De La Hoya vs. Pacquiao

[The Critic]

This surprised me, I have to admit:

 

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/2008_/1229009584.php

 

Source: ESPN.com

 

-- Earlier this year, there were rumors that boxing legend Oscar De La Hoya would be appearing at WrestleMania 24 along with Floyd Mayweather. It turns out that boxing's Golden Boy didn't have to appear at WrestleMania to be on the biggest PPV event of the year. While WrestleMania drew roughly 1.1 million PPV buys, last weekend's De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao fight topped it with 1.25 million buys. The breakdown was 680,000 buys via cable and 570,000 via satellite. "When it's all counted up, it will end up at 1.35 or 1.4 million," Pacquiao's promoter Bob Arum stated.

 

I wasn't too surprised by this, but I thought maybe the buyrate would even be a little higher:

 

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/2008_/1228940708.php

 

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

 

-- While the UFC has not issued any statements regarding the Pay-Per-View buyrate figure for UFC 91: Couture vs. Lesnar, the internal word is that the event drew close to 1 million PPV buys. This is around what UFC President Dana White predicted and would be considered a big success for the company.

 

 

 

 

[LosMediasBlancas]

You dont watch much MMA then. You not only have to be an extremely rounded fighter to excel, but you must be the master of several different ways of actually WINNING a fight. As far as slowly tearing away your opponent, you just havent had enough experience watching it to know when thats going on. For example, have you see a good ground game guy trying to chip away at a striker to get him to the ground? How about two experienced JJ guys on the ground advancing and defending techniques as well as trying to loosen up the opponent to be able to sink in a choke. There is much more strategy in GOOD MMA than in boxing. As far as round after round after round, these days, not a whole lot of people want to see a fight taken to the cards like boxing seems to do time after time.

 

You're right, I don't watch much, maybe three fights a week, max. That's because most MMA fights end how I described above.

I guess it just comes down to what you enjoy. Boxing is hurting right now, but I still want to see a 12 round fight because usually, the better fighter wins. In boxing, you can come back from making one mistake. A guy can take a few really good shots, even be knocked down and still have a chance to come back and win the fight. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

In MMA, a guy's hand slips because he's sweaty, suddenly he's in an arm bar, match over. It seems too flukey. Maybe that zero room for error is what fans enjoy.

I remember when MMA was becoming popular, people were calling it barbaric. Supporters of MMA said that boxing is far worse because a boxer has to keep coming out round after round, absorbing punches over a longer period of time. Well, exactly, that's how you know who wins a fight. Not by who strikes first, but by who struck the most and was still on his feet at the end.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Yes! Mayweather wants PacMan. Please Boxing Gods, let the stars align!

 

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/...wants_me_t.html

 

This would be a very interesting match up that would end in one of two ways: Either Mayweather gets knocked the f*** out, or Mayweather wins on points. FM's weird style might give MP some trouble, but if MP catches him, he will put FM to sleep. If MP can't figure out his style, FM will win by a ton of points, but won't leave a blemish on MP's face.

FM won't beat him the way I want to see MP figured out and beaten.

[The Critic]

The heavyweights ruined boxing for me. I get so frustrated watching so many "fights" turn into jab/jab/hug.

12 rounds of walking in a circle and embracing gets boring almost immediately.

I know some will compare that to the ground game of MMA, but I see more going on in the takedown situations than I see in the clinching of boxing matches.

The best boxing is still fun to watch, but it seems like I never see the best boxing any more. Whenever I do happen to catch a fight (usually on Versus, it seems) there's more hugging than a family reunion.

[SoxFan562004]

The heavyweights ruined boxing for me. I get so frustrated watching so many "fights" turn into jab/jab/hug.

12 rounds of walking in a circle and embracing gets boring almost immediately.

I know some will compare that to the ground game of MMA, but I see more going on in the takedown situations than I see in the clinching of boxing matches.The best boxing is still fun to watch, but it seems like I never see the best boxing any more. Whenever I do happen to catch a fight (usually on Versus, it seems) there's more hugging than a family reunion.

There can be lay and pray fights (see some of Koschek's early fights and Bader's semi-final win on TUF) but there are some crazy technical ground fights that are extremely interesting. I trained a little BJJ, but that's not necessary to enjoy the ground game I will look at some message boards and recommend some fights. The Matt Horwich/Dan Miller fight from UFC 90 had some entertaining ground action and the first round of Wagney Fabiano / Tamura from the last WEC had some good ground work. Rewatch Big Nog/Timmy fight, it's a short example but when Nog gets him on the ground it is textbook BJJ ownage.

