would shop Buehrle, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Jenks, Javy, Swisher and AJ this offseason too?

 

I just think that Hardy's power numbers are respectable, but that many believe Escobar has a nice upside and they need to invest that money that Hardy will start making into someone better than Jeff Suppan...or investing in Japan, DR, Venezuela, etc.

 

Quoting HR statistics alone doesn't tell the WHOLE story. Reyes is 5X the ballplayer Hardy is, but he has fewer homers. It's like saying Dye is clearly the best MLB RFer over the last four seasons because he has the most homers. Not sure I am willing to go along with that, because defensive ability is also important, especially at SS.

Hardy is also pretty good defensively (he isn't Escobar, but still good) and he's been improving dramatically over the past 2 seasons. His OPS has gone up every season over the past 3 years and even if he's hit his ceiling that would still make him a top 10 SS in baseball. You dont kick a cheap, young top 10 player at his position out of town for any prospect unless it's Ken Griffey Jr. or ARod.

 

The chances of J.J. Hardy regressing into a .250/.300/.400 type player are pretty slim and it would definitely be a much larger risk to give Escobar the SS position than Hardy. The Brewers have only 3 offensive starters who are below league average in OPS, I'm sure they'd like to keep it that way.

 

Also, the guys the White Sox are shopping are getting thrown out there for a reason. Other than Buehrle, and we only shopped Mark when he had a couple months left on his contract, nobody we are looking at trading now has anywhere near the value of a J.J. Hardy. I've heard nothing about us trading away AJ Pierzynski.

Edited December 7, 2008 by DukeNukeEm

[caulfield12]

A rival GM revealed weeks ago the White Sox were shopping every decent-sized contract they had (and maybe he wasn’t exaggerating that much), and so far Kenny Williams has traded away Nick Swisher and Javier Vazquez, or almost $17 million off 2009 alone. from yahoosports.com

[SkokieSox]

A rival GM revealed weeks ago the White Sox were shopping every decent-sized contract they had (and maybe he wasn’t exaggerating that much), and so far Kenny Williams has traded away Nick Swisher and Javier Vazquez, or almost $17 million off 2009 alone. from yahoosports.com

 

That sounds like an exaggeration, I surely doubt MB or AJ were shopped. We don't even have a backup catcher, let alone someone to start everyday besides AJ. Sounds farfetched, even coming from "a rival GM."

[caulfield12]

Agreed....trading AJ and Buehrle would be the least likely or pleasant options of any available to KW at this point in time...well, except for trading Quentin or Danks I guess.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

That sounds like an exaggeration, I surely doubt MB or AJ were shopped. We don't even have a backup catcher, let alone someone to start everyday besides AJ. Sounds farfetched, even coming from "a rival GM."

That sounds like someone's way of saying that the Sox were shopping Javy, Swisher, Jenks, Dye, and Paulie.

 

Besides those already traded, it makes sense to shop Dye and Paulie for the right deals since we need pitching. Quentin's emergence coupled with Thome, who can't be moved anyway, gives the Sox one of the most powerful 3-4 combos around, and there are other guys (Alexei, Fields, Viciedo???) capable of producing as 5 and 6 hitters. It's just that if Paulie is dealt we'd need a 1B. It also makes sense to shop Jenks because he's going to get very expensive very fast and we have internal options (Thornton, Poreda, Dotel, Linebrink) that other teams just don't have.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'm betting those are the guys we asked about. I'm betting the Brewers would rather part with Weeks, Hall, Gwynn, Jefress, and Gillespie.

I'd love to get Jeffress and I'd deal Jenks for him straight up in a heartbeat, but that's pretty unlikely. We'd have to give up quite a bit more. Aside from him, that's a pretty uninspiring list.

 

Weeks is a terrible target IMO because of his injuries, K's, low batting average, and defense. And even if he does break out, he's arbitration eligible anyway so we'd just finish developing him just in time for him to bolt to another team.

 

Hall = no thanks. I'd rather start Betemit in all honesty simply because he's cheaper, and I don't want to start Betemit.

 

Gwynn = 4th OF who Ozzie would play everyday.

 

Gillespie doesn't thrill me either. He's the best player here aside from Jeffress but he doesn't seem to have the type of power the Sox typically go for as far as corner OF'ers.

 

The best realistic deal with the Brewers IMO would be some of their further away top prospects with higher ceilings, like Braddock, Nieves, and Gindl or something. It doesn't help the team this year, but I like deals like that. You have a better chance of getting a special player, and we have the depth to cover Jenks' loss IMO.

[SoxFan1]

I, for one, want Buehrle to retire as a White Sox.

Oh me too, but I'm just speaking in hypotheticals where everything would pan out. Now that I think about it, why not trade Jenks and make MB the closer in that situation?

[zenryan]

Prince Fielder for Jenks...those would be heavy talks.

 

I'm here all week.

 

 

 

made me laugh!

[southsider2k5]

But did you also think the White Sox would shop Buehrle, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Jenks, Javy, Swisher and AJ this offseason too?

 

I just think that Hardy's power numbers are respectable, but that many believe Escobar has a nice upside and they need to invest that money that Hardy will start making into someone better than Jeff Suppan...or investing in Japan, DR, Venezuela, etc.

 

Quoting HR statistics alone doesn't tell the WHOLE story. Reyes is 5X the ballplayer Hardy is, but he has fewer homers. It's like saying Dye is clearly the best MLB RFer over the last four seasons because he has the most homers. Not sure I am willing to go along with that, because defensive ability is also important, especially at SS.

 

Wait, when were AJ and MB shopped? I totally missed those rumors/stories.