 

The Mir/Big Nog fight has a potential to have some sick ground work, but it could also stalemate and also I think Nog will want to keep it on the feet because IMO he has a good sized advantage there

[SoxFan562004]

This would be a very interesting match up that would end in one of two ways: Either Mayweather gets knocked the f*** out, or Mayweather wins on points. FM's weird style might give MP some trouble, but if MP catches him, he will put FM to sleep. If MP can't figure out his style, FM will win by a ton of points, but won't leave a blemish on MP's face.

FM won't beat him the way I want to see MP figured out and beaten.

I'd be very interested in a Hatton/Pac-Man fight, they are two of my favorite fighters and if its in Vegas I would probably head out there for it

[SoxFan562004]

This surprised me, I have to admit:

 

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/2008_/1229009584.php

 

Source: ESPN.com

 

-- Earlier this year, there were rumors that boxing legend Oscar De La Hoya would be appearing at WrestleMania 24 along with Floyd Mayweather. It turns out that boxing's Golden Boy didn't have to appear at WrestleMania to be on the biggest PPV event of the year. While WrestleMania drew roughly 1.1 million PPV buys, last weekend's De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao fight topped it with 1.25 million buys. The breakdown was 680,000 buys via cable and 570,000 via satellite. "When it's all counted up, it will end up at 1.35 or 1.4 million," Pacquiao's promoter Bob Arum stated.

 

I wasn't too surprised by this, but I thought maybe the buyrate would even be a little higher:

 

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/2008_/1228940708.php

 

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

 

-- While the UFC has not issued any statements regarding the Pay-Per-View buyrate figure for UFC 91: Couture vs. Lesnar, the internal word is that the event drew close to 1 million PPV buys. This is around what UFC President Dana White predicted and would be considered a big success for the company.

i think a weak economy actually may help PPV numbers. Once you get 3-4 people pitching in, even with beer and food, it becomes a relatively cheap night.

[RockRaines]

You're right, I don't watch much, maybe three fights a week, max. That's because most MMA fights end how I described above.

I guess it just comes down to what you enjoy. Boxing is hurting right now, but I still want to see a 12 round fight because usually, the better fighter wins. In boxing, you can come back from making one mistake. A guy can take a few really good shots, even be knocked down and still have a chance to come back and win the fight. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

In MMA, a guy's hand slips because he's sweaty, suddenly he's in an arm bar, match over. It seems too flukey. Maybe that zero room for error is what fans enjoy.

I remember when MMA was becoming popular, people were calling it barbaric. Supporters of MMA said that boxing is far worse because a boxer has to keep coming out round after round, absorbing punches over a longer period of time. Well, exactly, that's how you know who wins a fight. Not by who strikes first, but by who struck the most and was still on his feet at the end.

MMA in the beginning was barbaric but is now mostly very skilled fighters who are experts at 4 or more fighting techniques. They still roll out the haymaker flukey fights like Kimbo and the last PPV with old man river and WWF's best.

 

In your example above though, there are many outcomes, do you know the arm bar defense? Are you good on your back, in guard, half guard, are you giving up side control. Is the guy possibly a Mui Thai fighter? Do I have to know how to defend the thai clinch? There are so many factors in becoming a very good MMA fighter that other sports just dont have. I would recommend watching some Ultimate fighter on spike to see how guys train to survive in MMA, but also pay attention to the non PPV fights, where you can find alot of skilled guys without the hype.

[SoxFan562004]

MMA in the beginning was barbaric but is now mostly very skilled fighters who are experts at 4 or more fighting techniques. They still roll out the haymaker flukey fights like Kimbo and the last PPV with old man river and WWF's best.

In your example above though, there are many outcomes, do you know the arm bar defense? Are you good on your back, in guard, half guard, are you giving up side control. Is the guy possibly a Mui Thai fighter? Do I have to know how to defend the thai clinch? There are so many factors in becoming a very good MMA fighter that other sports just dont have. I would recommend watching some Ultimate fighter on spike to see how guys train to survive in MMA, but also pay attention to the non PPV fights, where you can find alot of skilled guys without the hype.

Rock, I love you as a poster man, but I disagree with you including Lesnar/Couture in the same sentence as Kimbo. You can make a strong argument that the fight shouldn't of been for the belt and they should of just kept Nog's as the only HW belt, but Randy and Lesnar are far and away more legit than Kimbo.

 

Lesnar was an NCAA champ, that is impressive and right up there with the wrestling credentials of many of the top fighters. Randy hadn't fought for a year, but beating Sylvia and Gonzaga were two quality wins.

 

Was the match rushed and overhyped? Yes, I would agree, but its a busniess and it worked since prelim PPV numbers are floating around 800k to 1m, but it's not in the same league as Kimbo

[RockRaines]

Rock, I love you as a poster man, but I disagree with you including Lesnar/Couture in the same sentence as Kimbo. You can make a strong argument that the fight shouldn't of been for the belt and they should of just kept Nog's as the only HW belt, but Randy and Lesnar are far and away more legit than Kimbo.

 

Lesnar was an NCAA champ, that is impressive and right up there with the wrestling credentials of many of the top fighters. Randy hadn't fought for a year, but beating Sylvia and Gonzaga were two quality wins.

 

Was the match rushed and overhyped? Yes, I would agree, but its a busniess and it worked since prelim PPV numbers are floating around 800k to 1m, but it's not in the same league as Kimbo

Thats fine, I just dont consider either one of those guys in the top half of MMA fighters is all. Couture is unbelievable over the hill and Lesnar really doesnt have a very well rounded game. Part of the problem is that their division just isnt as good or deep as some of the lighter guys. I didnt mean to equate them with Kimbo in the sense that you took it.

[LosMediasBlancas]

MMA in the beginning was barbaric but is now mostly very skilled fighters who are experts at 4 or more fighting techniques. They still roll out the haymaker flukey fights like Kimbo and the last PPV with old man river and WWF's best.

 

In your example above though, there are many outcomes, do you know the arm bar defense? Are you good on your back, in guard, half guard, are you giving up side control. Is the guy possibly a Mui Thai fighter? Do I have to know how to defend the thai clinch? There are so many factors in becoming a very good MMA fighter that other sports just dont have. I would recommend watching some Ultimate fighter on spike to see how guys train to survive in MMA, but also pay attention to the non PPV fights, where you can find alot of skilled guys without the hype.

 

The only MMA I watch is on Spike.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I'd be very interested in a Hatton/Pac-Man fight, they are two of my favorite fighters and if its in Vegas I would probably head out there for it

 

I remember Hatton from way back in the day. He hasn't turned out to be that fighter I was hoping he'd be. Hatton is a slow brawler with no defense. His only advantage might be that he's always moving forward and controlling the tempo. I still think Pac Man would beat his ass.

Edited December 12, 2008 by LosMediasBlancas

[JuiceCruz16]

I remember Hatton from way back in the day. He hasn't turned out to be that fighter I was hoping he'd be. Hatton is a slow brawler with no defense. His only advantage might be that he's always moving forward and controlling the tempo. I still think Pac Man would beat his ass.

I agree Hatton is a brawler with limited overall skills, he only has the proverbial punchers chance against Pac man. PBF on the otherhand would be a solid favorite in my opinion over Pac man. I can't see Pac man hurting Floyd and Floyd would probably be able to slice Manny up (he has been know to cut in the past) . Pac would rather war with his opponant and Floyd doesn't have to do that, so why would he. Floyd is quicker and the fact that Manny is a southpaw wouldn't be as much of a problem as it was for DeLa Hoya with those straight lefts landing right down the pipe on Oscar all night.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I agree Hatton is a brawler with limited overall skills, he only has the proverbial punchers chance against Pac man. PBF on the otherhand would be a solid favorite in my opinion over Pac man. I can't see Pac man hurting Floyd and Floyd would probably be able to slice Manny up (he has been know to cut in the past) . Pac would rather war with his opponant and Floyd doesn't have to do that, so why would he. Floyd is quicker and the fact that Manny is a southpaw wouldn't be as much of a problem as it was for DeLa Hoya with those straight lefts landing right down the pipe on Oscar all night.

 

Floyd would have to duck and weave all night in that weird style of his, but if Pacman tags him, it's over. Floyd's only hope is to beat him on points, he doesn't have enough punching power to ko Pac Man.

I had it all backwards, Manny only has one punch, a straight LEFT hand. My bad.

 

[SoxFanForever]

Floyd would have to duck and weave all night in that weird style of his, but if Pacman tags him, it's over. Floyd's only hope is to beat him on points, he doesn't have enough punching power to ko Pac Man.

I had it all backwards, Manny only has one punch, a straight LEFT hand. My bad.

Because PBF has been KO'ed by hard hitters so many times before? I don't get where you are coming up with this idea that MP is going to KO Mayweather if they fight. Also, if Mayweather doesn't have enough KO power to put down MP maybe you should watch the Hatton fight again.

Edited December 13, 2008 by SoxFanForever

[LosMediasBlancas]

Because PBF has been KO'ed by hard hitters so many times before? I don't get where you are coming up with this idea that MP is going to KO Mayweather if they fight. Also, if Mayweather doesn't have enough KO power to put down MP maybe you should watch the Hatton fight again.

 

That's not a knock against PBF, no one in the sport right now can take that straight shot from MP. That's why you have to outsmart him and box him. PBF is the kind of fighter who can get it done, unless he decides to go toe to toe with him. If he brawls, yes I think MP will put him to sleep.

Hatton doesn't impress me that much. He's had a couple of mediocre performances against no name guys who he should have KO'd.

[SoxFanForever]

That's not a knock against PBF, no one in the sport right now can take that straight shot from MP. That's why you have to outsmart him and box him. PBF is the kind of fighter who can get it done, unless he decides to go toe to toe with him. If he brawls, yes I think MP will put him to sleep.

Hatton doesn't impress me that much. He's had a couple of mediocre performances against no name guys who he should have KO'd.

Ooooh, gotcha. Fair enough. I do think PBF would be smart enough to actually box him and not try to get into a brawl with him. I just hope this fight happens so we know one way or the other and don't sit here wondering "what if..."

[Milkman delivers]

Because PBF has been KO'ed by hard hitters so many times before? I don't get where you are coming up with this idea that MP is going to KO Mayweather if they fight. Also, if Mayweather doesn't have enough KO power to put down MP maybe you should watch the Hatton fight again.

 

The dude knocked the Big Show right the f*** out. He's got some KO power.

[The Critic]

The dude knocked the Big Show right the f*** out. He's got some KO power.

Well, he busted Show's nose, but he didn't knock him out.

Show was kind of dumb to put his face out unprotected against a guy who doesn't know how to pull a punch.

[Milkman delivers]

Well, he busted Show's nose, but he didn't knock him out.

Show was kind of dumb to put his face out unprotected against a guy who doesn't know how to pull a punch.

 

Psst, it was a joke.

[SoxFanForever]

Psst, it was a joke.

[The Critic]

Psst, it was a joke.

 

I need to take my sense of humor to the shop.

[Milkman delivers]

IT'S STILL REAL TO CRITIC, DAMN IT!

[JuiceCruz16]

Floyd would have to duck and weave all night in that weird style of his, but if Pacman tags him, it's over. Floyd's only hope is to beat him on points, he doesn't have enough punching power to ko Pac Man.

I had it all backwards, Manny only has one punch, a straight LEFT hand. My bad.

From what previous fights of either fighter do you see Pac having the power to knockout "Pretty Boy". Pac can thump, but he's no Hatton or other guys for one punch power, and Floyd doesen't take many, but he has shown that a glass jaw is not one of his characteristics. Pac Man is a naturally smaller guy then most of PBF's past opponents as well.

Edited December 15, 2008 by JuiceCruz16

[JuiceCruz16]

That's not a knock against PBF, no one in the sport right now can take that straight shot from MP. That's why you have to outsmart him and box him. PBF is the kind of fighter who can get it done, unless he decides to go toe to toe with him. If he brawls, yes I think MP will put him to sleep.

Hatton doesn't impress me that much. He's had a couple of mediocre performances against no name guys who he should have KO'd.

I have to respectfully disagree. Manny does not put people "to sleep" very often. He wars for many rounds and gets tko's. (Barrera etc. much smaller guys) he will trade toe to toe and normally comes out getting the better, but he is not known for big punching. De La Hoya was never shakin' up by one punch the numerous straight lefts that landed right down the pipe was a cumlative effect that wore him down by the sheer number, but not "put to sleep" by his power. Oscar is much closer to Floyd's size as well, as opposed to the guys Pac Man has faced in the past. I would love to see the fight and I give Manny a shot, but not because he is stronger or more powerful then PBF. Edited December 15, 2008 by JuiceCruz16